KeithIsActuallyBad
You thrust your pelvis, huh!
No because now there's nowhere to fit him. The defense for better or worse is set without significant trades.
#FIRECHIA
- Thread starter Dawn Wall
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MessierII
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- Aug 10, 2011
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KeithIsActuallyBad
You thrust your pelvis, huh!
It wouldn't have hurt.
Doing nothing sure worked out well, didn't it?
Playing Eric Gryba was certainly a valid option though!
F: No McJesus, Drai, RNH, Pulju or Yammo (Ideally no Khaira - cheap and we developed him)
D: No Larsson, Klefbom, Nurse or Bear
G: No Talbot or Skinner
No 1st round picks
Other roster players like Lucic, Strome, Kassian, Cagiula, Benning, Sekera, Russel are fair game
Id be hesitant but ok with him dealing prospects like Jones, Benson and 2nd round picks as well.
RFAs still hold their value, should be no issue there.
Also who gave out those NMCs again? Cant complain about problems he created.
The Oilers gave him 3 entire seasons to do his job unrestrictedly. What makes you think things will change this season? Do you believe he will suddenly become a master of trading and build a powerhouse team? Or even fill 1-2 glaring holes? Not happening.
This season we will likely be a bubble team result then hopefully Chia will be gone and a competent GM can come in and start fixing the damage left by the clown who is PC
There are only five teams in the league with fewer total NMCs and NTCs than the Oilers. Find another criticism.
Everybody was happy with after his second season as GM.
Thankfully the team management show a little higher level evaluation skills than that. Open to hearing who you consider is a competent GM.
i'm no chia defender by any means and if the organization thinks they need to fire him then whatever, but please.... it's the same people out with their pitchforks for chia thatwere likely the same people who bi7ched about tambo, then when macT came along bi7ched about him and said tambo was probably better than macT... now chia's supposedly worse than those two... it's always just the flavor of the month for these people. again, not to say that chia has done a good job but just saying if we do ever get a new GM it'll be the same people calling for his head and probably wishing chia was the gm again. there's no rational thought. do people REALLy think there's an available gm out there who will 100% do a better job than chia?.... i mean i'm pretty sure all these people thought chia was going to do a better job than macT when chia got hired in 2015.... but now all of the sudden he's the worst gm in the history of the league.
gimme a break. i stated many times, his boston trades were not bad at all if you break it down. people blow it up. the only poor moves he made here were the reinhart deal and not doing enough additions in the summer of 2017. the hall trade was MUCH needed and he likely did a great job getting back what he did because likely no one really wanted to touch hall with a 10 foot pole back in 2016. overrated player with issues that could hurt your team.
syz
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- Jul 13, 2007
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It's almost like the flavor of the month is crap. Just replace "month" with "decade."
Tambo is still the worst, but Chia is catching up and still has time to work with. MacTavish wasn't good, but he gets a bit of a break considering he inherited Tambo's garbage and not, you know, McDavid.
oobga
Tier 2 Fan
- Aug 1, 2003
- 23,435
- 18,632
Clarkson saved MacT from being worse than Tambo. Took less to play for the Leafs. That would have been a worse contract than Lucic and would have lead to trading a golden boy even earlier. I bet MacT trades Hall first as well, because the org was obviously not happy with him and his inability to become Messier 2.0. There were leaks to guys like Dreger about how the org wasn't happy with Hall and how he wasn't what they thought he was going to be before Chia got here.
Chia still takes primary responsibility for the Hall trade, but there was probably zero dissenting voices in this org among multiple guys that take home millions of salary between them before it was done. The Org really soured on Hall before Chia got here.
This org is rotten to the core, and we're fooling ourselves if we thing just firing Chia will change much. The impatience that lead to the bad moves CHia made existed in the OBC as well. If MacT was still in charge after we got McDavid, he would have made "bold" moves as well, and he has blind spots just as bad as Chia. MacT would have been all in on Lucic just like CHia was, and like MacT was on Clarkson. MacT doesn't get D either, which he proved multiple times in his short GM time (Nikitin, Fayne = awesome. Petry = not worth "4M price point"). He would have loved getting Russell just the same.
Chia still takes primary responsibility for the Hall trade, but there was probably zero dissenting voices in this org among multiple guys that take home millions of salary between them before it was done. The Org really soured on Hall before Chia got here.
This org is rotten to the core, and we're fooling ourselves if we thing just firing Chia will change much. The impatience that lead to the bad moves CHia made existed in the OBC as well. If MacT was still in charge after we got McDavid, he would have made "bold" moves as well, and he has blind spots just as bad as Chia. MacT would have been all in on Lucic just like CHia was, and like MacT was on Clarkson. MacT doesn't get D either, which he proved multiple times in his short GM time (Nikitin, Fayne = awesome. Petry = not worth "4M price point"). He would have loved getting Russell just the same.
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Excellent post. Agree with you for the most part. I do think Chia is a little too quick with the buyouts though. The Korpikoski and Pouliot buyouts come to mind.
People saying that Chia is worse than MacT absolutely blow my mind.
Lots of stuff went bad last season. I'd really like to see Chia do his five years, but if he is fired after next season so be it.
At the end of the day it really comes down to the Hall trade ... still. Everybody who is vehement that the Hall deal was terrible is passionate that Chiarelli has to go ASAP. There is a wider range of opinions for those who aren't totally opposed to the Hall trade. You don't find many people who think the Hall trade was good, losing the best player but filled a hole or needed for other reasons who are passionate that Chiarelli needs to go now.
The Korpikoski buyout is an interesting point, because the buyout wasn't the big problem there. The trade that brought him in was the problem. Even if they thought Boyd Gordon was done, and it turns out he pretty much was, they brought in an extra year of salary in that deal that necessitated the buyout in the first place. It doesn't seem like a huge deal, but dead cap actually did cripple the Oilers when it came to the trade deadline in 16-17.
As for the pointless "who was worse" debate: Nobody this side of Glen Sather inherited a situation even close to what Peter Chiarelli did. That's the big thing here.
You won't find many people who think the Hall trade was "good" at all. Outside of Edmonton, among media and other fans, I would say there's a near 100% consensus that the trade was a disaster. You have a website like Leafs Nation saying shit like "Kyle Dubas should call up Peter Chiarelli IMMEDIATELY" because that's what they think of Peter Chiarelli.
The Gordon/Korpikoski trade is an interesting one and really shouldn't be on Chiarelli. He wouldn't have had much knowledge of Gordon's level of play. A random 3rd/4th liner on one of the other 29 teams in the league wouldn't command much attention from a GM. That would have been a trade on the scouting staff Chiarelli inherited. That's really all you can go on six weeks into the job.
You keep saying the part in bold apropos of it supporting your opinion somehow and nothing else. By your logic though, that means the strongest support for the trade was in Edmonton where you would expect to find the most insight into Hall's true nature.
There was a limited market for Hall in the summer of 2016. Even if this 'near 100% consensus' existed in the summer of 2016 then a number of people would have changed their view in the summer of 2017.
Seriously, who gives an eff about Leafs Nation. I read that piece though. It's written by some jackarse from Edmonton who hates Chiarelli and isn't too familiar with the rules of grammar. I can list a dozen posters in this thread who could have written that piece. Definitely doesn't provide support to your 'outside ofEdmonton' thesis.
Did you write that piece and are you just driving traffic to it? To be fair, your writing is much more solid than the Leafs Nation ranter.
redgrant
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2013
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Does it? Or trading for one like hjarmlasson...or hamonic or someone? We don't know.
Common sense from a mile away could see an injured klefbom and missing sekera was a recipe for disaster.
Why was nothing done?
Because the salary inflation caused by McDavid's extension limited us to UFAs who were willing to sign one year deals. That limited our potential options. Add to that that these guys were aware that if the signed in Edmonton, they weren't full time players on a healthy roster. We were rumored to be in on Franson late into the summer, but honestly things looked a bit rosier in Chicago considering their defensive depth has evaporated.
The UFA market was not what sunk this team this year. Regression did. The UFA market won't save next year either. These guys will have to perform better.
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When did Klefa get hurt? When did the team know he was hurt?
Not sure why no one in the anti-Chia crowd wants to answer that question.
This is all just nonsense speculation to absolve Chiarelli of responsibility.
We can make up things the other way too.
MacT would've gotten Hamilton
MacT would've signed Sekera and Letestu and traded for Talbot and nobody would've gotten hurt and the Oilers would've won the Cup.
No Reinhart trade means no Larsson trade which means no trading Hall which means no Lucic anchor contraco. No reason for a moronic 4x4 with a no move clause to Kris Russell.
With Hamilton acquired Schultz would have finally blossomed here and the Oilers would have a very strong defense.
Or we could just drop the bullshit and concentrate on things that actually happened?
Regardless of how poorly other GMs may or may not have done in Chiarelli's shoes or the influence that the OBC may or may not have we have to concentrate on what we do know and what has actually occurred.
So what do we know? We know that Chiarelli has been president and general manager for 3 years and in that time the team has made a number of indefensible trades that have made the team worse, the team has handed out a number of very poor contracts and they've chosen to give out full no move clauses freely. The team has also seen it's drafting look promising at least compared to in the past but it's far too soon to say anything for sure.
Put it all together and what do you have? Management that is below average if you're being kind and that falls on one man: Peter Chiarelli. He's the one in charge of making the decisions. If the OBC is giving him bad advice it's his job to replace them, he's chosen to retain them. I guess you and he disagree on the value of their influence.
syz
[1, 5, 6, 14]
- Jul 13, 2007
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Things were bad before Klefbom got hurt.
Everybody should have known they'd need a body who could fill in for Sekera.
Everybody should have known that even if Sekera were healthy they'd still need another top 4 D.
Everybody should have known that somebody like Benning was likely to regress.
Everybody should have known that Russell wasn't good enough for top 4 duty without somebody capable of carrying him (i.e. a healthy Sekera).
Everybody should have known that the team needed somebody who could contribute offense from the point.
These aren't hindsight claims, these are things people were talking about last May. The defense was a house of cards last year and the only one who didn't notice was the team's GM. It could have been even worse, but Nurse managed to take half a step forward.
Everybody should have known they'd need a body who could fill in for Sekera.
Everybody should have known that even if Sekera were healthy they'd still need another top 4 D.
Everybody should have known that somebody like Benning was likely to regress.
Everybody should have known that Russell wasn't good enough for top 4 duty without somebody capable of carrying him (i.e. a healthy Sekera).
Everybody should have known that the team needed somebody who could contribute offense from the point.
These aren't hindsight claims, these are things people were talking about last May. The defense was a house of cards last year and the only one who didn't notice was the team's GM. It could have been even worse, but Nurse managed to take half a step forward.
Hmmm. The two 'indefensible' trades in the first part in bold lead directly to the second part in bold.
Hall/Larsson and the Reinhart/(at least 7 other GMs missed on Barzal) trades are the two trades that the anti-Chia crowd hack on as indefensible.
The OBC scouting staff absolutely played a hand in both trades. The OBC has seen significant changeover from the decade of darkness. First purge was in 2015 with a good chunk of the scouting staff out the door. Then Buchy left, thank Heaven. More changes to the mix bringing Keith Gretzky in this off-season. I'd love to see KLowe and MacT shown the door. KLowe played a big role in getting Rogers Place up and running. MacT seems to be a useful idiot more than anything else.
Do tell the other indefensible trades Chiarelli has made?
Do tell who else in the OBC needs to go?
McShogun99
Registered User
Winnioeg has the exact same team last year and they didn’t make the playoffs. It’s amazing what goaltending and a healthy roster can do. 2016-17 showed us what this team is capable of when it’s healthy and has solid goaltending but a majority of the blame for this past season goes to Talbot and Chia. Talbot for the obvious and Chia for knowing that we needed a backup since it was obvious that we didn’t trust Brossoit and doing nothing about it, for knowing of the injury issues on D and doing nothing about it, as well as not adding any depth to the forward core.
Zaddy
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- Feb 8, 2013
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Again, of course people are going to favor the canadian offensive star over the quiet, swedish shutdown defenseman. If you think media guys sit and watch a bad New Jersey team just to see how Larsson plays you're out to lunch. Most people barely even knew who he was when the trade went down.
And I think most people already know that Eastern media don't watch much of Western Conference and if they do tune in to the Oilers they probably spend their time watching what flashier guys like McDavid, Draisaitl and Nurse is doing. They don't zero in on Larsson's game and notice all the small things he does right.
Frankly I think most people calling it a disaster takes a look at the point totals and draw their conclusion from that. When you factor everything in and and put it in a context the trade is far from a disaster. It's one thing to not like it or don't think it was great value, but calling it a disaster is just dumb and overdramatic IMO.
If you go with a strategy of development from within then the team should try and develop players. Last season was critical for a few players. Brossoit, Klefa and Nurse. Hindsight is great but was everybody really sure Brossoit would be as weak as he was? Chia has attempted to remedy that with Koskinen. Time will tell.
Klefa's injury is the one that is most interesting. I have asked repeatedly when Klefa got hurt and when the team knew about it. Chiarelli really counted on Klefa being able to team with Larsson on the top pairing like they did in the playoffs.
Nurse was a pleasant suprise. He looked like he was trending to be a first pairing guy up to the all-star game. Now he looks like a solid 4D on a potentially very good second pairing.
I get how a RHS, power play specialist is the flavour of the offseason. I think Bear has the potential to be that guy, but not in 2018-19. What do the Oilers do as a stop gap for a season?
McVirginOil
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2014
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It was never about drafting Barzal (although the fact that he was available is the icing on top), it was the fact that we traded 2 cost controlled assets in a very good draft for a project LHD trending down because he played with the Oil Kings or something. And we got nothing out of him. Those 1st and 2nd rounders could’ve been prospects in our bare cupboard but no it’s always gotta be “BuT 7 GMS MiSseD oN BaRzAL”. All I had was YouTube highlights and stats websites to know Barzal should be drafted in the top 10 at least. Speaks volumes about all the “smart” GMs, that have no sports management experience, whom fans appeal to because they played 25 games in the NHL or something.
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