Fire Treliving

[lightstorm]

That's...pretty bad.

You can say That's...pretty Brad.

crickets...

*leaves the room*

 

[Lunatik]

from another post, so people can evaluate with facts

The following is a year to year list of how we did (league rank, playoffs, GF, GA), the in-season moves,the offseason moves, and little notes to point out certain thigs like that we were in a rebuild, "x" player made a late season debut... etc

2013-14 (before Treliving): 27th Overall, missed playoffs, 23rd in GF/GP and 24th in GA/GP
Notes: Flames are rebuilding, Gaudreau had just made his NHL debut, Monahan had 1 year under his belt, Burke didn't trade pending uFA Cammalleri

2014 Offseason
In: Brandon Bollig (Trade), Deryk Engelland, Jonas Hiller, Mason Raymond, Devon Setoguchi, Raphael Diaz, Sam Bennett (Draft)
Out: Kevin Westgarth, Chris Butler, Joey MacDonald, Blair Jones, Mike Cammalleri

2014-15: 22nd overall, made playoffs (3rd in division, advanced second round), 6th in GF/GP, and 24th in GA/GP
Notes: Weak division, fluke playoff run, lots of comeback victories
In Seasons moves: Traded Corbin Knight for Drew Shore, Traded Curtis Glencross for 2nd & 3rd, Traded Sven Baertschi for a 2nd, added David Schlemko via waivers

2015 Offseason
In: Garnet Hathaway (NCAA FA), Jakub Nakladal (Euro FA), Dougie Hamilton (Trade), Rasmus Andersson (Draft), Oliver Kylington (Draft), Andrew Mangiapane (Draft), Michael Frolik (UFA),
Out: Ben Hanowski, Brian McGrattan, Devin Setoguchi, David Schlemko, Raphael Diaz,

2015-16: 26th overall, missed playoffs, 10th in GF/GP, 30th (last) in GA/GP
Notes: Fired Bob Hartley after the season, Hired Glen Gulutzan
In Seasons moves: Acquired Freddie Hamilton for Futures, Traded Markus Granlund for Hunter Shinkaruk, Traded Jiri Hudler for 2nd and 4th, Traded Kris Russell for 2nd, Brett Pollock and Jyrki Jokipakka, Traded David Jones for Niklas Backstrom and s 6th

2016 Offseason
In: David Rittich (Euro UFA), Brian Elliott (Trade), Matthew Tkachuk (Draft), Dillon Dube (Draft), Tyler Parsons (Draft), Adam Fox (Draft), Eetu Tuulola (Draft), Matthew Phillips (Draft), Alex Chiasson (Trade), Chad Johnson (UFA), Troy Brouwer, Niklas Grossmann, Kris Versteeg, Ryan Lomberg
Out: Jonas Hiller, Niklas Backstrom, Joe Colborne, Joni Ortio, Josh Jooris, Kenny Agostino, Mason Raymond, Kari Ramo

2016-17: 18th Overall, made playoffs (wildcard, lost in round 1), 17th in GF/GP, 14th in GA/GP
Notes: First season Treliving added at deadline, sign we are trying to move out of rebuild
In Seasons moves: Signed Matt Bartkowski (UFA), Traded 3rd and 5th for Michael Stone, Traded 2nd and Jyrki Jokipakka for Curtis Lazar,


2017 Offseason
In: Mike Smith (trade), Juuso Valimaki (draft), Travis Hamonic (trade), Adam Ruzicka (draft), Eddie Lack (trade), Jaromir Jagr
Out: Ladislav Smid, Chris Johnson, Deryk Engelland, Alex Chiasson, Lance Bouma, Brandon Bollig, Brian Elliott, Dennis Wideman

2017-18: 20th Overall, Missed Playoffs, 27th in GF/GP, 19th in GA/GP
Notes: Gulutzan was fired after the season, Bill Peters was hired, Brian Burke resigned.
In Seasons moves: Signed Glenn Gawdin (CHL UFA), Traded Eddie Lack for Dalton Prout, Jaromir Jagr Retires, Trade 7th for Nick Shore, Claimed Chris Stewart off waivers,

2018 Offseason
In: Elias Lindholm (trade), Noah Hanifin (trade), Pospisill (draft), Pettersen (draft), Zavgoridny (draft), Austin Czarnik (UFA), Derek Ryan (UFA), Buddy Robinson (UFA), James Neal (UFA), Kerby Rychel (trade)
Out: Dougie Hamilton, Michael Ferland, Adam Fox, Nick Shore, Chris Stewart, Kris Versteeg, Matt Bartkowski, Matt Stajan, Hunter Shinkaruk, Brett Kulak, Troy Brouwer

2018-19: T-2nd, Made Playoffs (lost in round 1 to Colorado), t-2nd in GF/GP, 9th in GA/GP
Notes: Everything seemed to go right after a slow start
In Seasons moves: Traded Morgan Klimchuk for Andrew Nielsen, Traded 4th for Oscar Fantenberg, Signed Luke Philp (U-Sport UFA)

2019 Offseason
In: Artyom Zagidulin (Euro UFA), Carl-Johan Lerby (Euro UFA), Alexander Yelesin (Euro UFA), Jakob Pelletier (draft), Ilya Nikolaev (draft), Lucas Feuk (draft), Josh Nodler (draft), Dustin Wolf (draft), Cam Talbot UFA), Brian Froese (UFA), Justin Kirkland (UFA), Milan Lucic (Trade), Tobias Rieder (UFA), Zac Rinaldo (UFA)
Out: Dalton Prout, Garnet Hathaway, Mike Smith, Oscar Fantenberg, James Neal

2019-20: 19th, made return to play tournament/playoffs (won qualifying round, lost in round 1 to Dallas), 20th in GF/GP, 17th in GA/GP
Notes: Bill Peters scandal sees him fired and Geoff Ward replace him, season halted due to pandemic, playoffs done as return to play in August
In Seasons moves: Traded Michael Frolik for 4th, Traded 4th for Derek Forbort, Traded 3rd for Erik Gustafsson, Connor Mackey (NCAA UFA), Colton Poolman (NCAA UFA), Johannes Kinnvall (Euro UFA)

2020 Offseason
In: Connor Zary (draft), Yan Kuznetsov (draft), Jeremie Poirier (draft), Jake Boltmann (draft), Daniil Chechelev (draft), Ryan Francis (draft), Rory Kerins (draft), Ilya Solovyov (draft), Alex Petrovic (UFA), Chris Tanev (UFA), Jakob Markstrom (UFA), Louis Domingue (UFA), Joakim Nordstrom (UFA), Dominik Simon (UFA), Nikita Nesterov (UFA), Josh Lievo (UFA), Brett Ritchie (UFA)
Out: Mark Jankowski, Austin Czarnik, Cam Talbot, Derek Forbort, Erik Gustafsson, Ryan Lomberg, TJ Brodie, Tobias Rieder, Travis Hamonic

2020-21: (as of May 7th, 2am) 23rd, out of playoffs, 27th in GF/GP, 16th in GA/GP
Notes: Covid shortened season, started in January 2021. Geoff Ward fired, Darryl Sutter hired mid-season
In Seasons moves: signed Walker Deuhr (NCAA UFA), traded David Rittich for 3rd, traded Sam Bennett for 2nd and Emil Heineman

 

[Body Checker]

There's an article by Matt Larkin in THN's Future Watch about the different paths the three California teams have taken since they last dominated the Pacific division. To me it really highlights how incompetent Brad Treliving has been to date.

 

[Volica]

from another post, so people can evaluate with facts

The following is a year to year list of how we did (league rank, playoffs, GF, GA), the in-season moves,the offseason moves, and little notes to point out certain thigs like that we were in a rebuild, "x" player made a late season debut... etc

2013-14 (before Treliving): 27th Overall, missed playoffs, 23rd in GF/GP and 24th in GA/GP
Notes: Flames are rebuilding, Gaudreau had just made his NHL debut, Monahan had 1 year under his belt, Burke didn't trade pending uFA Cammalleri

2014 Offseason
In: Brandon Bollig (Trade), Deryk Engelland, Jonas Hiller, Mason Raymond, Devon Setoguchi, Raphael Diaz, Sam Bennett (Draft)
Out: Kevin Westgarth, Chris Butler, Joey MacDonald, Blair Jones, Mike Cammalleri

2014-15: 22nd overall, made playoffs (3rd in division, advanced second round), 6th in GF/GP, and 24th in GA/GP
Notes: Weak division, fluke playoff run, lots of comeback victories
In Seasons moves: Traded Corbin Knight for Drew Shore, Traded Curtis Glencross for 2nd & 3rd, Traded Sven Baertschi for a 2nd, added David Schlemko via waivers

2015 Offseason
In: Garnet Hathaway (NCAA FA), Jakub Nakladal (Euro FA), Dougie Hamilton (Trade), Rasmus Andersson (Draft), Oliver Kylington (Draft), Andrew Mangiapane (Draft), Michael Frolik (UFA),
Out: Ben Hanowski, Brian McGrattan, Devin Setoguchi, David Schlemko, Raphael Diaz,

2015-16: 26th overall, missed playoffs, 10th in GF/GP, 30th (last) in GA/GP
Notes: Fired Bob Hartley after the season, Hired Glen Gulutzan
In Seasons moves: Acquired Freddie Hamilton for Futures, Traded Markus Granlund for Hunter Shinkaruk, Traded Jiri Hudler for 2nd and 4th, Traded Kris Russell for 2nd, Brett Pollock and Jyrki Jokipakka, Traded David Jones for Niklas Backstrom and s 6th

2016 Offseason
In: David Rittich (Euro UFA), Brian Elliott (Trade), Matthew Tkachuk (Draft), Dillon Dube (Draft), Tyler Parsons (Draft), Adam Fox (Draft), Eetu Tuulola (Draft), Matthew Phillips (Draft), Alex Chiasson (Trade), Chad Johnson (UFA), Troy Brouwer, Niklas Grossmann, Kris Versteeg, Ryan Lomberg
Out: Jonas Hiller, Niklas Backstrom, Joe Colborne, Joni Ortio, Josh Jooris, Kenny Agostino, Mason Raymond, Kari Ramo

2016-17: 18th Overall, made playoffs (wildcard, lost in round 1), 17th in GF/GP, 14th in GA/GP
Notes: First season Treliving added at deadline, sign we are trying to move out of rebuild
In Seasons moves: Signed Matt Bartkowski (UFA), Traded 3rd and 5th for Michael Stone, Traded 2nd and Jyrki Jokipakka for Curtis Lazar,


2017 Offseason
In: Mike Smith (trade), Juuso Valimaki (draft), Travis Hamonic (trade), Adam Ruzicka (draft), Eddie Lack (trade), Jaromir Jagr
Out: Ladislav Smid, Chris Johnson, Deryk Engelland, Alex Chiasson, Lance Bouma, Brandon Bollig, Brian Elliott, Dennis Wideman

2017-18: 20th Overall, Missed Playoffs, 27th in GF/GP, 19th in GA/GP
Notes: Gulutzan was fired after the season, Bill Peters was hired, Brian Burke resigned.
In Seasons moves: Signed Glenn Gawdin (CHL UFA), Traded Eddie Lack for Dalton Prout, Jaromir Jagr Retires, Trade 7th for Nick Shore, Claimed Chris Stewart off waivers,

2018 Offseason
In: Elias Lindholm (trade), Noah Hanifin (trade), Pospisill (draft), Pettersen (draft), Zavgoridny (draft), Austin Czarnik (UFA), Derek Ryan (UFA), Buddy Robinson (UFA), James Neal (UFA), Kerby Rychel (trade)
Out: Dougie Hamilton, Michael Ferland, Adam Fox, Nick Shore, Chris Stewart, Kris Versteeg, Matt Bartkowski, Matt Stajan, Hunter Shinkaruk, Brett Kulak, Troy Brouwer

2018-19: T-2nd, Made Playoffs (lost in round 1 to Colorado), t-2nd in GF/GP, 9th in GA/GP
Notes: Everything seemed to go right after a slow start
In Seasons moves: Traded Morgan Klimchuk for Andrew Nielsen, Traded 4th for Oscar Fantenberg, Signed Luke Philp (U-Sport UFA)

2019 Offseason
In: Artyom Zagidulin (Euro UFA), Carl-Johan Lerby (Euro UFA), Alexander Yelesin (Euro UFA), Jakob Pelletier (draft), Ilya Nikolaev (draft), Lucas Feuk (draft), Josh Nodler (draft), Dustin Wolf (draft), Cam Talbot UFA), Brian Froese (UFA), Justin Kirkland (UFA), Milan Lucic (Trade), Tobias Rieder (UFA), Zac Rinaldo (UFA)
Out: Dalton Prout, Garnet Hathaway, Mike Smith, Oscar Fantenberg, James Neal

2019-20: 19th, made return to play tournament/playoffs (won qualifying round, lost in round 1 to Dallas), 20th in GF/GP, 17th in GA/GP
Notes: Bill Peters scandal sees him fired and Geoff Ward replace him, season halted due to pandemic, playoffs done as return to play in August
In Seasons moves: Traded Michael Frolik for 4th, Traded 4th for Derek Forbort, Traded 3rd for Erik Gustafsson, Connor Mackey (NCAA UFA), Colton Poolman (NCAA UFA), Johannes Kinnvall (Euro UFA)

2020 Offseason
In: Connor Zary (draft), Yan Kuznetsov (draft), Jeremie Poirier (draft), Jake Boltmann (draft), Daniil Chechelev (draft), Ryan Francis (draft), Rory Kerins (draft), Ilya Solovyov (draft), Alex Petrovic (UFA), Chris Tanev (UFA), Jakob Markstrom (UFA), Louis Domingue (UFA), Joakim Nordstrom (UFA), Dominik Simon (UFA), Nikita Nesterov (UFA), Josh Lievo (UFA), Brett Ritchie (UFA)
Out: Mark Jankowski, Austin Czarnik, Cam Talbot, Derek Forbort, Erik Gustafsson, Ryan Lomberg, TJ Brodie, Tobias Rieder, Travis Hamonic

2020-21: (as of May 7th, 2am) 23rd, out of playoffs, 27th in GF/GP, 16th in GA/GP
Notes: Covid shortened season, started in January 2021. Geoff Ward fired, Darryl Sutter hired mid-season
In Seasons moves: signed Walker Deuhr (NCAA UFA), traded David Rittich for 3rd, traded Sam Bennett for 2nd and Emil Heineman

For those that for some reason don't want to just google stuff yourself, or can't remember the moves Treliving's made in his career and instead want to read this wall of text.

Here's some actual food for thought:

In 8 years with Treliving at the helm, the Flames have been a top 10 team once.
Flames have been a bottom 5 team. Once.
Flames have sat in the proverbial no man's land for 6 of the seasons.

Which differs from 1995-2012 in that:

Flames were a top team 1 time.
Flames were a bottom 5 team 0 times.
Flames were sat in the proverbial no man's land for almost two decades.

Wait. Nevermind. It's the same shit.

Acting like there's no correlation in teams bottoming out to become regular contenders is just misguided at this point of time. For the people who think we're tinkering away, when clearly history has directly shown we can't win with what we're doing outside of fluke seasons; I think you should get into C&B torture, as that seems more palatable than cheering for mediocrity.

There's an opening for the Flames to fall back into the bottom 5 here, with Vancouver having 4 games against us left, and Ottawa 1 more (which they should win). Flames would be best off getting there and increasing top 2 pick potential by another 5%.

 

[turnagainoutlaw]

I think his 'vision' of this team is dead.
Calgary needs a heavy reset; but this ownership won't do it. They know this building will be selling out once they allow people back in it. They have no need to suffer to produce a better product when a shitty product still generates money.

I'm not sure they can even make the playoffs with this group. If they are going to suck anyways, might as well suck.

 

[DomBarr]

For those that for some reason don't want to just google stuff yourself, or can't remember the moves Treliving's made in his career and instead want to read this wall of text.

Here's some actual food for thought:

In 8 years with Treliving at the helm, the Flames have been a top 10 team once.
Flames have been a bottom 5 team. Once.
Flames have sat in the proverbial no man's land for 6 of the seasons.

Which differs from 1995-2012 in that:

Flames were a top team 1 time.
Flames were a bottom 5 team 0 times.
Flames were sat in the proverbial no man's land for almost two decades.

Wait. Nevermind. It's the same shit.

Acting like there's no correlation in teams bottoming out to become regular contenders is just misguided at this point of time. For the people who think we're tinkering away, when clearly history has directly shown we can't win with what we're doing outside of fluke seasons; I think you should get into C&B torture, as that seems more palatable than cheering for mediocrity.

There's an opening for the Flames to fall back into the bottom 5 here, with Vancouver having 4 games against us left, and Ottawa 1 more (which they should win). Flames would be best off getting there and increasing top 2 pick potential by another 5%.

I don;t think the flames can fall into the bottom 5 though I do believe they have a very good chance of finishing 7th in the North.

 

[User1996]

I think his 'vision' of this team is dead.
Calgary needs a heavy reset; but this ownership won't do it. They know this building will be selling out once they allow people back in it. They have no need to suffer to produce a better product when a shitty product still generates money.

Let’s boycott going to games

 

[Volica]

I don;t think the flames can fall into the bottom 5 though I do believe they have a very good chance of finishing 7th in the North.

If they lose their remaining games, Vancouver and Ottawa easily leap-frog them, since the games are against them!

Also, if they lose those remaining games, Columbus, Detroit and Jersey could do the same with literally 1 win (for CBJ) and a 1 win and an OT loss for the other two.

 

[Mobiandi]

Here's Brad Treliving's tenure summed up:

For 7 years, the man has been the architect of the Flames and has constructed a roster that was only able to best 1 out of the other 6 Canadian teams in a regular season series.

The easiest path to a conference final we'll ever sniff and we could very well finish last in the division.

 

[DomBarr]

If they lose their remaining games, Vancouver and Ottawa easily leap-frog them, since the games are against them!

Also, if they lose those remaining games, Columbus, Detroit and Jersey could do the same with literally 1 win (for CBJ) and a 1 win and an OT loss for the other two.

I guess yes if they lose all 5 games they could but somehow we would still not win the lottery and the way this season has gone see both Vancouver and Ottawa win the lottery

 

[herashak]

Darryl Sutter lite with better drafting

 

[Dack]

We've made the playoffs in 4/7 seasons with him as GM and last year we may not have made it had the season finished like normal. Despite this we were only considered a rebuilding team for the first 2 years of his tenure. As a team trying to compete we've made the playoffs in 3/5 seasons (and lost in the 1st round each time) and all but one of those we snuck into as a low seed.

I like his minor trades and our drafting has massively improved under him but his time here has been a failure. He also bled away picks when we were a young team that needed to be making more picks and his free agent record is awful. I have no ill will towards him but it might be time to move on.

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

Let’s boycott going to games

I've been doing that since last March

 

[User1996]

I have said it before, but if you’re tearing it down at all, keep Treliving around for that. Say what you will about him not having a vision, or being a poor evaluator of talent. The guy would get value out of pieces we don’t expect, and I’m a huge fan of our drafting under him.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Treliving hasn’t been all bad. He’s honestly the best GM we’ve had in a long time. But I’ve said for 5 years now he’s not an adequate evaluator of talent. He’s made too many moves that were obviously poor the second they were made to be considered a good coach. He understands how to build a team which is really important, he just isn’t successful enough at identifying talent.

Gaudreau, Giordano, Monahan, Brodie, Backlund, Tkachuk, Lindholm

That’s the core of this team during his 7 year tenure and 2 of those players he acquired. Pretty telling.
Hanifin looks good but rumour was he was trying to trade Hanifin this summer, it was pretty obvious to me that Hanifin would figure his shit out and become a dominant player like he did this year.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I’m honestly a fan of Treliving, I’ve always felt and agree he’s a good “manager”. But I also agree he is not an ideal “hockey” guy. As long as he surrounds himself with the right people and truly listens to them, I’m fine with him to stay on. He’s learned a lot since he became the GM and I think were through with most of his growing pains.

The bar isn’t very high, but he’s probably the best manager the Flames have ever had.

 

[deleted user]

I want a winning product. I want it to be exciting and entertaining. I want it all, baby.

Treliving has failed. This Bennett fiasco was my final straw.

I can't wait till he's shown the door.

 

[Nanuuk]

Treliving isn't on the ice. And he doesn't coach. While I agree that the buck has to stop somewhere he really hasn't done that bad of a job. As I have posted before if I do have a criticism is that he is loyal to a fault which prevents him from making a bold move with the core.

 

[Lunatik]

I think people are putting too much stock into the past 2 seasons, because saying thee last two seasons were a shit show would be putting it mildly.

If you told people before the 2018-2020 that the the next two years would be like this, no one would say to take them seriously.

• Slow start to 2019-20, just start coming around when we are blindsided with the a coaching scandal,
• Team rally's gets into playoff spot and has the regular season ended in March by a global pandemic.
• Three months off
• Return to play in August, with no fans, 1 exhibition game.
• Play new consolation round in a physical battle, beating both teams up, while first round opponent is essentially have exhibition games in the round robin, in a chance to prepare properly.
• Five more months off. League signs new CBA which sees no raise in the salary cap for the foreseeable future.
• Start season almost 4 months late, again with no fans. Condense 70% of a seasons games into 50% of a season length, but only play 6 different teams in a division that never existed before.

How does anyone weigh these past two years heavier than the previous 5 years? That is unfathomable to me.

Edit: added bullet point format

 

[King In The North]

I think people are putting too much stock into the past 2 seasons, because saying thee last two seasons were a shit show would be putting it mildly.

If you told people before the 2018-2020 that the the next two years would be like this, no one would say to take them seriously.

• Slow start to 2019-20, just start coming around when we are blindsided with the a coaching scandal,
• Team rally's gets into playoff spot and has the regular season ended in March by a global pandemic.
• Three months off
• Return to play in August, with no fans, 1 exhibition game.
• Play new consolation round in a physical battle, beating both teams up, while first round opponent is essentially have exhibition games in the round robin, in a chance to prepare properly.
• Five more months off. League signs new CBA which sees no raise in the salary cap for the foreseeable future.
• Start season almost 4 months late, again with no fans. Condense 70% of a seasons games into 50% of a season length, but only play 6 different teams in a division that never existed before.

How does anyone weigh these past two years heavier than the previous 5 years? That is unfathomable to me.

Edit: added bullet point format

I get your point, but even last season we were mediocre and, to their credit, beat Winnipeg in a tough series.

I look at Tampa/Carolina/Florida and see how little they've been affected, and have to think it can't be an excuse for us. We are just plainly mediocre.

 

[TheHudlinator]

If we don't fire Treliving after this long with 0 success to show for his time then the organization simply doesn't care about winning.

 

[Lunatik]

I get your point, but even last season we were mediocre and, to their credit, beat Winnipeg in a tough series.

I look at Tampa/Carolina/Florida and see how little they've been affected, and have to think it can't be an excuse for us. We are just plainly mediocre.

Yes, we were mediocre, but hw much of that was due to the Peters scandal? We started slow but were just coming around and playing better when it all came out in November. We were still the 9th best team in the league after the firing until the regular season ended. Frankly the playoffs last season were not exactly sa fair measuring stick, the fact that some teams had to play an elimination series before others was necessary but not exactly fair. Nothing about the last 2 seasons is a good measuring stick for this team IMO.

 

[Lunatik]

If we don't fire Treliving after this long with 0 success to show for his time then the organization simply doesn't care about winning.

Considering we were rebuilding the first 3-4 years of his tenure and the last 2 years have been a scandal/pandemic shit show, I'm not sure I agree.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Considering we were rebuilding the first 3-4 years of his tenure and the last 2 years have been a scandal/pandemic shit show, I'm not sure I agree.

The rebuilding team won more playoff games in 1 year than his entire tenure.

 

[Lunatik]

The rebuilding team won more playoff games in 1 year than his entire tenure.

The rebuilding team got lucky and faced Vancouver. These past 2 years were what should have been the measuring stick, but with all the external shit, it's unfair to write him off because of it.