Fire Treliving

TheHudlinator

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The rebuilding team got lucky and faced Vancouver. These past 2 years were what should have been the measuring stick, but with all the external shit, it's unfair to write him off because of it.
How is it unfair? Every team had to deal with the same situation and yet again we folded like a cheap tent. We faced an 8th place team and got walked, I love how the only round win we have since 04 gets written off but every year Treliving's team fall apart there is an excuse why it isn't a huge deal. Treliving hasn't been able to improve the team he was given in 7 years if we run it back again we aren't even trying to win.
 

super6646

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I think people are putting too much stock into the past 2 seasons, because saying thee last two seasons were a shit show would be putting it mildly.

If you told people before the 2018-2020 that the the next two years would be like this, no one would say to take them seriously.

  • Slow start to 2019-20, just start coming around when we are blindsided with the a coaching scandal,
  • Team rally's gets into playoff spot and has the regular season ended in March by a global pandemic.
  • Three months off
  • Return to play in August, with no fans, 1 exhibition game.
  • Play new consolation round in a physical battle, beating both teams up, while first round opponent is essentially have exhibition games in the round robin, in a chance to prepare properly.
  • Five more months off. League signs new CBA which sees no raise in the salary cap for the foreseeable future.
  • Start season almost 4 months late, again with no fans. Condense 70% of a seasons games into 50% of a season length, but only play 6 different teams in a division that never existed before.

How does anyone weigh these past two years heavier than the previous 5 years? That is unfathomable to me.

Edit: added bullet point format

Sure seems like a lot of other teams were able to deal with the pandemic. Coaching scandal sucks, but every team suffers through adversity (Dallas did too last year btw).

Flames have also had pretty good injury luck as well (aside from Monahan’s chronic issues). Frankly this seems like a list of excuses. The previous 5 yrs saw one series win, and our only other one came against a team that lost their #1C and best goal scorer.
 

Lunatik

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Sure seems like a lot of other teams were able to deal with the pandemic. Coaching scandal sucks, but every team suffers through adversity (Dallas did too last year btw).

Flames have also had pretty good injury luck as well (aside from Monahan’s chronic issues). Frankly this seems like a list of excuses. The previous 5 yrs saw one series win, and our only other one came against a team that lost their #1C and best goal scorer.
Dallas' coaching change asn't a scandal, it was alcoholism that they all already knew about. And just because other teams have dealt with it better, doesn't mean the "excuses" aren't valid. Different teams are built differently, one of the most important players to this particular team though, is Tkachuk who feeds off crowd energy, both positive and negative.

It's also hilarious that you make excuses for us beating Winnipeg, but ignore us losing Tkachuk and still having Dallas on the ropes at one point. But I expect nothing les, I've seen you do very little other than complain about this team.
 

Lunatik

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How is it unfair? Every team had to deal with the same situation and yet again we folded like a cheap tent. We faced an 8th place team and got walked, I love how the only round win we have since 04 gets written off but every year Treliving's team fall apart there is an excuse why it isn't a huge deal. Treliving hasn't been able to improve the team he was given in 7 years if we run it back again we aren't even trying to win.
How is it unfair that some teams has to fight to the nails to advance to the playoffs, while other team have a series of what amounted to exhibition games? Geez, I dunno.....
 

TheHudlinator

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How is it unfair that some teams has to fight to the nails to advance to the playoffs, while other team have a series of what amounted to exhibition games? Geez, I dunno.....
Every team had to deal with the pandemic but like Treliving's ability to wear a mask his team fell short. This was the easiest schedule we will ever get to make the playoffs and we most likely finish last in the division he deserves to be fired for that alone.
 

Lunatik

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Every team had to deal with the pandemic but like Treliving's ability to wear a mask his team fell short. This was the easiest schedule we will ever get to make the playoffs and we most likely finish last in the division he deserves to be fired for that alone.
Claiming this was the easiest path to the playoffs is a bold faced f***ing lie Huds.

We went from a division with LA, Anaheim, San Jose and Arizona in it and replaced them with Toronto, Montreal, Winnipeg and Ottawa. On what planet is that easier? When you go from a division where you know your opponents, to one where you don't know half your opponents as well, it's not going to be "easy". We also had arguably the worst coach in the NHL in Ward in a schedule where coaching was more important than ever and cheaping out on Ward was an ownership thing, you can bet money on that.
 

TheHudlinator

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Claiming this was the easiest path to the playoffs is a bold faced f***ing lie Huds.

We went from a division with LA, Anaheim, San Jose and Arizona in it and replaced them with Toronto, Montreal, Winnipeg and Ottawa. On what planet is that easier? When you go from a division where you know your opponents, to one where you don't know half your opponents as well, it's not going to be "easy". We also had arguably the worst coach in the NHL in Ward in a schedule where coaching was more important than ever and cheaping out on Ward was an ownership thing, you can bet money on that.

If we can't beat Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver to make the playoffs we aren't going to win anything in the playoffs anyways. Our best case scenario can't be beating up bad teams and getting bounced in the first round and that's all Treliving offers.

Lol did ownership force Tre to fire Hartley? Did they force him to hire Gulutzan? Did they force him to hire Peters? Its just excuse after excuse why Treliving isn't at fault.

Worse case we fire Treliving and bring a new GM in is we miss the playoffs? Trade a first+ for a depth defenseman? We sign washed up Rwers to huge deals? There simply is no downside to bringing in new management.
 

super6646

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Dallas' coaching change asn't a scandal, it was alcoholism that they all already knew about. And just because other teams have dealt with it better, doesn't mean the "excuses" aren't valid. Different teams are built differently, one of the most important players to this particular team though, is Tkachuk who feeds off crowd energy, both positive and negative.

It's also hilarious that you make excuses for us beating Winnipeg, but ignore us losing Tkachuk and still having Dallas on the ropes at one point. But I expect nothing les, I've seen you do very little other than complain about this team.

Winnipeg had to lose their #1C and #1 winger for us to win a series. The flames weren’t even competitive against Dallas and were mostly outplayed even before tkachuk was hurt. Ik the game 6 implosion skews things, but before that talbot was our best player in that series.

Feeds off the crowd energy? Gimme a break man. Every key forward on this team aside from lindy underachieved badly, f***ing every single one. Even if tkachuk is pacing for 70 pts we are a ways off from making the playoffs. When you go 2-6 against Ottawa you don’t deserve shit.

I certainly hope you don’t expect the flames to be really good next year cause we can beat up on lowly Anaheim and San Jose because the flames are right with them as of now.
 
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DFF

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If ownership is willing to spend money to make the changes, it’s not that hard folks

Answer this when you decide Treliving’s fate

1) can we win with Johnny and Monahan as the top scoring threat
2) can we win with no top pairing, or power play QB dman
3) can we win with Ritchie, Nordstrom and companies as support player
4) can we win with Tkachuk as the highest paid player
5)is there anything in the system that can make significant contribution anytime soon
6)is Markstrom a 6M franchise goalie that we can trust?


If the answer is No for most of these then wtf is he around for?
 
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Lunatik

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If we can't beat Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver to make the playoffs we aren't going to win anything in the playoffs anyways. Our best case scenario can't be beating up bad teams and getting bounced in the first round and that's all Treliving offers.

Lol did ownership force Tre to fire Hartley? Did they force him to hire Gulutzan? Did they force him to hire Peters? Its just excuse after excuse why Treliving isn't at fault.

Worse case we fire Treliving and bring a new GM in is we miss the playoffs? Trade a first+ for a depth defenseman? We sign washed up Rwers to huge deals? There simply is no downside to bringing in new management.
Hartley deserved to be fired, one fluke season where we finished 22nd overall was hardly a reason to keep him longer. Gulutzan was a mistake, clearly. Peters though? He's the best coach we'd had since the first incarnation of Darryl. Blaming Treliving for the Hawks and Canes burying Peters' history is not on him.

No downside? Have you seen the contracts Tre gets us with RFAs? Have you seen how drafting and development has improved under him? You can't just ignore the good and emphasize the bad to fit your narrative.

I'm not saying Treliving is infallible, but these last 2 years have been beyond f***ed up and I think he has done enough good to deserve another season.
 
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Lunatik

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Winnipeg had to lose their #1C and #1 winger for us to win a series. The flames weren’t even competitive against Dallas and were mostly outplayed even before tkachuk was hurt. Ik the game 6 implosion skews things, but before that talbot was our best player in that series.

Feeds off the crowd energy? Gimme a break man. Every key forward on this team aside from lindy underachieved badly, f***ing every single one. Even if tkachuk is pacing for 70 pts we are a ways off from making the playoffs. When you go 2-6 against Ottawa you don’t deserve shit.
The Flames weren't competitive against Dallas, yet were a few minutes away from taking a 3-1 series lead. Just like you to ignore facts.
 

super6646

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The Flames weren't competitive against Dallas, yet were a few minutes away from taking a 3-1 series lead. Just like you to ignore facts.

Flow of play was badly in Dallas’ favour regardless for almost the entire series. And facts say we lost in 6, no one gives a crap about what almost happened.
 
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DFF

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Winnipeg had to lose their #1C and #1 winger for us to win a series. The flames weren’t even competitive against Dallas and were mostly outplayed even before tkachuk was hurt. Ik the game 6 implosion skews things, but before that talbot was our best player in that series.

Feeds off the crowd energy? Gimme a break man. Every key forward on this team aside from lindy underachieved badly, f***ing every single one. Even if tkachuk is pacing for 70 pts we are a ways off from making the playoffs. When you go 2-6 against Ottawa you don’t deserve shit.

I certainly hope you don’t expect the flames to be really good next year cause we can beat up on lowly Anaheim and San Jose because the flames are right with them as of now.


The playoffs was simply there to take. It could not be any easier

every single time when it mattered they choked
 
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TheHudlinator

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Hartley deserved to be fired, one fluke season where we finished 22nd overall was hardly a reason to keep him longer. Gulutzan was a mistake, clearly. Peters though? He's the best coach we'd had since the first incarnation of Darryl. Blaming Treliving for the Hawks and Canes burying Peters' history is not on him.

No downside? Have you seen the contracts Tre gets us with RFAs? Have you seen how drafting and development has improved under him? You can't just ignore the good and emphasize the bad to fit your narrative.

I'm not saying Treliving is infallible, but these last 2 years have been beyond f***ed up and I think he has done enough good to deserve another season.

Hartley deserved to be fired why? As you stated we were rebuilding and had a pretty bad roster that he got to win more playoff games than every coach since combined, the horror. Defend Treliving all you want it was his ego that fired Hartley and this team has payed for it since.

Feaster's drafting isn't that much worse than Treliving, Feaster drafted a better player than Treliving has ever drafted. The organization started spending money on scouts when Feaster came in no reason to believe this improved drafting wouldn't continue with a new GM. For every dollar this team saved on a RFA they pissed away on terrible FA. I'm not ignoring the good, the good is simply just mediocre in terms of how good things have gone over the last 7 years for other teams.

I will never understand how we spent 2 4th round picks and got a star winger, a Norris defenseman, and a top 2 defensive partner and we couldn't win more than 1 round in 9 years. Treliving is about as mediocre of a GM as you can get, I'd rather hire a worse GM and bottom out or hire a better one and restructure the team than keep a GM that will get 1 playoff win every other year.

You keep saying these 2 years should have been the years to test this team, well they were and we have seen how amazingly fragile they are.
 
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DFF

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Treliving and good drafting is a fraud. He constantly traded away picks for throw away depth. We got a few mediocre players (Andersson, Dube, Valimaki…etc) even when we never won anything. The system has been constantly ranked at the bottom during his whole tenure. Vancouver and Ottawa, even Montreal have drafted better players.
 
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Lunatik

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Hartley deserved to be fired why? As you stated we were rebuilding and had a pretty bad roster that he got to win more playoff games than every coach since combined, the horror. Defend Treliving all you want it was his ego that fired Hartley and this team has payed for it since.

Feaster's drafting isn't that much worse than Treliving, Feaster drafted a better player than Treliving has ever drafted. The organization started spending money on scouts when Feaster came in no reason to believe this improved drafting wouldn't continue with a new GM. For every dollar this team saved on a RFA they pissed away on terrible FA. I'm not ignoring the good, the good is simply just mediocre in terms of how good things have gone over the last 7 years for other teams.

I will never understand how we spent 2 4th round picks and got a star winger, a Norris defenseman, and a top 2 defensive partner and we couldn't win more than 1 round in 9 years. Treliving is about as mediocre of a GM as you can get, I'd rather hire a worse GM and bottom out or hire a better one and restructure the team than keep a GM that will get 1 playoff win every other year.

You keep saying these 2 years should have been the years to test this team, well they were and we have seen how amazingly fragile they are.
It was widely known Hartley had lost the room. FUnny how all teh detractors conveniently forget that now.

Feaster's drafting was better than most but not as good as Treliving. Having lucked out on Gaudreau doesn't make him better at drafting. Feaster drafted a total of 2 players outside the first round that are still in the NHL. Treliving has 3 just from 2015 alone.

Yes, Treliving has struggled with UFAs, as does just abut every GM in the NHL.

Treliving has been here 7 years, not 9 and it's easy to understand if you watched the team. We struggled finding a #1 goalie and finally found one before the weirdest season in NHL history.

[mod]
 
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Body Checker

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Winnipeg had to lose their #1C and #1 winger for us to win a series. The flames weren’t even competitive against Dallas and were mostly outplayed even before tkachuk was hurt. Ik the game 6 implosion skews things, but before that talbot was our best player in that series.

Feeds off the crowd energy? Gimme a break man. Every key forward on this team aside from lindy underachieved badly, f***ing every single one. Even if tkachuk is pacing for 70 pts we are a ways off from making the playoffs. When you go 2-6 against Ottawa you don’t deserve shit.

I certainly hope you don’t expect the flames to be really good next year cause we can beat up on lowly Anaheim and San Jose because the flames are right with them as of now.

Yep Dallas outplayed us pretty good. We played well enough against Winnipeg but I'm not sure we beat them if Scheifle stays in the lineup. Colorado owned us two years ago. We are missing the playoffs this year. Treliving does not have us on a path really to anything. Hey I hope he hits it out of the park in the offeason and next year I am eating crow but the results to date definitely bring a review of his work to the table if I'm ownership.
 
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TheHudlinator

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It was widely known Hartley had lost the room. FUnny how all teh detractors conveniently forget that now.

Feaster's drafting was better than most but not as good as Treliving. Having lucked out on Gaudreau doesn't make him better at drafting. Feaster drafted a total of 2 players outside the first round that are still in the NHL. Treliving has 3 just from 2015 alone.

Yes, Treliving has struggled with UFAs, as does just abut every GM in the NHL.

Treliving has been here 7 years, not 9 and it's easy to understand if you watched the team. We struggled finding a #1 goalie and finally found one before the weirdest season in NHL history.

[mod]

Put me in camp less than half a brain then because this team faced the exact same pressure as every other team the last 2 years and this team imploded. Treliving traded picks like candy even though he is great at drafting is a bad argument to keep him for me. You talk about Treliving being great a rfa deals but we get to qualify Chucky at 9 mil after next season and he isn't worth 7 doesn't get me excited. You blame everyone but Treliving for his coaches but he hired each and everyone of them. You say that other GM's suck at UFA signings so Treliving being literally one of worst over his time is some how excusable. You say ownership won't spend money on a coach but they literally did so I don't know how is their fault.

Treliving is supposed to be the manager but everything that goes wrong under him is some how someone else's fault, but the bright spots are all him. The next manager may be worse but anything is better than another decade and a half with 1 playoff round win which Treliving didn't even get.

Treliving just isn't good enough to build a contender, keeping him any longer only continues the cycle. If all you want is to be in the playoff hunt than Treliving is your guy but I'm done with being a bubble playoff team, I want to watch a fun team, if I have to watch a real bad team for a few years so be it.

If we had kept Hartley when he "lost" the room maybe the players would stop quitting on coaches as soon as things get hard.
 
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Nanuuk

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I think people are putting too much stock into the past 2 seasons, because saying thee last two seasons were a shit show would be putting it mildly.

If you told people before the 2018-2020 that the the next two years would be like this, no one would say to take them seriously.

  • Slow start to 2019-20, just start coming around when we are blindsided with the a coaching scandal,
  • Team rally's gets into playoff spot and has the regular season ended in March by a global pandemic.
  • Three months off
  • Return to play in August, with no fans, 1 exhibition game.
  • Play new consolation round in a physical battle, beating both teams up, while first round opponent is essentially have exhibition games in the round robin, in a chance to prepare properly.
  • Five more months off. League signs new CBA which sees no raise in the salary cap for the foreseeable future.
  • Start season almost 4 months late, again with no fans. Condense 70% of a seasons games into 50% of a season length, but only play 6 different teams in a division that never existed before.

How does anyone weigh these past two years heavier than the previous 5 years? That is unfathomable to me.

Edit: added bullet point format
I would also add that in a season like this where you play the same team nine or ten times, it is easier to get under the 8 ball. Teams figure you out and if the coaches don't adjust or the players don't play the way they are capable you get in a rut and can sink fast. And the NHL is in a flat cap era and the number of trading partners (due to quarantine rules) is limited. No easy fixes. You can't hang that on Treliving.
 

Lunatik

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Put me in camp less than half a brain then because this team faced the exact same pressure as every other team the last 2 years and this team imploded. Treliving traded picks like candy even though he is great at drafting is a bad argument to keep him for me. You talk about Treliving being great a rfa deals but we get to qualify Chucky at 9 mil after next season and he isn't worth 7 doesn't get me excited. You blame everyone but Treliving for his coaches but he hired each and everyone of them. You say that other GM's suck at UFA signings so Treliving being literally one of worst over his time is some how excusable. You say ownership won't spend money on a coach but they literally did so I don't know how is their fault.

Treliving is supposed to be the manager but everything that goes wrong under him is some how someone else's fault, but the bright spots are all him. The next manager may be worse but anything is better than another decade and a half with 1 playoff round win which Treliving didn't even get.

Treliving just isn't good enough to build a contender, keeping him any longer only continues the cycle. If all you want is to be in the playoff hunt than Treliving is your guy but I'm done with being a bubble playoff team, I want to watch a fun team, if I have to watch a real bad team for a few years so be it.

If we had kept Hartley when he "lost" the room maybe the players would stop quitting on coaches as soon as things get hard.
I never said anything about trading picks, which he supposedly trades away like candy, but in his tenure we've never had fewer than 5 picks in a draft and are only down 6 total picks, including the upcoming draft.

Who gives a f*** about Tkachuk's qualifying offer? If he signs a QO there are bigger f***ing problems than his QO. That is the absolute stupidest argument I have ever heard when it comes to Tre re-signing players.

Who did I blame for all the problems? I blame Carolina and Chicago for hiding information on Peters, that is literally all the blame I passed.

Maybe Treliving isn't going to be able to turn us into a contender, but before this season started, I and most others thought this team was good enough to become a contender, and I'm not some fickle fan that is going to flip flop and change my opinion because of this season in particular for all the reasons I previously mentioned. I'm just saying give him 1 more year, but it's all moot because guess, what, they are going to give him at least another year no matter how much you and others bitch about him.

It's also completely asinine that you are crying for a rebuild and want to fire Treliving. With his track record in trades and drafting, he's probably the best choice to dismantle the team.
 

Lunatik

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I would also add that in a season like this where you play the same team nine or ten times, it is easier to get under the 8 ball. Teams figure you out and if the coaches don't adjust or the players don't play the way they are capable you get in a rut and can sink fast. And the NHL is in a flat cap era and the number of trading partners (due to quarantine rules) is limited. No easy fixes. You can't hang that on Treliving.
Sorry dude, didn't you know logical reasons for things are just passing the blame?
 

Volica

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This thread rn.
 

TheHudlinator

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I never said anything about trading picks, which he supposedly trades away like candy, but in his tenure we've never had fewer than 5 picks in a draft and are only down 6 total picks, including the upcoming draft.

Who gives a f*** about Tkachuk's qualifying offer? If he signs a QO there are bigger f***ing problems than his QO. That is the absolute stupidest argument I have ever heard when it comes to Tre re-signing players.

Who did I blame for all the problems? I blame Carolina and Chicago for hiding information on Peters, that is literally all the blame I passed.

Maybe Treliving isn't going to be able to turn us into a contender, but before this season started, I and most others thought this team was good enough to become a contender, and I'm not some fickle fan that is going to flip flop and change my opinion because of this season in particular for all the reasons I previously mentioned. I'm just saying give him 1 more year, but it's all moot because guess, what, they are going to give him at least another year no matter how much you and others bitch about him.

It's also completely asinine that you are crying for a rebuild and want to fire Treliving. With his track record in trades and drafting, he's probably the best choice to dismantle the team.

No supposedly we have drafted the 6th least since Treliving has been here and we have traded multiple 1sts and 2nds.

You literally blamed ownership for having Ward as a coach.

I've been a vocal supporter of this core and said I was ride or die with them this year and boy did they die.

Treliving shouldn't be the GM of this team because he lacks a plan, 1 year we build through the draft then the next we trade everything for a player, then we dump that player and trade our picks for another player 2 years later. There is no vision for the team, who have we built around? Not Gaudreau as we still don't have a RWer for him hell we don't know who his center is, not Gio we let his partner walk after failing to trade him. What is the teams identity? We aren't fast, we don't play heavy, we aren't top end on special teams. We show up and hope for the best.

I'm not even asking for a rebuild I'm asking for accountability, how can I expect the players to be accountable when the management isn't for all their mistakes. This team has a leadership issue not just in the locker room but the board room too.

If you don't think Treliving can make this team a contender then we are wasting everyone's time and careers keeping him.
 
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RasmusAndersson

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I never said anything about trading picks, which he supposedly trades away like candy, but in his tenure we've never had fewer than 5 picks in a draft and are only down 6 total picks, including the upcoming draft.

Who gives a f*** about Tkachuk's qualifying offer? If he signs a QO there are bigger f***ing problems than his QO. That is the absolute stupidest argument I have ever heard when it comes to Tre re-signing players.

Who did I blame for all the problems? I blame Carolina and Chicago for hiding information on Peters, that is literally all the blame I passed.

Maybe Treliving isn't going to be able to turn us into a contender, but before this season started, I and most others thought this team was good enough to become a contender, and I'm not some fickle fan that is going to flip flop and change my opinion because of this season in particular for all the reasons I previously mentioned. I'm just saying give him 1 more year, but it's all moot because guess, what, they are going to give him at least another year no matter how much you and others bitch about him.

It's also completely asinine that you are crying for a rebuild and want to fire Treliving. With his track record in trades and drafting, he's probably the best choice to dismantle the team.

I honestly admire how much loyalty you have to this organization because holy sh*t are you biased in your assessment of our standing relative to the other teams in this league. Like dude, we suck. We’re supposed to be in win now mode yet we’re barely keeping up with Ottawa. We don’t hold a candle to freaking Edmonton and Toronto who are not even that good. Just imagine if we had to play Colorado or Boston or Tampa. Look at those rosters, with probably 5 or 6 guys on each team that are better than legit every single player we have, and please tell me how we can still be considered a contender? Carolina? Vegas? Washington?
if you genuinely believe in this organization winning a Stanley cup then you honestly are simply a Lunatik. We need a massive overhaul. Brad, our core, our hockey ops department, coaching staff. Things must change. It has nothing to do with ‘1 down year’, it’s that our team is straight up not that good and any unbiased fan would rank us near the middle of the pack with a bottom-10 prospect pool. We gotta look at ourselves in the mirror and stop with these last chances. I have to respect the loyalty tho damn, I wish I still had blind faith like this
 
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