Fire Tocchet

[DOTS13]

Wonder what the correlation is between perceived bad goaltending and poor team play in the same situation? Or would it be assumed that you just need the goalie to play better in these situations for the team to be better? In the Coyotes last 8 losses they scored 12 goals, asking a goalie to win those on a regular basis is a tall task.

That's a good question. Seems like a little bit of both bad goaltending and poor play in front of them. Since Kuemper hurt, .887 SV% has been on display. Not gonna win many games scoring just over a goal per game with .910 or less.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

But, the team mentality changed a little with Hall, everyone seemed to be score first and not as much detail on D.

Glad you bring this up, I see this as an adjustment that needs to be and more than likely will be addressed.
You bring in a guy like Hall and the mindset certainly changes. Attention to D is difficult and more often than not, not fun, or what most players would gravitate to, given their druthers. Hall comes in and the underlying thought becomes something to the effect of "we'll be scoring more now and can relax a bit on the defensive side of the game, which will lead to even more goals." Before you know it, structure is shot and the repercussions become obvious and are what we are witnessing.

 

[cobra427]

We better be ahead of last year point totals because of all the injuries we had. You say there is no lack of effort? I disagree. Have you watched the last 7 or so games? Keller, Schmaltz, Soderberg have been a total no show. Gogo and Demers coughing up the puck consistently. Kessel, one good game, then total no show. We all know the first 40 games is different than the next 40, and so far we have not adjusted, both players and coaches. This might be because of inexperience of coach and players, but the next 30 games will answer many questions about this team and their coach. I don't care how we do it, or who does it, we have to make the playoffs.

I have watched all but the Oilers game, its lack of execution not lack of hustle. I agree it is a game of mistakes, Boosh/Osterle have hurt us the most.

 

[Tom Polakis]

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What's unacceptable to me is the level of preparation and effort the team has demonstrated the past 4-6 weeks, even going back to before Kuemper's injury. A team with an "average talent level" should be working it's collective asses off night-in and night-out, and this team just doesnt (outside of Garland, Hino and perhaps a couple others). The team struggles with basic concepts like cycling and zone clearances, let alone effective puck movement and shot generation on the PP. Those are very clear and distinct coaching deficiencies that should simply not happen at this high a level.

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That's not a recent problem. Even when the team was winning back in October and November, time of possession was abysmal. They lack basic plays to exit their own zone, and typically don't know how to move the puck when they reach the offensive zone. The weak power play is a reflection of that inability to create chances.

I disagree with the sentiment that it's about lack of effort. True, the team has average talent, but players aren't coasting through games as much as is being claimed in some posts.

Coaches have more control over execution than effort, so I put most of the blame on them, and wouldn't mind them firing Tocchet in the absence of a playoff appearance.

 

[Canis Latrans]

That's not a recent problem. Even when the team was winning back in October and November, time of possession was abysmal. They lack basic plays to exit their own zone, and typically don't know how to move the puck when they reach the offensive zone. The weak power play is a reflection of that inability to create chances.

I disagree with the sentiment that it's about lack of effort. True, the team has average talent, but players aren't coasting through games as much as is being claimed in some posts.

Coaches have more control over execution than effort, so I put most of the blame on them, and wouldn't mind them firing Tocchet in the absence of a playoff appearance.

Spot on with the assessment of the offense. Zone exits have been abysmal. I haven't looked deeply into it, but I would suspect that the team's defensive struggles foment out of the repeated inability to get the puck cleanly out of the zone. You would think with our "vaunted" forecheck that guys would be used to practicing against it, but it's not the case. The book is out on how bad the Coyotes handle a forecheck, so you're seeing it imposed by every opponent now. If it just becomes mediocre, the effect should trickle down to offensive zone entries as they won't be needing to just dump it and go for a line-change so much.

I still don't actually think the defense is that bad overall, but the team is playing way, way too much without the puck so defensive numbers are down. Agree on offensive zone puck movement. The cycle is essentially only cycling. No one seems to make a move to get open for a shot off of it and they just rim it back around until a turnover occurs. I think really only Hall, Garland, and Dvorak find openings. Keller and Schmaltz can skate with the puck sure, but I think their off-the-puck movement is too lackadaisical. Just about every other player on the team has stone hands or thinks the puck is a hot potato and needs to defer to some one else. I generally think both Kessel and Stepan have the smarts to know what to do with the puck, but are just a step too slow offensively. Stepan at least can fall back onto his defense, but Kessel is still trying to play at his old fast-pace, yet isn't quick enough or something anymore, hence all these giveaways and the play dying on his stick.

 

[Canis Latrans]

More specifically in reference to Tocchet. I don't know if it's lack of practice time to get his systems fully employed, but he's in need of a revamp on several things that just continually harm the team game after game. Maybe coming out of the break they'll have fixed the d-zone exits and added more offensive zone tactics. The evidence still points to an inability to adjust during games though, and what's most worrying about this trend is that it's happened so much that I think other teams are now even coming into the games with the counter-plan, hence the absence of our early season great first periods.

I can see how evaluating a coach's ability to adapt in game is exceedingly difficult when deciding who to hire, but it's got to be something Tocchet needs to fix if he wants to remain in the head coach ranks.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Not now. Vegas panicked. Perhaps if we skid out of playoff contention, with an eye on next year, not this year. Who's going to replace him that offers a step up in quality in the middle of the season anyway?

I wasn't a fan of Tocchet but have to give him credit for the Coyotes best season in years. I don't blame him for having a soft team. It's not culture. Its the type of player. Put a creep like Tkchuk on any team and they automatically leave the "soft" category. Chayka brought in very soft players. You can't turn a soft player into a banger. No coach can force a player to be who he isn't.

 

[87turbobuick]

Vegas did not panic, they paid their players and are not getting the results. Yotes did the same thing, they paid their players and are not getting what they need. Chychrun would be first or 2nd pair on most decent teams in the National with OEL and the Hammer possibly 2nd but probably third pair. The rest would healthy scratches on good teams. Hall could play on any team, Garland would be sought after for his potential, Crouse and no emotion Dvorak could play third line on most teams. Keller and Schmaltz are small 2/3 line at best. Hayton is unproven and the rest are salary pieces. I do not blame Tocchet but our GM will have to do something to save his job if the playoffs slip away.

 

[Jakey53]

Not now. Vegas panicked. Perhaps if we skid out of playoff contention, with an eye on next year, not this year. Who's going to replace him that offers a step up in quality in the middle of the season anyway?

I wasn't a fan of Tocchet but have to give him credit for the Coyotes best season in years. I don't blame him for having a soft team. It's not culture. Its the type of player. Put a creep like Tkchuk on any team and they automatically leave the "soft" category. Chayka brought in very soft players. You can't turn a soft player into a banger. No coach can force a player to be who he isn't.

I would trade any forward on this team for "a creep like Tkachuk", and that includes Keith.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Why can't Keller return to rookie form?

If you ask me, it's because the league adapted to him and he didn't adapt back.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I think Chayka would be highly sought after if he became available. I suspect we renewed him for 4years (speculation) at easily more than double his previous salary (where he was cheap).

There would be an Oklahoma land rush on Chayka if he became available. I don't think there's another GM in the league who has been as creative and forward-thinking with the resources at hand as he has been.

 

[cobra427]

There would be an Oklahoma land rush on Chayka if he became available. I don't think there's another GM in the league who has been as creative and forward-thinking with the resources at hand as he has been.

I'm not so sure. The Coyotes need to make the playoffs first for Chayka to be in high demand.

 

[MIGs Dog]

There would be an Oklahoma land rush on Chayka if he became available. I don't think there's another GM in the league who has been as creative and forward-thinking with the resources at hand as he has been.

League max budget now. He's not resource-constrained when compared to other teams.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

League max budget now. He's not resource-constrained when compared to other teams.

He's not now, but what he did pre-Meruelo - especially compared to the "efforts" of previous GMs - is incredibly significant.

 

[CNYCrunchfan1]

He's not now, but what he did pre-Meruelo - especially compared to the "efforts" of previous GMs - is incredibly significant.

I mean aren't we still trying to figure out what exactly he did? We paid a bunch of guys and he got paid himself without actually getting results that truly mean anything yet. I think it's still up in the air exactly what he accomplished or is accomplishing. I get it we are better than before but is this really a team thats going to be in the playoffs for years to come? The lineup really doesnt excite me. Hall sure but he's not really ours yet and the lack of grit on this team doesn't scream years of success. Hell Columbus looks really promising even after giving up all they did last year but then again they have a better coach and more cojones.

 

[cobra427]

He's not now, but what he did pre-Meruelo - especially compared to the "efforts" of previous GMs - is incredibly significant.

Chaykas accomplishments so far aren't close to significant based on any results. DM got us in the playoffs 3 years in a row and a WCF too. Chayka's accomplishments don't come close to that so far, but he might at some point be there or I hope, have even better results. If we make the playoffs, and maybe win a round, that will help Chayka's credibility.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm not so sure. The Coyotes need to make the playoffs first for Chayka to be in high demand.

Chaykas accomplishments so far aren't close to significant based on any results. DM got us in the playoffs 3 years in a row and a WCF too. Chayka's accomplishments don't come close to that so far, but he might at some point be there or I hope, have even better results. If we make the playoffs, and maybe win a round, that will help Chayka's credibility.

Exactly. What has Chayka done to be wanted? Most of the move Chayka made, us fans seem to like, but the results have not been there. We overvalue our players, GM's and coaches, or at least many do. Chayka and RT have done nothing to where they will be a hot commodity. Having said that, DT, a couple of the old owners and our current president Ahron Cohen all say Chayka has a brilliant mind.

 

[hbk]

I think it’s amazing that we are 1 point out of first place and we want to fire the GM and coach.

 

[rt]

I think it’s amazing that we are 1 point out of first place and we want to fire the GM and coach.

The playoffs started last week. Those two games against Vancouver and Edmonton were playoff games. The Canucks knew it, and played like it. The Oilers knew it, and played like it. Our team laid down and died. It doesn't exactly beg for hopefulness. If we'd battled hard and lost in OT, or suffered a last minute heartbreaker in regulation, this thread wouldn't exist.

The fact is that for every player other than OEL, those two games were easily the most important games any player on this team has ever played for the Coyotes. Most of our players forgot to get out of bed, and just slept walked thorough all six periods.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

At the Pittsburgh game, some old dude from Calgary and either his daughter or his much younger date were sitting in the seats immediately in the seats to my left. During one of our power plays there was a significant smattering of boos when someone had to circle back and reset, and the guy - who claimed to be a neutral - said "wow, this is best team you've had in ages; tough crowd". I said "yeah, I know, people just are like that here lately"

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

I think it’s amazing that we are 1 point out of first place and we want to fire the GM and coach.

But, Yotes are also 3 points (with extra games played) from being out of the playoffs and lost 5 of the last 6 games (beating SJ avoided a 6 game losing streak). IF the teams with games in hand win them... Yotes are out of the playoffs and middle of the pack without their 1st round pick.

Guess it depends on how one wants to look at it. I see them playing very poorly for the last while or so and think they should be doing better. I don't think the goaltending is an excuse or reason for the losing, either. As stated above... they not only lost but looked bad in doing so.

I personally have no issues with Chayka's moves and have more issue with the coaching of this team at this time. We've seen them play well but they don't sustain it for whatever the reason is. They have to get them to play like they are capable of... consistently.

As I've said before, missing the playoffs is not an option for the Yotes this year. They have to make sure they make it. That's my opinion at least.

 

[XX]

I think it’s amazing that we are 1 point out of first place and we want to fire the GM and coach.

They're 18th by points percentage. Don't let the idiotic standings lull you into thinking the team is better than it really is.

They aren't losing these games on a heartbreaking goal against. They're getting curb stomped/blown the f*** out.

Tocchet has no ability to manage a game and his entire staff has shown no ability to adapt to changing circumstances. He has the mental reset of the ASG break to get this team into gear and to get them hot.

 

[PainForShane]

So... big picture post. Again I've only really been a coyotes fan for not that long, I've had season tickets 3 years and have been going to all the games (because I live here), also I'm super into hockey in general and have been for 20+ years (grew up in NJ, AZfromNJ I'm sure this will come out at some point).

Obvious to most of the posters who I am assuming are also superfans, but I think most of the angst around this team is that it's the first time in quite a while this team actually might be good / take that next step. So

I think it’s amazing that we are 1 point out of first place and we want to fire the GM and coach.

hbk you're right but today we're also in the 2nd WC place and CHI is surging, you would also think NSH would surge at some point and who knows if WPG gets Buff back maybe they surge also. In my view I understand the angst, esp from ppl who haven't been in the playoffs since 2012 (many of whom are posting here). And if Hall doesn't re-sign, this team takes a step BACK because we gave up a 1st rounder for him. So it's easy to see how fans will think this season matters in the long term trajectory of our team.

So yeah that's why ppl are anxious, makes sense to me

 

[Lawson of Anarchy]

During one of our power plays there was a significant smattering of boos when someone had to circle back and reset

I'm happy to have been one of those in attendance and booing.

 

[hbk]

I get anxious but people are in full on panic.

this is easily the most talented and most competitive team we’ve had in years.

I’d expect other teams in the league to be competitive and that we are going to have to earn a playoff spot. I don’t have an issue with the team earning it and I’m not going to complain every time Vancouver, Winnipeg, Chicago, etc win a couple of games. The season is a marathon. We’ve sucked ass the last 7 games. The season isn’t over just yet. Let’s see what happens then assess.