FIRE Lavy

[Bringer of Jollity]

Say what you want about his history of team playoff success, but Poile's done a great job bringing some needed offensive talent to this organization over the past few seasons, while minimally disrupting our defensive corps. Outside of improving our depth, which I'm sure will be a focus come this off-season, I have a hard time blaming him for this particular debacle.

 

[Armourboy]

In the end you have to blame someone and the only thing that has been constant the entire time is Poile.

I don't completely blame him though, this coaching staff and some of these players have needed to get their heads out of their ***** all season long.

I think Ribs needs to be fired more than anyone.

 

[predfan98]

Lavy has no clue how to adjust strategies. Boudreau has completely re-vamped how the Ducks play after Game 1 and 2 but Lavy is just staying the course.

Exactly. Lavy and the entire coaching staff need to be fired. And I felt this way months ago.

 

[hockey diva]

Trotz's highly talented Caps team has dropped 2 in a row against 8th seed Philly after being up 3-0. Poile is part of the problem along with Lavy. Poile needs to retire and Lavy gets one more shot next season before the ownership will have to decide whether to buy him out. And let's revamp the scouting staff while we are at it. Poile and co draft based on what they see. We need to find more true NHL talent that can contribute.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I think Poile is cursed. 33 years of being an NHL GM. Nothing to show for it.

 

[Byrddog]

Here's what you do, get more 2-way forwards to help out the second best blueline in the league. Get a goalie who is flexible, and bam you have it well. What sets Preds apart from Blues, Hawks, Kings, Ducks, etc. is no matter how deep your blueline is, unless all of your forwards can play a decent 2-way game you won't get anywhere. We Johansen, Neal, Forsberg, Smith are all players that need to step up in their 2-way game. Oh let's not even get to Ribeiro, the biggest liability of all times. When Fisher is your only competent 2-way forward, you're going to have issues.

You are spot on. And what Lavi and Poile have tried to do is become the Dallas Stars so what you score 3 we will score 5. I said it when Trotz was let go you can not swing this team into a Lavi system. The high flying out score everyone machine that Lavi needs to have his system be successful. Now Poile did go out and sign Neal and snag Johanson and he has a windfall in Forsberg. Unless Johanson morphs into a Benn clone and can score 40 a year and our two 30 goal guys continue we are short. The secondary scoring the Stars have is solid too Sharpe had 20 so that's the equivalent of our Smith. Then the separation begins The Stars have 9 players with 10 to 20 goals the Preds 5 two of which are defensemen. Hell Nystrom had the same number of goals as our 2nd line center. But I ramble what the point is we were let down by those who Poile thought could adapt and thrive under Lavi and Lavi had to patch the PK with Goose Nystorm Borque because the remainder outside of Fish were horrid defensively. Over time a couple have got better Forsberg for one but as this poster pointed out the team is still short on two way guys and have guys that can not perform to Lavi standards.

So again where does Poile and ownership go? Try to become a Dallas clone or cut there losses with Lavi and start fresh again? Many think making the playoffs was a boon for the Preds this year. Well it did add about 3 mil in revenue to the team, but it may have been better if they had missed the playoffs in the long run. As it is now they made the show no reason to make any big moves sounds familiar huh. And this is what I expect to happen. Poile does little in the summer may sign a veteran D for the 3rd pair and a depth veteran to the forward side. Fiala gets a shot next season. Poile will trade Riberio if he can find a fool to take him(the guy is done). He will go into next year with the top 6 of . Neal- FF-Johanson, Jarnkrok, Smith, Fiala and the 2C will be a goatrope.

 

[NSH615]

I think Poile is cursed. 33 years of being an NHL GM. Nothing to show for it.

I wouldn't call that cursed. I'd call that bad management. He knows how to build a team that is just good enough to make the playoffs, but that is it. Like in past years, this team is bad when stacked up against the league, but too good for it's own good.

 

[Byrddog]

I wouldn't call that cursed. I'd call that bad management. He knows how to build a team that is just good enough to make the playoffs, but that is it. Like in past years, this team is bad when stacked up against the league, but too good for it's own good.

You are right especially now when teams tank to get the top picks that is something Poile has never done. The team was competitive to be a bubble team and get in and to do just as they have done this year and in the past, exit early. This team is not nearly as good as many think there are some good pieces but not enough to take them to another level. Without the ability to go out and sign the F/A that can make the difference Poile is restricted to finding and acquiring the gems like Forsberg or trading strength for strength like the Johanson trade. The fanbase and ownership are not patient enough to suck for long enough to build a team like Chicago did. And they do not have the stomach to bare earth burn the team to the ground and start around a core and re-build.

 

[bdub24]

Yeah let's fire Lavy cause we got so much top shelf leadership just dying to come to an org that has no record of winning the post season and as an added bonus, shows no patience for instituting change. Brilliant.

 

[deanwormer]

I wouldn't call that cursed. I'd call that bad management. He knows how to build a team that is just good enough to make the playoffs, but that is it. Like in past years, this team is bad when stacked up against the league, but too good for it's own good.

I'm rarely a Poile defender - but in this case, I think you're missing an important piece - the budget. You have to know what that number is, what the planned increase is for the next couple years, and then you could evaluate whether or not Poile builds a team good enough to make the playoffs, or maximizes the dollars he's given.

I would argue the wisdom of the Gausted signing for it's length, and the Nystrom signing at all, but in the grand scheme of things you had to pay somebody, and PERHAPS if those were cheaper someones that did the job nearly as well we might have one additional better F. If they were available and we could have signed them. But it would be in Arvy's role, and then we would have no kids up with any meaningful top 9 experience. So, kinda' a push. Even if you don't agree, you probably would have been behind Poile going all-in back in 2012, right? Well that year, as in a couple others, prospects and picks go, and no homegrown bodies coming to fill, so.......

We don't know what kinda' number mgt is giving Poile, but I'm willing to bet he's spending it all - or keeping a bit in reserve so he's got the cushion to extend Flip, and that will repeat with re-signing Joey and Neal when the time comes.

Don't mis-construe this as defending or letting Poile off - I'm not. I thought he should have gone when Trotz did, I think he needs to go now. But not for the reason he can't build a team, but because we need to force ownership to step up and be responsible for funding a team. We always (or at least mostly) marveled at what Trotz could squeeze outta' those teams. But that was also the talent he was given, and if Poile spent to the budget limit, then he gave his coach pretty good talent to work with to squeeze. Well, if Poile is spending to the budget, he simply is a bad match with Lavy, cause Lavy isn't gonna' be able to get teams constructed with this budget year-to-year competitiveness any further than Trotz.

We're selling out 3/4s of our games. It's generally a hot ticket, and certainly the Preds are the most competitive sports team in Nashville - except perhaps Belmont basketball - which obviously isn't in the same level of visibility. Ownership is gonna' need to fund a higher level. Folks are gonna' argue - how do you know what the budget is, etc. I don't, you don't, RStanley and the talk-show guys think they got clues but they don't, either. What I do know is the same thing other long-time fans and STH's know - we've been competitive, but we expect and deserve better.

I believe Poile does an amazing job with an inadequate budget - like I said, I don't know that, but that's my deduction from watching this a long time. I'm tired of my STH money going to an inadequate budget; so honor Mr. Poile with a star or bust or something and move along, and ownership step your ***** up to major league sports. We had a great ASG, the town is on fire, and you have a chance to make a mark in a culture that thinks sports begins with college football and ends with the Pros. That window is open as far as it's gonna' be - if you miss this, it will be a long time before you get another chance.

 

[deanwormer]

Yeah let's fire Lavy cause we got so much top shelf leadership just dying to come to an org that has no record of winning the post season and as an added bonus, shows no patience for instituting change. Brilliant.

Note - the Blues have finished 1st or 2nd for what, 4 years. They've gotten out of the 1st once. I dunno - is Hitch better than Lavy? How about Boston - missed the POs 2 years in a row - how come they hanging onto that guy?

That Joel guy in Chitaco - he's pretty good. You think he wins in Nashville? Heck, I'll let him bring Kane and Captain Serious with him, too - send Neal and Joey up. There you go - does he win? Hell no, not a chance, cause to pay those guys the 2nd line is gonna' be Hook/Arvy/Watson and the 3rd will look just like that, too.

You fire the coach when the team isn't prepared, when he gets less than he should outta' his talent. I don't think you can make that argument about Lavy.

 

[Burk24]

Notice how they were winning with Smith and losing without. Seems like he isn't the problem.




I agree with this. Poile should be fired and should have been fired instead of Trotz. Poile does not know how to build a contending team. And before anyone says this team is, this team has no back bone and crumbles under pressure. That is not a characteristic of a contending team.

I couldn't agree more. Fenton and Poile both need to go. They are stifling this team. It's time for new management.

 

[LCPreds]

What is the long term plan if we fire Poile, Lavi, etc.? This could go a couple of different ways. We finally get that extra piece or two that push us beyond the 2nd round. Or we could be in position very quickly to be picking top 5 for a few consecutive seasons.

Speaking of the latter, how would this market respond to a situation where we are absolutely atrocious for 3-5 years? Would we survive?

 

[drwpreds]

and this is my entire point.

Laviolette has been completely out coached in this series.

And as I mentioned, I KNOW he has had success elsewhere, but here, he hasn't shown much other than how to utterly fail at 3 on3, complete with the admission by our captain that he didint even practice it.


All you folks that said you'd be happy even if we lost playing up tempo hockey, well, be careful what you wish for, because it sure looks like Lavy is on course to match Trotz playoff record here.

Everyone who said it didn't matter how good Trotz was getting the most out of a bad roster or how good an Xs and Os coach he was because he didn't win in the playoffs, well, your savior is about to go 0-2 in two years of the playoffs

Again, I just hope you are posting out of frustration here because statements like that are utterly ridiculous. Hasn't shown anything here?? Please.

88-52-24 record. Averaged a 100 point season in his 2 seasons. Lost in round 1 last year to the Cup champions, a series in which the team played a great series. And this year, at worst, loses in 6 games in a series in which we were the severe underdogs by almost everyone on this board.

Is it going to be disappointing if we lose this series? Absolutely. But don't tell me Laviolette hasn't "shown anything here"....

 

[Gnashville]

This team quit at the 1st sign of trouble in this series. I don't know if the coach is to blame or if anyone can turn this around.

 

[predfan98]

I agree with bits and pieces of a lot that has been said. The budget, poile, ownership, coach, talent, etc are all part of the equation.

If poile was good-- he knew what lavys system required. He knew we didn't have it. Or he didn't analyze lavy correctly.

Lavy -- he's the head coach, if his assistants aren't doing the job- he should have done something. PP and goalie coach....

If he can't change his coaching - he's a one trick pony and I don't want him.

The market and the owners , don't really know how to analyze. I do know they are trying to lock some people and businesses to 5 year commitments . I think they are looking for ways to increase " business" and concession money for profitably and have been successful. Not so much on the hockey side.

It's a big circle about what piece to change. I just know this year has been more frustrating than those grinding years with trotz.

 

[predfan98]

This team quit at the 1st sign of trouble in this series. I don't know if the coach is to blame or if anyone can turn this around.

Agreed.

 

[NSH615]

I'm rarely a Poile defender - but in this case, I think you're missing an important piece - the budget. You have to know what that number is, what the planned increase is for the next couple years, and then you could evaluate whether or not Poile builds a team good enough to make the playoffs, or maximizes the dollars he's given.

I would argue the wisdom of the Gausted signing for it's length, and the Nystrom signing at all, but in the grand scheme of things you had to pay somebody, and PERHAPS if those were cheaper someones that did the job nearly as well we might have one additional better F. If they were available and we could have signed them. But it would be in Arvy's role, and then we would have no kids up with any meaningful top 9 experience. So, kinda' a push. Even if you don't agree, you probably would have been behind Poile going all-in back in 2012, right? Well that year, as in a couple others, prospects and picks go, and no homegrown bodies coming to fill, so.......

We don't know what kinda' number mgt is giving Poile, but I'm willing to bet he's spending it all - or keeping a bit in reserve so he's got the cushion to extend Flip, and that will repeat with re-signing Joey and Neal when the time comes.

Don't mis-construe this as defending or letting Poile off - I'm not. I thought he should have gone when Trotz did, I think he needs to go now. But not for the reason he can't build a team, but because we need to force ownership to step up and be responsible for funding a team. We always (or at least mostly) marveled at what Trotz could squeeze outta' those teams. But that was also the talent he was given, and if Poile spent to the budget limit, then he gave his coach pretty good talent to work with to squeeze. Well, if Poile is spending to the budget, he simply is a bad match with Lavy, cause Lavy isn't gonna' be able to get teams constructed with this budget year-to-year competitiveness any further than Trotz.

We're selling out 3/4s of our games. It's generally a hot ticket, and certainly the Preds are the most competitive sports team in Nashville - except perhaps Belmont basketball - which obviously isn't in the same level of visibility. Ownership is gonna' need to fund a higher level. Folks are gonna' argue - how do you know what the budget is, etc. I don't, you don't, RStanley and the talk-show guys think they got clues but they don't, either. What I do know is the same thing other long-time fans and STH's know - we've been competitive, but we expect and deserve better.

I believe Poile does an amazing job with an inadequate budget - like I said, I don't know that, but that's my deduction from watching this a long time. I'm tired of my STH money going to an inadequate budget; so honor Mr. Poile with a star or bust or something and move along, and ownership step your ***** up to major league sports. We had a great ASG, the town is on fire, and you have a chance to make a mark in a culture that thinks sports begins with college football and ends with the Pros. That window is open as far as it's gonna' be - if you miss this, it will be a long time before you get another chance.

It was my understanding that the owners green lit Poile on the budget front and have for the past few years and that now the real issue is Poile spending money wisely for the most part because he doesn't want to go over the cap. I don't buy the budget excuse. I really see it as a he is afraid of risk therefore rarely takes it. Really his deal is he wants to play the safe card. The only reason he went all in in 2012 was to try to keep from losing Suter.

This is a guy who is either too shy to approach talented free agents or doesn't know how to. Heck even if Ribeiro wasn't the greatest talent on the market 2 summers ago due to his personal issues it still is mind boggling that Poile didn't at least touch basis with his agent to find out what he was looking for. Poile and Ribs both admitted that Ribs approached Nashville because that was the city they wanted to be in.

There is a reason he has not done much of anything in 33 years. You would think that after that many years he would have a lot more to his credit than 1 division title.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

This team quit at the 1st sign of trouble in this series. I don't know if the coach is to blame or if anyone can turn this around.

Team full of Rinnes--zero composure or resilience. Zero discipline doesn't help either.

 

[PredsV82]

Again, I just hope you are posting out of frustration here because statements like that are utterly ridiculous. Hasn't shown anything here?? Please.

88-52-24 record. Averaged a 100 point season in his 2 seasons. Lost in round 1 last year to the Cup champions, a series in which the team played a great series. And this year, at worst, loses in 6 games in a series in which we were the severe underdogs by almost everyone on this board.

Is it going to be disappointing if we lose this series? Absolutely. But don't tell me Laviolette hasn't "shown anything here"....

Funny you could take this post back ten years in time and it would have fit right in when we lost to the Sharks two years in a row, and four years ago when we lost to Phoenix.

Point being, Lavy has taken more talent than Trotz had in all but two of his seasons here, and given us exactly Trotzian results.

I am enjoying all of you who have taken up turd polishing trying to shine up Laviolettes crappiness.

 

[dougie1107]

I just want to hop in here and say I stopped reading this thread after people began saying we should hire Carlyle.

 

[drwpreds]

Funny you could take this post back ten years in time and it would have fit right in when we lost to the Sharks two years in a row, and four years ago when we lost to Phoenix.

Point being, Lavy has taken more talent than Trotz had in all but two of his seasons here, and given us exactly Trotzian results.

I am enjoying all of you who have taken up turd polishing trying to shine up Laviolettes crappiness.

Crappiness?? I just do not understand. When he was hired, we were a non playoff team. We had a 104 point season in year one- one in which we led the entire NHL for much of the season. Yes, we slumped at the end, I will give you that. Then in the playoffs we played the Stanley Cup champions off their butts- better than anyone else did. And we did that without Weber and Fisher. This year despite a poor first half we still almost had a 100 point season. And as we stand right now, we are down 3 games to 2 against a team that is considered one of the top 4 Stanley Cup contenders. We still may even win the series.

You call that crappiness?? What did you expect in these first 2 seasons? What would you have been satisfied with, or what would have had to have happened for you to not crap all over Laviolette as if we have had 2 horrible seasons.

I get the frustration over the possibility of losing a series after being up 2-0, but I honest to goodness do not understand where you are coming from- you act like we are the Capitals with 120 points and it is Stanley Cup or bust. We are not. Both this year and last, we are matched up against teams with more talent and playoff experience than us, and we were decided underdogs in both.

I am not trying to polish anything, but there is no way in the world you can look at Laviolette's two seasons here and say it is crap. That is completely ridiculous....

 

[predfan98]

Funny you could take this post back ten years in time and it would have fit right in when we lost to the Sharks two years in a row, and four years ago when we lost to Phoenix.

Point being, Lavy has taken more talent than Trotz had in all but two of his seasons here, and given us exactly Trotzian results.

I am enjoying all of you who have taken up turd polishing trying to shine up Laviolettes crappiness.

hahaha..........agreed

 

[PredsV82]

Crappiness?? I just do not understand. When he was hired, we were a non playoff team. We had a 104 point season in year one- one in which we led the entire NHL for much of the season. Yes, we slumped at the end, I will give you that. Then in the playoffs we played the Stanley Cup champions off their butts- better than anyone else did. And we did that without Weber and Fisher. This year despite a poor first half we still almost had a 100 point season. And as we stand right now, we are down 3 games to 2 against a team that is considered one of the top 4 Stanley Cup contenders. We still may even win the series.

You call that crappiness?? What did you expect in these first 2 seasons? What would you have been satisfied with, or what would have had to have happened for you to not crap all over Laviolette as if we have had 2 horrible seasons.

I get the frustration over the possibility of losing a series after being up 2-0, but I honest to goodness do not understand where you are coming from- you act like we are the Capitals with 120 points and it is Stanley Cup or bust. We are not. Both this year and last, we are matched up against teams with more talent and playoff experience than us, and we were decided underdogs in both.

I am not trying to polish anything, but there is no way in the world you can look at Laviolette's two seasons here and say it is crap. That is completely ridiculous....

Youre missing the point. the main enduring criticism of trotz was that no matter how good the team, no matter how good the regular season was, he couldn't win in the playoffs.

And now youre defending Laviolette with the same argument that I used to defend trotz with.

And as an aside, despite the point total this season, the truth is this team underachieved its potential. We are a more talented team this year than we were last year and yet we garnered less points and finished lower in the standings, despite having our most injury free season in recent memory.

So just stating that we were a "non-playoff team" before and a playoff team now if not a valid argument for saying that Laviolette has done well here.

 

[drwpreds]

Youre missing the point. the main enduring criticism of trotz was that no matter how good the team, no matter how good the regular season was, he couldn't win in the playoffs.

And now youre defending Laviolette with the same argument that I used to defend trotz with.

And as an aside, despite the point total this season, the truth is this team underachieved its potential. We are a more talented team this year than we were last year and yet we garnered less points and finished lower in the standings, despite having our most injury free season in recent memory.

So just stating that we were a "non-playoff team" before and a playoff team now if not a valid argument for saying that Laviolette has done well here.

Still doesn’t make Laviolette’s performance here “crap†for these first two years.

You still didn’t tell me what your expectations for these first two years are- what would have prevented you from being critical?? Do you think we should have beaten Chicago last year without Weber and Fisher? Were you not satisfied with the team’s performance in that series?

Whatever you think about whether we underachieved or not during the season, the fact is we were heavy underdogs in both playoff series.

We are talking about year 2 for Laviolette. Trotz had way longer than that to achieve some playoff success. If we are still having this discussion 2 years from now then I will be right on board with you.

If we just win this game tonight and force a game 7, then we have done more than almost everyone in the hockey world thought we were going to do in this series.

What if we shock everyone and win this series? Is it still crap then?