FIRE Lavy

[NSH615]

Still doesn’t make Laviolette’s performance here “crap” for these first two years.

You still didn’t tell me what your expectations for these first two years are- what would have prevented you from being critical?? Do you think we should have beaten Chicago last year without Weber and Fisher? Were you not satisfied with the team’s performance in that series?

Whatever you think about whether we underachieved or not during the season, the fact is we were heavy underdogs in both playoff series.

We are talking about year 2 for Laviolette. Trotz had way longer than that to achieve some playoff success. If we are still having this discussion 2 years from now then I will be right on board with you.

If we just win this game tonight and force a game 7, then we have done more than almost everyone in the hockey world thought we were going to do in this series.

What if we shock everyone and win this series? Is it still crap then?

Injuries didn't prevent the Islanders from beating a good Florida team that everyone expected to advance, nor a good Tampa team from beating Detroit. A good team would have overcome and adapted if needed. Look at this Ducks team as another example, they ended the regular season with a boatload of injuries and still willed themselves to pull out an upset for the division title. This is and has been an average team and the team way overachieved last year. I put the average on Lavy because the team can be better, they have shown they can be better but have also shown long stretches of play that lacks motivation. Lavy and Co are at the top of the list when it comes to motivation, followed by the players in leadership. The problem with this team is when the going gets tough and the pressure is on, they crumble.

 

[Montross]

Injuries didn't prevent the Islanders from beating a good Florida team that everyone expected to advance, nor a good Tampa team from beating Detroit. A good team would have overcome and adapted if needed. Look at this Ducks team as another example, they ended the regular season with a boatload of injuries and still willed themselves to pull out an upset for the division title. This is and has been an average team and the team way overachieved last year. I put the average on Lavy because the team can be better, they have shown they can be better but have also shown long stretches of play that lacks motivation. Lavy and Co are at the top of the list when it comes to motivation, followed by the players in leadership. The problem with this team is when the going gets tough and the pressure is on, they crumble.

You are spot on. Leadership from the coaches is what is needed in the pressure of the playoffs especially when there is some adversity. This team doesn't thrive on it; it crumbles underneath it.
I watched Minnesota roar back in face of HUGE adversity their elimination game to be about as close as to tying it as possible. That is what I want to see from this team; it simply has not been there unfortunately. They can prove me wrong tonight - we shall see.

 

[drwpreds]

Injuries didn't prevent the Islanders from beating a good Florida team that everyone expected to advance, nor a good Tampa team from beating Detroit. A good team would have overcome and adapted if needed. Look at this Ducks team as another example, they ended the regular season with a boatload of injuries and still willed themselves to pull out an upset for the division title. This is and has been an average team and the team way overachieved last year. I put the average on Lavy because the team can be better, they have shown they can be better but have also shown long stretches of play that lacks motivation. Lavy and Co are at the top of the list when it comes to motivation, followed by the players in leadership. The problem with this team is when the going gets tough and the pressure is on, they crumble.

Terrible examples.

First, the Islanders are not missing a Weber type player. And Florida is a young team that isn't anything close to the freaking Blackhawks from last year. And I give Tampa credit for advancing without Stamkos, but they were also playing one of the two worst teams in the playoffs (along with Minnesota). They still have a much better roster than Detroit.

So you are not comparing apples to apples. We were playing the Cup champions, a team in the middle of a dynasty run. It is not even close to being comparable to the Islanders and Lightning this year.

(And oh by the way, the Islanders team that you are applauding- before last night they hadn't won a playoff series in TWENTY-THREE seasons)

So you consider it bad coaching (or a collapse or whatever you want to call it) that we didn't beat Chicago last year???

 

[NSH615]

Terrible examples.

First, the Islanders are not missing a Weber type player. And Florida is a young team that isn't anything close to the freaking Blackhawks from last year. And I give Tampa credit for advancing without Stamkos, but they were also playing one of the two worst teams in the playoffs (along with Minnesota). They still have a much better roster than Detroit.

So you are not comparing apples to apples. We were playing the Cup champions, a team in the middle of a dynasty run. It is not even close to being comparable to the Islanders and Lightning this year.

(And oh by the way, the Islanders team that you are applauding- before last night they hadn't won a playoff series in TWENTY-THREE seasons)

So you consider it bad coaching (or a collapse or whatever you want to call it) that we didn't beat Chicago last year???

Listing out the scratches as they do not typically list the injuries as IR during the playoffs.

Islanders Game 1:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Steve Bernier
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Brian Strait
Marek Zidlicky

Islanders Game 2:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Steve Bernier
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Brian Strait
Marek Zidlicky

Islanders Game 3:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Steve Bernier
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Brian Strait
Marek Zidlicky

Islanders Game 4:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Steve Bernier
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Brian Strait
Marek Zidlicky

Islanders Game 5:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Ryan Pulock
Brian Strait
Ryan Strome

Islanders Game 5:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Ryan Pulock
Brian Strait
Ryan Strome


While some of them may not be as big of a name as Weber/Fisher, these are some of the Islanders everyday players that are missing.

Another example is Pittsburgh. Missing #1 and #2 goalie to start and Malkin. They eventually got their #2 goalie back in game 3 and Malkin back in game 2 but again these are high profile players that were out. They rose to the occasion.

Bottom line is, top talented players are not stepping up and we lack secondary scoring to make up for it. Yes Forsberg had a hat trick last year and Willy scored 5 goals but where was everyone else? And this year, for the most part, nobody has shown up. 9 goals in 5 games is rather pathetic for this group. Lavy needs to make these guys accountable, but reality shows he is ok with this performance.

 

[triggrman]

Injuries didn't prevent the Islanders from beating a good Florida team that everyone expected to advance, nor a good Tampa team from beating Detroit. A good team would have overcome and adapted if needed. Look at this Ducks team as another example, they ended the regular season with a boatload of injuries and still willed themselves to pull out an upset for the division title. This is and has been an average team and the team way overachieved last year. I put the average on Lavy because the team can be better, they have shown they can be better but have also shown long stretches of play that lacks motivation. Lavy and Co are at the top of the list when it comes to motivation, followed by the players in leadership. The problem with this team is when the going gets tough and the pressure is on, they crumble.

You are spot on. Leadership from the coaches is what is needed in the pressure of the playoffs especially when there is some adversity. This team doesn't thrive on it; it crumbles underneath it.
I watched Minnesota roar back in face of HUGE adversity their elimination game to be about as close as to tying it as possible. That is what I want to see from this team; it simply has not been there unfortunately. They can prove me wrong tonight - we shall see.

So when the same thing happened when Trotz was the coach, was it his fault? Did he change or get better by going to Washington?

Terrible examples.

First, the Islanders are not missing a Weber type player. And Florida is a young team that isn't anything close to the freaking Blackhawks from last year. And I give Tampa credit for advancing without Stamkos, but they were also playing one of the two worst teams in the playoffs (along with Minnesota). They still have a much better roster than Detroit.

So you are not comparing apples to apples. We were playing the Cup champions, a team in the middle of a dynasty run. It is not even close to being comparable to the Islanders and Lightning this year.

(And oh by the way, the Islanders team that you are applauding- before last night they hadn't won a playoff series in TWENTY-THREE seasons)

So you consider it bad coaching (or a collapse or whatever you want to call it) that we didn't beat Chicago last year???

This is more my line of thinking too.

 

[triggrman]

Here's my list of who needs to step it up the most offensively

Neal
Ribeiro
Jarnkrok
Arvidsson

These guys have a total of 2 points in 5 games. That's pathetic with their icetime.

Ellis
Fisher
Ekholm

These guys too are getting a ton of icetime and need better results, none of these guys have more than 1 point. That's really bad.

Johansen seems to be doing a lot, he's just not getting finish from Neal and nothing at all from Jarnkrok.

And then the grinders need to contribute some, Anaheim's are.

Defensively, Ribeiro is a joke, but to me Josi hasn't been very good, in fact, I'd take Ellis or Ekholm over him in the defensive zone.

Rinne has to more out front of the play, he's not, he seems slow to react.

 

[NSH615]

Here's my list of who needs to step it up the most offensively

Neal
Ribeiro
Jarnkrok
Arvidsson

These guys have a total of 2 points in 5 games. That's pathetic with their icetime.

Ellis
Fisher
Ekholm

These guys too are getting a ton of icetime and need better results, none of these guys have more than 1 point. That's really bad.

Johansen seems to be doing a lot, he's just not getting finish from Neal and nothing at all from Jarnkrok.

And then the grinders need to contribute some, Anaheim's are.

Defensively, Ribeiro is a joke, but to me Josi hasn't been very good, in fact, I'd take Ellis or Ekholm over him in the defensive zone.

Rinne has to more out front of the play, he's not, he seems slow to react.

Where are Forsberg and Johansen on this list? I see you have Johansen listed later on, but seriously 1 goal each.

 

[triggrman]

Where are Forsberg and Johansen on this list? 1 goal each.

3 points in 5 games for Forsberg, isn't bad and Johansen is on there...

If Neal, Ribeiro, Jarnkrok, Fisher, Johansen and Arvidsson each had 3 points in 5 games, we'd be in a much better situation right now.

 

[drwpreds]

Listing out the scratches as they do not typically list the injuries as IR during the playoffs.

Islanders Game 1:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Steve Bernier
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Brian Strait
Marek Zidlicky

Islanders Game 2:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Steve Bernier
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Brian Strait
Marek Zidlicky

Islanders Game 3:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Steve Bernier
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Brian Strait
Marek Zidlicky

Islanders Game 4:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Steve Bernier
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Brian Strait
Marek Zidlicky

Islanders Game 5:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Ryan Pulock
Brian Strait
Ryan Strome

Islanders Game 5:
NEW YORK ISLANDERS SCRATCHES
Eric Boulton
Christopher Gibson
Mikhail Grabovski
Jaroslav Halak
Anders Lee
Adam Pelech
Ryan Pulock
Brian Strait
Ryan Strome


While some of them may not be as big of a name as Weber/Fisher, these are some of the Islanders everyday players that are missing.

Another example is Pittsburgh. Missing #1 and #2 goalie to start and Malkin. They eventually got their #2 goalie back in game 3 and Malkin back in game 2 but again these are high profile players that were out. They rose to the occasion.

Bottom line is, top talented players are not stepping up and we lack secondary scoring to make up for it. Yes Forsberg had a hat trick last year and Willy scored 5 goals but where was everyone else? And this year, for the most part, nobody has shown up. 9 goals in 5 games is rather pathetic for this group. Lavy needs to make these guys accountable, but reality shows he is ok with this performance.

Again, I ask you- do you think we should have beaten the Blackhawks last year? With or without Weber. Do you look back at our performance in that series and think it should be a black mark against Laviolette??

Its a simple question.

Any of the examples you mentioned above- how would they have done against the Blackhawks?? They would have been quickly eliminated. And if we had faced this year's Florida, Detroit, or NYR with last year's team, even without Weber, we would have beaten all 3 of them if we played anything close to the way we played last year.

Again, you are not comparing apples to apples.

I think the Preds absolutely stepped up last year in the playoffs. Were two OT decisions away from knocking the eventual Cup champions out of the playoffs.

 

[drwpreds]

3 points in 5 games for Forsberg, isn't bad and Johansen is on there...

If Neal, Ribeiro, Jarnkrok, Fisher, Johansen and Arvidsson each had 3 points in 5 games, we'd be in a much better situation right now.

One thing I would also point out is that sometimes it is dang hard to score in the playoffs. Look at the Capitals- they are one of the best teams in recent NHL history- heavy favorites to win the Cup- and they scored a total of TWO goals in their last 3 games, even worse than our 3 in 3 games.

The difference is they were able to shutdown their opponents and steal wins even when they can't score. I say this all the time- sometimes, especially in the playoffs, you have to win a 1-0 game or a 2-1 game. And THAT is what we have shown a complete inability to do. We simply can never shut an opponent down. No matter what we always find a way to give up crucial goals. The freaking Flyers did it twice to Washington, winning 2-1 and 1-0 games.

Game 4 and 5 were those types of games- where we needed a shutdown game to win 2-1/ 1-0.

Bottom line- I think our inability to shut teams down is a bigger problem than goal scoring, and it has been for awhile.

 

[triggrman]

One thing I would also point out is that sometimes it is dang hard to score in the playoffs. Look at the Capitals- they are one of the best teams in recent NHL history- heavy favorites to win the Cup- and they scored a total of TWO goals in their last 3 games, even worse than our 3 in 3 games.

The difference is they were able to shutdown their opponents and steal wins even when they can't score. I say this all the time- sometimes, especially in the playoffs, you have to win a 1-0 game or a 2-1 game. And THAT is what we have shown a complete inability to do. We simply can never shut an opponent down. No matter what we always find a way to give up crucial goals. The freaking Flyers did it twice to Washington, winning 2-1 and 1-0 games.

Game 4 and 5 were those types of games- where we needed a shutdown game to win 2-1/ 1-0.

Bottom line- I think our inability to shut teams down is a bigger problem than goal scoring, and it has been for awhile.

I agree.

And a lot of that has to do with the Weber - Josi pairing, IMHO, especially Josi.

But then we don't get lock down performances from either of our top 2 centers too, which hurts.

 

[Drake744]

This thread is hilarious.

 

[Predarat]

Why no Fire David Poile thread? Someone needs to start one.

 

[KurtAngle]

This thread is so silly started as a silly attempt to "Boy will I show those guys, now!"

There comes a time when 99.9% of coaches just outlive their usefulness. No matter what anyone thinks of Trotz that time had come here. I never believed we would ever progress much beyond his vision. He's a good coach, but he came into a different situation where his system works better, and to his credit he tweaked it for Ovechkin.

Lavy deserves a lot of blame, but it's ridiculous to seriously think of firing him and most know it. He did a very good job taking a underachieving and aging Rinne and mixing in Johansen and making a good run to the playoffs.

This happens again next year and we can talk. If you want to make the case that we treat Lavy just like Trotz, doesn't that mean we must give him at least 10 more years to see if he can make it?

 

[PredsV82]

Still doesn’t make Laviolette’s performance here “crap†for these first two years.

You still didn’t tell me what your expectations for these first two years are- what would have prevented you from being critical?? Do you think we should have beaten Chicago last year without Weber and Fisher? Were you not satisfied with the team’s performance in that series?

Whatever you think about whether we underachieved or not during the season, the fact is we were heavy underdogs in both playoff series.

We are talking about year 2 for Laviolette. Trotz had way longer than that to achieve some playoff success. If we are still having this discussion 2 years from now then I will be right on board with you.

If we just win this game tonight and force a game 7, then we have done more than almost everyone in the hockey world thought we were going to do in this series.

What if we shock everyone and win this series? Is it still crap then?

You can't look back and justify last year's two month slide into the playoffs by retroactively saying " well, we finished about where I thought we would at the start of the season" Expectations of barely making the playoffs and losing in round 1 were no longer valid when we were leading the entire NHL more than halfway through the season

And if we look like adjustments have been made and we play like a different team and win these next two I'll give credit where credit is due. But a better coach would have changed something before we lost three straight.

 

[PredsV82]

Yeah let's fire Lavy cause we got so much top shelf leadership just dying to come to an org that has no record of winning the post season and as an added bonus, shows no patience for instituting change. Brilliant.

Who says we need top shelf leadership in the form of an experienced coach. Maybe this is a time to let an up and coming coach have a shot

 

[PredsV82]

This thread is so silly started as a silly attempt to "Boy will I show those guys, now!"

There comes a time when 99.9% of coaches just outlive their usefulness. No matter what anyone thinks of Trotz that time had come here. I never believed we would ever progress much beyond his vision. He's a good coach, but he came into a different situation where his system works better, and to his credit he tweaked it for Ovechkin.

Lavy deserves a lot of blame, but it's ridiculous to seriously think of firing him and most know it. He did a very good job taking a underachieving and aging Rinne and mixing in Johansen and making a good run to the playoffs.

This happens again next year and we can talk. If you want to make the case that we treat Lavy just like Trotz, doesn't that mean we must give him at least 10 more years to see if he can make it?

Sorry to disappoint but this thread was started because I believe Laviolette has done a poor job coaching. This team obviously has the talent to play as well as anyone in the league but for two straight years we have had seasons with periods of brilliant play but each season has also had a two month stretch of horrible hockey, bad enough that it put the playoffs in jeopardy this year and cost us a division title and put us in a playoff series with Chicago in the first round last year

He doesn't seem to actually have a syaytem, and most damning of all he inexplicably failed to come up with a strategy for the 3 on 3, even to the point of not even practicing for it despite clear evidence that we were doing it worse than every other team in the league.

The Trotz talk is here to demonstrate the hypocrisy of those who defend Laviolette using the same arguments that Trotz defenders used to use on here except most of the time Trotz actually did have a legit excuse of lack of talent

 

[drwpreds]

You can't look back and justify last year's two month slide into the playoffs by retroactively saying " well, we finished about where I thought we would at the start of the season" Expectations of barely making the playoffs and losing in round 1 were no longer valid when we were leading the entire NHL more than halfway through the season

And if we look like adjustments have been made and we play like a different team and win these next two I'll give credit where credit is due. But a better coach would have changed something before we lost three straight.

We will just have to agree to disagree. You make it seem like all you have to do is make some adjustments and bam- we start winning. Its not that simple. Why didn't Daryl Sutter just make some adjustments against the Sharks? We are playing teams that are better and more experienced than us. It stinks but sometimes you are just going to lose. This is only year 2 of this current batch of Predators (and you could argue year 1 because of the Johansen trade). You almost always have to endure some severe pain in the playoffs before you have success. And to me, that is what we are going through now. But to day Laviolette has been crap since he's been here?? No way.

Again, if we are having this same discussion in two years, then I am right on board with you.

Not to mention the fact that WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN ELIMINATED YET. How ridiculous would this conversation be if we actually win this series???

 

[PredsV82]

We will just have to agree to disagree. You make it seem like all you have to do is make some adjustments and bam- we start winning. Its not that simple. Why didn't Daryl Sutter just make some adjustments against the Sharks? We are playing teams that are better and more experienced than us. It stinks but sometimes you are just going to lose. This is only year 2 of this current batch of Predators (and you could argue year 1 because of the Johansen trade). You almost always have to endure some severe pain in the playoffs before you have success. And to me, that is what we are going through now. But to day Laviolette has been crap since he's been here?? No way.

Again, if we are having this same discussion in two years, then I am right on board with you.

Not to mention the fact that WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN ELIMINATED YET. How ridiculous would this conversation be if we actually win this series???

If we come back and win this series I'll eat all the crow you want to serve up. But if we look as pathetic and hopeless tonight as we have the last three games, them you're going to hear this from me until next year's playoffs, at a minimum.

 

[deanwormer]

If we come back and win this series I'll eat all the crow you want to serve up. But if we look as pathetic and hopeless tonight as we have the last three games, them you're going to hear this from me until next year's playoffs, at a minimum.

As long as that crow-eating doesn't include some kinda' freaky Miley avatar.....

 

[glenngineer]

Maybe it has nothing to do with who's the coach or the GM, maybe it has to do with who the leadership is? The great players seem to play great in tough situations. Kane and Toews are two of the best. Justin Williams is a clutch guy when it counts. When have our big guns ever made a statement? Weber? Josi? Rinne? Neal? None of the big guys come out in big moments of games when we need them to be the best on the ice. We have never had that sort of player. It's an intangible that you really can't measure but certain guys shine in those situations and others don't. For as good as some of our guys are in the regular season, they just don't seem to get it done when it counts. I said it earlier in the year but Rinne is the one that has never had a monster post season and for those saying Quick and Lundy got knocked out this year, Quick has two rings to his name and Lundy has a Finals appearance.

At the end of the day all of this doesn't matter. It's just a freaking game.

 

[Viqsi]

I submit that Laviolette, while certainly different in style, is actually a worse coach than Trotz was, and if you don't agree with that then at least he is no upgrade.

I quite concur with this.

Lavy sucks, and he sucks big donkey balls

I am not seeing the jump to this. The situation has not looked good, and I agree that Lavi has not been nearly good enough so far. I am not yet convinced that he cannot pull that off, and I am not yet sold on the idea that we're going to find someone better all that promptly, and I am horrified at the prospect of both my teams turning into coaching carousels looking for Coach LightingInABottle.

I'm frustrated too, but I would rather we at least catch our breath before we call for someone's head. We're all frustrated and folks are going after the targets that they Always Knew Would Destroy Us All. Calm is urged.

* * *​

In the end you have to blame someone

The hell we do. Situations like this are never nearly that simple.

 

[hockey diva]

The ownership is not going to buy him and the other coaches out after only 2 seasons. Not sure they will even pressure Poile to do anything.

 

[drwpreds]

I quite concur with this.



I am not seeing the jump to this. The situation has not looked good, and I agree that Lavi has not been nearly good enough so far. .

Not to beat a dead horse, but people keep saying this- that he hasn't been "nearly good enough". This whole thread says he should be fired.

I detailed the record earlier- we have averaged a 100 point season under him, played the Cup champions off their butts in the playoffs last year, and this year, need just one win to take a series to 7 games that no one, not even our own fans, thought we would win going in.

You are telling me that is "not nearly good enough"???

Again I ask- what are your expectations for these first two years?? People on here act like we are the Chicago Blackhawks and its Cup or bust.

 

[Byrddog]

As long as that crow-eating doesn't include some kinda' freaky Miley avatar.....

Hey its growing on me.