Fire Ken Holland

[SK13]

We were a good team... in the regular season. If you're not good in the playoffs it doesn't matter how good you were in the regular season. And those Stanley Cup winning vets were easily pushed aside by Vegas.

If the Oilers make the playoffs but don't win a playoff round, do you consider that a successful season?

It's easy to forget that the Oilers were a non-playoff team 92 regular-season games ago. Since hiring Holland (and Tippett) the Oilers are 51-32-8. That has to be seen as serious progress. The fact that we're in a position where we can reasonably talk about the Oilers being a comfortable playoff team at all has to be seen as serious progress.

I don't really think any discussion about the Oilers' playoff performance makes sense at all. There haven't been any playoffs to judge. A play-in best-of-5 played after a 5 month layoff in August, with one warm-up game, is so inherently random and muddled that it's not worth thinking about beyond the obvious disappointment. It's certainly not something you make any actual roster judgments based on. Not if you want to actually key-in on things that will matter when hockey is somewhat normal.

TL;DR - I have no reason to think about the Oilers playoff performance and neither do you. The Oilers are a much better team in the less-than-100 games Holland has been our manager and that makes a thread like this premature and silly at best, and cringe worthy at worst.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Depends on the circumstances.

Barring major injuries there shouldn’t be any excuse. And even then we lost McDavid for a stretch last year and were still fine.

Year six of McDavid and we have one series win under our belts. Being one and done isn’t going to cut it at this point.

 

[Senor Catface]

You can be disappointed in how we played in the play-in and still call this a dumb topic BTW.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Barring major injuries there shouldn’t be any excuse.

Sure man.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Sure man.

Then lay out some circumstances because it’s weird to me that expecting this team to succeed is looked down upon.

 

[JBear]

We already have major injuries and at one point during our hot streak we were out 4 dmen

 

[redgrant]

Barring major injuries there shouldn’t be any excuse. And even then we lost McDavid for a stretch last year and were still fine.

Year six of McDavid and we have one series win under our belts. Being one and done isn’t going to cut it at this point.

Do you blame dubas for leafs failure to make the finals for 50+ years?

I have no idea how it's Holland's fault for the years chairelli was here and the manningesque mess he left Holland.

 

[GOilers88]

Then lay out some circumstances because it’s weird to me that expecting this team to succeed is looked down upon.

It's not that expecting them to succeed is being looked down on. It's that the Oilers weren't good enough to make the post season and that was unacceptable. Which I agree with, but based on the work Holland did in his first offseason they essentially made it without making it because of the covid cup.

Then this year started and the talk started again that they weren't good enough and that not making the playoffs is unacceptable. Which I still agree with. Then they went on, and continue to go on a heater and now making the playoffs isn't acceptable enough. Now it's either round 2 or failure.

I interpret this is "this team isn't good enough to make the playoffs, but since they did better than they were expected to last year now anything less than a couple of playoff rounds isn't good enough."

I don't see it as anything other than continual moving of the goalposts to satiate your own personal expectations despite the team outplaying the silly overreactions that happened last year and to start this year.

 

[DropTheGloves]

Do you blame dubas for leafs failure to make the finals for 50+ years?

I have no idea how it's Holland's fault for the years chairelli was here and the manningesque mess he left Holland.

Wait, so Dubas can’t be blamed for building a flawed team that is unable to win a round because the team hasn’t won a Cup in decades? Now I understand why criticizing Holland is off-limits to some here (though the actual logic behind that way of thinking still escapes me).

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

We were in 2nd place & well on our way to home ice advantage in a "Battle of Alberta" playoff series when a pandemic hit.

Let's stop pretending the Oilers made no progress last year because the NHL understandably had to change the rules &, in the process we got screwed & were forced to play a play-in round.

Chicago, despite being last in their division, had a winning record & a slew of proven players to lean on during an unprecedented restart after 4 months doing nothing that could even remotely be compared to playoff hockey. It's not like we lost to a team 48 points behind us in the standing or something.

I'd be upset if we don't win a playoff round this year because I believe we are now a legit playoff team but I'm not gonna use last year's "failure" as some kind of damning evidence that the GM has failed.

 

[DropTheGloves]

your OP is rightfully being called out (you must see how wrong it looks considering the Oilers play this year). Don’t take it personally.

I mean, there are posters making it personal. They follow me to other threads and even other boards to call me a troll, idiot, etc. and it’s beyond pathetic. It’s not enough to pollute HF Oilers with it- they are so offended that anyone dare criticize Dear Leader they take can’t control themselves elsewhere on the site.

 

[Aerchon]

I'm only going to stick my foot in this mess again to say.

It is the pro Holland group who are coming into this thread to try to retroactively claim, after going 11 and 2, that no one should have doubted Holland and no one should be upset about the poor play ins and the piss poor start.

All the Captain Hindsights need stop bumping this thread in an attempt to rewrite history.

 

[DropTheGloves]

I'm only going to stick my foot in this mess again to say.

It is the pro Holland group who are coming into this thread to try to retroactively claim, after going 11 and 2, that no one should have doubted Holland and no one should be upset about the poor play ins and the piss poor start.

All the Captain Hindsights need stop bumping this thread in an attempt to rewrite history.

I think you said it best up thread- if every win proves the pro-Holland crew “right”, every loss proves the doubters right. I didn’t make this thread lightly, it was not based on a knee jerk reaction to a single game but rather a pattern of poor decisions that were costing us winnable games earlier in the season. If anything it’s the pro-Holland posters who are unable to see beyond the most recent box score and think critically about anything but that.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

I'm only going to stick my foot in this mess again to say.

It is the pro Holland group who are coming into this thread to try to retroactively claim, after going 11 and 2, that no one should have doubted Holland and no one should be upset about the poor play ins and the piss poor start.

All the Captain Hindsights need stop bumping this thread in an attempt to rewrite history.

No, that's not true.

I only entered this thread because you tried to claim that advocating for his firing was on the side of rational thought & that all the defenders should now take a "wait & see" attitude which was basically what they were telling you & the "run Holland out of town" crowd all along.

 

[Aerchon]

To which I was replying to someone else... and your point in no more valid now than then. Agree to disagree and move on.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Do you blame dubas for leafs failure to make the finals for 50+ years?

I have no idea how it's Holland's fault for the years chairelli was here and the manningesque mess he left Holland.

If the Oilers fail this year he bares some responsibility. He can’t get credit for their success and not be blamed if they don’t.

 

[Jumptheshark]

this is a fun thread

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

If the Oilers fail this year he bares some responsibility. He can’t get credit for their success and not be blamed if they don’t.

I agree.

 

[redgrant]

Wait, so Dubas can’t be blamed for building a flawed team that is unable to win a round because the team hasn’t won a Cup in decades? Now I understand why criticizing Holland is off-limits to some here (though the actual logic behind that way of thinking still escapes me).

My comment was in regards to the my response of mcdavid being here 6 years. Well I have no idea what that has to do with Ken Holland. Mcdavid could be here for 15 years before Holland how is that his fault the team didn't win in his "window"?

 

[redgrant]

If the Oilers fail this year he bares some responsibility. He can’t get credit for their success and not be blamed if they don’t.

Explain what move would you have liked him to do? I mean I'll say I'd prefer another backup to Mike Smith but aside from that he has next to no flexibility.

Out of benning, treleving, bergevin, Dorian, dubas, chevedeyoff I think it's him and dubas that have done the best.

There is no imaginary gm that doesn't have some misses. Hollands hits far exceed his misses considering he's maneuvering from the biblical mess chairelli left him with.

 

[Oilslick941611]

welcome back all the posters who have been away for recent streak.

 

[DropTheGloves]

welcome back all the posters who have been away for recent streak.

You'll notice the thread was being repeatedly bumped even during that time. Really blows a hole in your theory that only those critical of Holland were keeping it afloat, eh?

 

[Oilslick941611]

You'll notice the thread was being repeatedly bumped even during that time. Really blows a hole in your theory that only those critical of Holland were keeping it afloat, eh?

there's a toxic contingent of posters here that only post when the team is losing or there is something to whine about and then completely disappear when the team wins.

 

[DropTheGloves]

there's a toxic contingent of posters here that only post when the team is losing or there is something to whine about and then completely disappear when the team wins.

But how can they be posting in this thread if they disappeared when the team was winning? One of those things can't be true.

 

[Oilslick941611]

But how can they be posting in this thread if they disappeared when the team was winning? One of those things can't be true.

you know exactly what I mean

you are one these posters.