Fire/Don't Fire/Discuss Torts II

[Monstershockey]

Without ungodly goaltending last year he’s not in the conversation

Everyone wants to blame him for the offense and power play, he should get credit for the defense and goaltending also. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Monk]

Everyone wants to blame him for the offense and power play, he should get credit for the defense and goaltending also. Can't have it both ways.

And just winning damn games. If the team is consistently seen as "overperforming" its roster, surely the coach is a massive reason why.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Everyone wants to blame him for the offense and power play, he should get credit for the defense and goaltending also. Can't have it both ways.

exactly the problem.... sacrificing offense to try to win games 2-1. He's had a top 10 powerplay 1 time in his nhl coaching career. What player will willingly want to come here as a destination, sacrifice future earnings to go to a team that has squeaked in the playoffs, and only gotten to the 2nd round once ?

 

[Monk]

exactly the problem.... sacrificing offense to try to win games 2-1. He's had a top 10 powerplay 1 time in his nhl coaching career. What player will willingly want to come here as a destination, sacrifice future earnings to go to a team that has squeaked in the playoffs, and only gotten to the 2nd round once ?

...so you'd prefer he... not try to win games?

 

[KJ Dangler]

...so you'd prefer he... not try to win games?

If its at the cost of stifling the offensive development of young players, never attracting talented free agents to sign here, and producing a result that squeaks into the playoffs as the 8 seed, and constantly go up against the best team in the league in round 1..... nope, thats not Jarmo, nor the cbj's end game.

 

[Monk]

If its at the cost of stifling the offensive development of young players, never attracting talented free agents to sign here, and producing a result that squeaks into the playoffs as the 8 seed, and constantly go up against the best team in the league in round 1..... nope, thats not Jarmo, nor the cbj's end game.

Huh. Losing games for the first 15 years of CBJ's existence didn't seem to make them better, so seems like it was time to take a shot at winning them. #Tankforsomeone next year I guess.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Huh. Losing games for the first 15 years of CBJ's existence didn't seem to make them better, so seems like it was time to take a shot at winning them. #Tankforsomeone next year I guess.

Talent level is vastly different than it was in those days . Like I said, I like Torts the person, and appreciate the culture hes brought in. His personality/ coaching style has major drawbacks as well. His reputation is well known. His comfort level is playing the likes of Foligno, Jenner.. PLD was 5th in ice time in the forward group . There is a fine balance of winning games, and developing players so your your ceiling is reached. Torts is not a good fit for a draft and develop franchise. Look at the players Jarmo is drafting.. will they Flourish in Torts defense first system ?

 

[Monk]

Talent level is vastly different than it was in those days . Like I said, I like Torts the person, and appreciate the culture hes brought in. His personality/ coaching style has major drawbacks as well. His reputation is well known. His comfort level is playing the likes of Foligno, Jenner.. PLD was 5th in ice time in the forward group . There is a fine balance of winning games, and developing players so your your ceiling is reached. Torts is not a good fit for a draft and develop franchise. Look at the players Jarmo is drafting.. will they Flourish in Torts defense first system ?

Bah. I was about to have the exact same conversation majormajor already had with you apparently. Back to the ignore list you go, I don't know wtf I was thinking. Good day.

 

[Monstershockey]

Talent level is vastly different than it was in those days . Like I said, I like Torts the person, and appreciate the culture hes brought in. His personality/ coaching style has major drawbacks as well. His reputation is well known. His comfort level is playing the likes of Foligno, Jenner.. PLD was 5th in ice time in the forward group . There is a fine balance of winning games, and developing players so your your ceiling is reached. Torts is not a good fit for a draft and develop franchise. Look at the players Jarmo is drafting.. will they Flourish in Torts defense first system ?

Torts said all year the beef with PLD is he would get in his doghouse when he felt he wasn't playing the way he is capable of. Many people here would notice it too because they would say he looks like he is mailing it in. He does seem to go into funks like that. Thing I want to know is, how come, playing in the same stifiling offensive system, a guy like Bjorkstrand was able to find his shot, and once he started scoring basically finished the season shooting at an almost 25 percent clip. I mean, if Bjork can do it, why couldn't PLD? They were both playing the same system. That is probably why he was 5th in ice time. The system had nothing to do with it. Sometimes PLD is just lazy.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The things we're hanging Torts out to dry over are the very things we celebrated his hiring for.

My thoughts on Torts have evolved over his time here, so to put my own thoughts into context, I went back to the thread about his hire. I'm obviously sharing these few short posts because they ask the question I'm trying to ask also. I'm not going to ID these comments, because pointing fingers is not the point, juxtaposing thoughts on Torts is.

Why is Tortorella being demanding of young players considered a bad thing?

… frankly this team needs a huge kick in the ass. Now we'll find out who really wants to be here, work their tail off and win for this club and city.

I agree Joey does not fits Tort's style. That is the point!!! Maybe it is time for Joey to become an adult.

Exactly. It's Johansen's job to make the coach happy, not the other way around.

If indeed it is Torts that is the reason PLD asked out (and I don't know that it is), aren't we getting exactly what some hoped for?

 

[JacketsDavid]

Huh. Losing games for the first 15 years of CBJ's existence didn't seem to make them better, so seems like it was time to take a shot at winning them. #Tankforsomeone next year I guess.

Here's the thing. We turned things around with Hitch. Like others on this board I was in the STH event where ownership and management was saying Hitch was in control (it was a "Hitch Team") which is really similar to a Torts team.
Then the next year a few of the younger players started revolting because they wanted to open things up. Management let Hitch go and the team flopped. Whether you blame ownership, management or Captain Nash there was plenty of blame to go around. But that change didn't improve things until Torts came around.

We're not at that level yet but if PLD does want out (and it seems like by all accounts it is true) then ownership better be evaluating why he wants out. Is it the coach? Is it the city? Is it Management with salary negotiations? To me they had better quickly understand the problem. Maybe it is because he is a young man and he he seen other players (most of it outside the NHL) force their way out and to where they want to play. Who knows but they need to understand the problem and hopefully address it (if possible).

 

[Monk]

Here's the thing. We turned things around with Hitch. Like others on this board I was in the STH event where ownership and management was saying Hitch was in control (it was a "Hitch Team") which is really similar to a Torts team.
Then the next year a few of the younger players started revolting because they wanted to open things up. Management let Hitch go and the team flopped. Whether you blame ownership, management or Captain Nash there was plenty of blame to go around. But that change didn't improve things until Torts came around.

We're not at that level yet but if PLD does want out (and it seems like by all accounts it is true) then ownership better be evaluating why he wants out. Is it the coach? Is it the city? Is it Management with salary negotiations? To me they had better quickly understand the problem. Maybe it is because he is a young man and he he seen other players (most of it outside the NHL) force their way out and to where they want to play. Who knows but they need to understand the problem and hopefully address it (if possible).

Personally, I think he's of a generation that understands they not only don't have to do what "the authority" tells them to, it may likely lead to a happier life for themselves if they do not. The "do right by" mentality has always favored "the authority" and the younger generation is realizing it. He doesn't have to tell us what the real reason is. I'm curious for sure, but don't really care.

What does he owe the team or the city of Columbus? 2-4 years. And he said he's gonna do it like a pro. Good for him.

How do you balance this emerging understanding with pro sports contracts and roster management? Beats me.

 

[majormajor]

The things we're hanging Torts out to dry over are the very things we celebrated his hiring for.

My thoughts on Torts have evolved over his time here, so to put my own thoughts into context, I went back to the thread about his hire. I'm obviously sharing these few short posts because they ask the question I'm trying to ask also. I'm not going to ID these comments, because pointing fingers is not the point, juxtaposing thoughts on Torts is.



If indeed it is Torts that is the reason PLD asked out (and I don't know that it is), aren't we getting exactly what some hoped for?

That's been my attitude anytime there is coach-player conflict. You need to go with the chain of command or things fall apart.

This debacle has pushed me over the edge though. It's not just Dubois - the six or seven most important players on the team are all about to hit RFA or UFA. And if Torts is greatly contributing to this being a miserable team to play for then that can't continue. It may be time to swing back towards a players' coach.

 

[DJA]

Personally, I think he's of a generation that understands they not only don't have to do what "the authority" tells them to, it may likely lead to a happier life for themselves if they do not. The "do right by" mentality has always favored "the authority" and the younger generation is realizing it. He doesn't have to tell us what the real reason is. I'm curious for sure, but don't really care.

What does he owe the team or the city of Columbus? 2-4 years. And he said he's gonna do it like a pro. Good for him.

How do you balance this emerging understanding with pro sports contracts and roster management? Beats me.

I think in the next 2 years there will be a reckoning on whether the city of Columbus can support an NHL team, or if McConnell wants to stomach both the Covid losses and the "new mentality" you referenced above. These departures have terrible optics, regardless of the reason. People just see this as "no one wants to play in Columbus". They're not particularly interested in the reasons, as evidence by the mains and on social media and amongst some members of the legit NHL media. Cam and Nick can make as many local commercials as they like, but it can only do so much. If Seth walks/wants out and we continue to avoid the UFA market/the UFA market avoids us, I'm not sure about the viability going forward if McConnell won't be sniffing around for someone to take this mess off his hands. What's the point if we can't attract anyone or if everyone we develop wants to force their way out at the earliest opportunity?

 

[Monk]

I think in the next 2 years there will be a reckoning on whether the city of Columbus can support an NHL team, or if McConnell wants to stomach both the Covid losses and the "new mentality" you referenced above. These departures have terrible optics, regardless of the reason. People just see this as "no one wants to play in Columbus". They're not particularly interested in the reasons, as evidence by the mains and on social media and amongst some members of the legit NHL media. Cam and Nick can make as many local commercials as they like, but it can only do so much. If Seth walks/wants out and we continue to avoid the UFA market/the UFA market avoids us, I'm not sure about the viability going forward if McConnell won't be sniffing around for someone to take this mess off his hands. What's the point if we can't attract anyone or if everyone we develop wants to force their way out at the earliest opportunity?

It's a bummer because the fans have proven they can support a winning team.

Interestingly, I think new-and-improved Torts is the perfect coach for this new mentality. Perhaps there's some truth to the "Jarmo turns players off with his negotiating style" stuff - I still support Jarmo on that front - but I don't think that's at play here. I really can't even begin to guess the cause of this one.

 

[BluejacketNut]

As mentioned, the reason is becoming irrelevant. Whatever the reason is, it better be figured out fast. We’ve had far too many talented players wanting to get the f out of dodge. You are not going to win in this league without talent, and if you can’t attract talent, you better not miss on any draft picks and you better be damn good at developing young talent

 

[KJ Dangler]

I find it laughable that jarmo can get deals done with other gms , but his negotiating style is reason people would request a trade . Not to mention our front office is seen as such an asset the panthers just took our associate Gm , and a couple support staff .

 

[koteka]

I think in the next 2 years there will be a reckoning on whether the city of Columbus can support an NHL team, or if McConnell wants to stomach both the Covid losses and the "new mentality" you referenced above.

My question is, if McConnell wants to sell, who would buy the team and keep it in Columbus?

The richest Ohioan is Les Wexner. You also have the guy that got rich off of Iams pet food, and the lady that owns the 49ers. These are billionaires, but they are worth like $2 or $3 billion, not some crazy amount where they could drop several hundred million on a hockey team without batting an eye. Would Jimmy Haslam step up and buy a third pro team in Ohio?

Anyone else buying the team probably wouldn’t be tied to the idea of keeping the team in Columbus.

The best thing going for Columbus is we are a growing city with a young population. We are a stronger hockey market than Phoenix and Miami. It also does not hurt that Atlanta has been already had a team and lost it and San Diego couldn’t keep an NFL team, so other viable locations are limited.

 

[DJA]

My question is, if McConnell wants to sell, who would buy the team and keep it in Columbus?

The richest Ohioan is Les Wexner. You also have the guy that got rich off of Iams pet food, and the lady that owns the 49ers. These are billionaires, but they are worth like $2 or $3 billion, not some crazy amount where they could drop several hundred million on a hockey team without batting an eye. Would Jimmy Haslam step up and buy a third pro team in Ohio?

Anyone else buying the team probably wouldn’t be tied to the idea of keeping the team in Columbus.

The best thing going for Columbus is we are a growing city with a young population. We are a stronger hockey market than Phoenix and Miami. It also does not hurt that Atlanta has been already had a team and lost it and San Diego couldn’t keep an NFL team, so other viable locations are limited.

Haslam would probably be the most feasible but I’m not sure how interested he’d be. I doubt Wexner has any interest in owning a sports team. The lack of money to improve Nationwide Arena also concerns me. A move to Quebec or Houston or a second Toronto team is not out of the question.

 

[MAHJ71]

The PLD drama is enough for me.

I refuse to go down a team is moving rabbit hole in a Torts thread.

 

[majormajor]

The PLD drama is enough for me.

I refuse to go down a team is moving rabbit hole in a Torts thread.

Yeah we're doing that thing where something bad happens to us so we start imagining all of the other bad things that can happen to us. Funny how the brain works.

 

[Monk]

I'm still a bit salty that Colorado took Bednar away from us. Even more so with what he has done with that team.

See the first name on this list: 5 NHL head coaches on the hot seat entering the season

Big grain of salt with that but interesting nonetheless.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

See the first name on this list: 5 NHL head coaches on the hot seat entering the season

Big grain of salt with that but interesting nonetheless.

Wow. that is pretty presumptuous considering how far the team went and I believe they were playing a 3rd string goalie in the playoffs. I feel like they wanted to put together a list of 5 but could only think of 4 so they drew names out of a hat.

 

[majormajor]

See the first name on this list: 5 NHL head coaches on the hot seat entering the season

Big grain of salt with that but interesting nonetheless.

That's phony baloney. No one at any level pins last year's exit on him. Bednar would not be fired this year even if they have a disappointing finish.

 

[Monk]

That's phony baloney. No one at any level pins last year's exit on him. Bednar would not be fired this year even if they have a disappointing finish.

Yep. It's an extra stupid article because it's about coaches on the hot seat heading into the season yet re the first coach on the list (Bednar) he specifically says he wouldn't be on the hot seat unless they underachieve next year. Which is perhaps more plausible though still unlikely. Probably just for da clicks.

But when I saw it, I thought to myself "Iron Balls should see this."