Fire Deboer

[CrypTic]

Looking at the WOWYs, Vlasic does really well with guys who are good PMDs, in limited minutes. So I think he could do well if he was paired up with any of Burns or Heed, assuming he re-signs, or Schlemko but it definitely changes the nature of our lineup. You probably couldn't play that pairing as the hard shutdown pairing minute

I agree. It's the same argument ppl had when contemplating signing Shattenkirk at the TDL: Do you pair him with Vlasic or put him on the third pairing with lots of PP minutes? If you put him with Vlasic, you're making a big change to the nature of that pairing. Is it worth losing the shutdown pairing to get more balanced pairs? I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that it's a good or bad thing to do until you see how it plays out. (And hope that your coach is willing to experiment in the regular season and make adjustments based on the results.)

 

[Sleepy]

1. Keep DeBoer
2. Fire Spott, just give his salary to Thornton
3. Re-tune lineup: This team may benefit from moving some combination of Pavs/Braun/Ward and trash (Boedker, Hansen, Martin, etc).
4. Acquire someone fast enough to skate with our top 6 and who can actually throw a check
5. Abandon the idea of a "shutdown" pairing. Always hated it and just allows teams to say "oh cool, dont have to worry about defensive responsibility this shift LoLBraun. Ill just jump every 50/50 puck with no downside here"

Our most impactful checks this series were from Hertl. If that doesn't tell DW his team is deficient in this area I don't know what will.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

If Burns hadn't completely stranded him on the blueline and skated literally to the crease waiting for a pass despite us only being down 1 goal 1 minute into the 2nd, that wouldn't have been a clean breakaway.

Add the fact Tierney's pass wasn't as great as I originally thought.

Whole lot of blame to go.around on that play.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

This season was weird as hell. The team never found a groove. Oh well.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

This season was weird as hell. The team never found a groove. Oh well.

I'd say from November to February was a pretty nice groove. It just felt like down the stretch the team was figured out and didn't know how to adjust to it.

 

[Alwalys]

I'd say from November to February was a pretty nice groove. It just felt like down the stretch the team was figured out and didn't know how to adjust to it.

well, brent burns was figured out, or just went terribly cold, and he didn't know how to adjust to it.

maybe they needed to do something to "get him going"

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I'd say from November to February was a pretty nice groove. It just felt like down the stretch the team was figured out and didn't know how to adjust to it.

They won games but it was because of the top guys. It definitely wasn't like last year. Tthey were a tired team by the time the playoffs started. Tired and beat up and playing like trash.

 

[stator]

Since the top guys are used on the PP, going 5 for 24 in total with four games in the series with no PP goals but with chances, the top guys were a problem. All but one of those PP goals came only from one game.

- Pavelski only scored goals in the series which came from one game where he had two goals.
- Thornton only had one assist at ES, and one assist in the PP for the series.
- The top assists in the playoffs for a forward goes to Ward.
- Schlemko is tied for 2nd most goals scored in the series.

Sharks sucked all the way around... top, middle, bottom, in the net, and the coaches behind the bench.

The top forwards on the 1st line only really contributed to win one game which was that rout of the Oilers, 7-0.

Playoff performance of the top guys shouldn't be sugar coated as they did not deserve it. Maybe, exclude Marleau as his performance was decent, but DeBoer really does not use him on the top units much.

First up to blame in this playoff series is DeBoer. He failed to integrate the speed guys that DW acquired in the offseason and at the TDL. He failed to integrate the younger guys on the team and from the Cudas . He had no excuses not to do this because Thornton sucked all year and never turned it on like last season.

Thornton's injury near the end of the season was too late to start planning on an alternative to be ready for the playoffs. The youth movement in today's NHL is more prevalent than the traditional NHL. If DeBoer cannot adjust with it, he's days are numbered being an NHL head coach.

My preference in order is to:

1- Fire DeBoer if there is a coach available that's a better match for the speed and youth game that brings a much more aggressive offense. If not, keep him one more year.
2- Don't sign Marleau or Thornton. Does anyone really believe this team, kept intact, has any real shot being the cup champions at the end of next season?
3- Extend Vlasic and Jones.
4- Send off Martin, Ward, and Dillon.
5- Turn the reigns of the top center duties over to Couture and Hertl.
6- Look for a top-tier backup goalie (here we are again, never can seem to solve the goalie positions top and bottom).
7- Extend Hansen.
8- Slot in higher on the depth chart the younger guys since there's more slots.
9- Acquire the needs that are left.

The problem is this offseason is an expansion draft year (or decade), and too much advantageous are given to LV like no other expansion draft in the past. Maybe DW can work it to his favor. I'm sure he is being paid enough to make things like this happen.

 

[DG93]

1- Fire DeBoer if there is a coach available that's a better match for the speed and youth game that brings a much more aggressive offense. If not, keep him one more year.
2- Don't sign Marleau or Thornton. Does anyone really believe this team, kept intact, has any real shot being the cup champions at the end of next season?
3- Extend Vlasic and Jones.
4- Send off Martin, Ward, and Dillon.
5- Turn the reigns of the top center duties over to Couture and Hertl.
6- Look for a top-tier backup goalie (here we are again, never can seem to solve the goalie positions top and bottom).
7- Extend Hansen.
8- Slot in higher on the depth chart the younger guys since there's more slots.
9- Acquire the needs that are left.

If you go with #2, then #3 (especially the Vlasic part), #5, and #7 make no sense. If Jumbo/Patty leave, the window is 100% closed. The only way to prevent that would be to trade for a true 1C like Tavares, which means Couture++ imo

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Sooo the difference between us sucking and not sucking is JT and Patty?. Im not convinced.

 

[hohosaregood]

We'd probably still suck with JT and Patty. We've definitely had trouble getting scoring from lines other than the Thornton line and PP.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Sooo the difference between us sucking and not sucking is JT and Patty?. Im not convinced.

No, but the difference between contending and being a bubble team is.

 

[SjMilhouse]

Issue: Lack of depth scoring

Solution: promote depth guys to replace aging Thornton/Marleau

 

[Barrie22]

Issue: Lack of depth scoring

Solution: promote depth guys to replace aging Thornton/Marleau

Outcome miss playoffs.

 

[Ninja Hertl]

How typical is it for teams with such bottom-end special teams to make it the playoffs in general? Would be interesting to see how the sharks stacked up against the average.

 

[Barrie22]

How typical is it for teams with such bottom-end special teams to make it the playoffs in general? Would be interesting to see how the sharks stacked up against the average.

Boston won the cup with the 20th ranked pp% and 16th ranked pk%.

And in the playoffs it 14th in pp% and 6th in pk%

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Sooo the difference between us sucking and not sucking is JT and Patty?. Im not convinced.

That all depends on how you define sucking. I can see losing Thornton and Marleau as the difference between making and missing the playoffs. They will probably still compete for the last spot but losing what Thornton brings impacts a lot of things and a lot of players including Pavelski. Marleau is replaceable with a scorer as is Pavs at this point but finding those players to bring in is becoming increasingly difficult. Losing any of Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, Burns, Vlasic, and Jones can have a significant negative impact on their playoff chances if not replaced.

But even if they squeak in w/o Thornton and Marleau w/o suitable replacements, they have no chance in hell of going anywhere come playoff time given what Edmonton is going to be, the kind of depth that Anaheim has in comparison, and what the Flames may be soon as well. So it comes down to the question of whether you bang your head against the wall hoping that a mediocre team with no real superstar quality player performs a miracle or go through the dreaded rebuilding process to find one.

I'm willing to give the team as it is one more year if they're willing to come back. They played a crap ton of hockey in the past calendar year and a longer off-season will likely help them and the younger guys creeping their way into the lineup. But beyond that, I'm only keeping Marleau so long as he wants to stay here. If we're blowing the team up this year or next year, I'm not re-signing Jones and Vlasic. I'm not re-signing Thornton if they don't get the job done. I'm obviously letting Hansen and/or Ward walk if they're even here through next season. And I'm looking to trade everyone else including Burns, Pavelski, and Couture.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

That all depends on how you define sucking. I can see losing Thornton and Marleau as the difference between making and missing the playoffs. They will probably still compete for the last spot but losing what Thornton brings impacts a lot of things and a lot of players including Pavelski. Marleau is replaceable with a scorer as is Pavs at this point but finding those players to bring in is becoming increasingly difficult. Losing any of Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, Burns, Vlasic, and Jones can have a significant negative impact on their playoff chances if not replaced.

But even if they squeak in w/o Thornton and Marleau w/o suitable replacements, they have no chance in hell of going anywhere come playoff time given what Edmonton is going to be, the kind of depth that Anaheim has in comparison, and what the Flames may be soon as well. So it comes down to the question of whether you bang your head against the wall hoping that a mediocre team with no real superstar quality player performs a miracle or go through the dreaded rebuilding process to find one.

I'm willing to give the team as it is one more year if they're willing to come back. They played a crap ton of hockey in the past calendar year and a longer off-season will likely help them and the younger guys creeping their way into the lineup. But beyond that, I'm only keeping Marleau so long as he wants to stay here. If we're blowing the team up this year or next year, I'm not re-signing Jones and Vlasic. I'm not re-signing Thornton if they don't get the job done. I'm obviously letting Hansen and/or Ward walk if they're even here through next season. And I'm looking to trade everyone else including Burns, Pavelski, and Couture.

This is a very tough call. I am leaning towards one more year as well but I really do not have enough faith that this team gets it done next year. I don't know how much Vlasic can get us in value if we trade him at the TDL next year (as opposed to now). I think Jones will probably get us no more than a 2nd round pick at next years TDL. Letting them walk would be bad though.

Either way, I think next year is going to be our best chance for years to come. 2018-19 is going to be a very different team than what we looked like this year. If not, then we are honestly ****ed long term because to me that would look like DW wants to rebuild around an older core.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This is a very tough call. I am leaning towards one more year as well but I really do not have enough faith that this team gets it done next year. I don't know how much Vlasic can get us in value if we trade him at the TDL next year (as opposed to now). I think Jones will probably get us no more than a 2nd round pick at next years TDL. Letting them walk would be bad though.

Either way, I think next year is going to be our best chance for years to come. 2018-19 is going to be a very different team than what we looked like this year. If not, then we are honestly ****ed long term because to me that would look like DW wants to rebuild around an older core.

I don't think they get it done either as the team is currently constructed but I do think they are maybe one quality piece, like say a Kovalchuk, away from being there. If we're going for it next year, we're only moving Vlasic at the deadline if we implode somehow. Other than that scenario, Vlasic would be walking if that's it for us. The other thing though to consider at that point is that if they do manage to get the job done, they would probably make another go of it. haha

If I'm DW and I know whether 12 and 19 are staying, you're not even thinking about moving Vlasic or Jones so it won't matter. But if they're leaving, everything should be on the table when the season is over. I have a hard time believing that the boys in their prime or later are going to want to stick around if Thornton and Marleau aren't there. Whether they're the difference between making the playoffs or not may not matter to them. They certainly would impact their ability to win the Cup to a point that they want a better shot. In the cases of Vlasic, Burns, Couture, and Pavelski, their clauses may impact their trade value depending on how strict they are to those terms.

 

[Sharksrule04]

My preference in order is to:

1- Fire DeBoer if there is a coach available that's a better match for the speed and youth game that brings a much more aggressive offense. If not, keep him one more year.
2- Don't sign Marleau or Thornton. Does anyone really believe this team, kept intact, has any real shot being the cup champions at the end of next season?
3- Extend Vlasic and Jones.
4- Send off Martin, Ward, and Dillon.
5- Turn the reigns of the top center duties over to Couture and Hertl.
6- Look for a top-tier backup goalie (here we are again, never can seem to solve the goalie positions top and bottom).
7- Extend Hansen.
8- Slot in higher on the depth chart the younger guys since there's more slots.
9- Acquire the needs that are left.

No one has an issue with this? Dell was possibly the best backup in the league this year. No list should have this on there. The only part of this list I can agree with is number 4. I don't even know if I want to extend Hansen yet.

 

[hohosaregood]

No one has an issue with this? Dell was possibly the best backup in the league this year. No list should have this on there. The only part of this list I can agree with is number 4. I don't even know if I want to extend Hansen yet.

I think we should get Enroth.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

No one has an issue with this? Dell was possibly the best backup in the league this year. No list should have this on there. The only part of this list I can agree with is number 4. I don't even know if I want to extend Hansen yet.

With stator, it's difficult for me to get to everything I would have an issue with. lol

 

[Sysreq]

Sooo the difference between us sucking and not sucking is JT and Patty?. Im not convinced.

As constructed, yeah. But keep in mind that they represent 13 million in cap space and roughly 1.2 points per game. Just going off P1s, they accounted for probably around 60 of our 219 goals this season.

So yeah, if we plug in replacement level players there, we are definitely going to be a bottom-tier team. But that would never happen. We would go out, make trades and do our best to mitigate that loss. I think Doug has been looking. We keep popping up as a team in the running for guys like Stamkos, etc. I think Doug is willing to take on significant cap for a franchise level player right now.

 

[Sleepy]

No one has an issue with this? Dell was possibly the best backup in the league this year. No list should have this on there. The only part of this list I can agree with is number 4. I don't even know if I want to extend Hansen yet.

I agree with everything you just said. There is no point in letting JT/PM go unless you're going full tank, which includes trading away Pavs and possibly Couture/Burns/Vlasic. And San Jose doesn't just "acquire" a franchise player with $12M in cap space. You need the cap space + a bunch of assets in trade. Free agent's aren't flocking to an aging team in a non-traditional market.

 

[DG93]

No one has an issue with this? Dell was possibly the best backup in the league this year. No list should have this on there. The only part of this list I can agree with is number 4. I don't even know if I want to extend Hansen yet.

I just missed that lol...was a lot more confused as to why the Sharks would re-sign Vlasic and keep Couture if they are moving on from JT/Patty. But yes, Dell is perfectly fine as a backup...DeBoer just needs to f***ing use him more.