Fire Deboer
- Thread starter Levie
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Fistfullofbeer
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I am not sure I agree with this. The way we were playing towards the end of the season (even before the injuries), we looked like a 1st round exit waiting to happen.
It looks like everything that could go wrong this season went wrong. There is a long list of things. From coaching to how individual players actually regressing or just not playing upto expectations.
Boedker, Hertl, Ward, Jumbo, Donskoi, Jones, etc. all did not perform as well as they were expected to.
The Special Teams was **** for most of the year. As expected, did not change during the playoffs (with the exception of game 4).
Pavs just cannot keep up with anyone on the ice anymore. Our top-6 is not fast and has issues matching up with other teams which are younger and faster. Ward is nothing but a 4th line player at this time.
I am very frustrated with the way this season worked out for us. That being said, I am not as upset about the 1st round exit because it was actually expected given how we played through the latter part of the year.
Pavs just cannot keep up with anyone on the ice anymore. Our top-6 is not fast and has issues matching up with other teams which are younger and faster. Ward is nothing but a 4th line player at this time.
I don't post much, but I think this is the biggest issue to address going forward. At the end of the season, all teams stacked the box against the Sharks, blocked everything in sight, and counter-attacked them. Our top-6 cannot get back and 3 on 2s became 4 on 2s. Then, our D played tentative otherwise they'd deal with odd man rushes all day. Burns is ineffective when he has to concentrate on actual defense.
I am still immensely happy with what this team has accomplished the last decade. Unfortunately we were consistently beaten by teams, who, in my opinion, embarrassed themselves to get where they are. The stacked Chicago team (tanked), a loaded Vancouver team (prime Sedins), a Kings team fresh off a rebuild (Doughty), the Penguins (how did they earn Crosby and Malkin again?), and now an Oilers team with a legacy of suckage gifted a superstar. The Sharks chose to stay competitive, the purpose of the sport, and were not rewarded for it. Such is life.
I'm ready for a re-build and maybe we can turn the tables.
I don't post much, but I think this is the biggest issue to address going forward. At the end of the season, all teams stacked the box against the Sharks, blocked everything in sight, and counter-attacked them. Our top-6 cannot get back and 3 on 2s became 4 on 2s. Then, our D played tentative otherwise they'd deal with odd man rushes all day. Burns is ineffective when he has to concentrate on actual defense.
I am still immensely happy with what this team has accomplished the last decade. Unfortunately we were consistently beaten by teams, who, in my opinion, embarrassed themselves to get where they are. The stacked Chicago team (tanked), a loaded Vancouver team (prime Sedins), a Kings team fresh off a rebuild (Doughty), the Penguins (how did they earn Crosby and Malkin again?), and now an Oilers team with a legacy of suckage gifted a superstar. The Sharks chose to stay competitive, the purpose of the sport, and were not rewarded for it. Such is life.
I'm ready for a re-build and maybe we can turn the tables.
TrappedInFullerton
Murray SMASH
- Apr 19, 2006
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Pens got Crosby and Malkin because of the the cancelled 04-05 season. They drafted Malkin the year before with the 2nd overall pick, then the season was cancelled. The draft did a lottery using the previous years' standings, so the Pens had a great lottery chance and they ended up with the first overall. Was complete ********.
Sharks, despite having low odds in that draft, ended up 8th overall. They picked Setoguchi over Kopitar sadly. They got Vlasic that year though...
Still, from 03 to 05, the Pens drafted 1st, 2nd, 1st.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Sadly, I agree.
I always blamed Jumbo for entering the zone and slowing down the play. But hell, he has to because Pavs needs to catch up. I am seriously not sure what we can do about Pavs though. I respect the hell out of him as a player and he is our C but he is a liability when playing other teams top line who have a lot of young speedy forwards. Sure he has a lot of market value but I just do not see DW trading him. Not unless we go full-rebuild which I just do not see us doing.
rangerssharks414
Registered User
I'm for firing the assistants, but not DeBoer. Sure, his lineup decisions were mind boggling at times, but special teams did the Sharks in. That's on the assistants.
Alwalys
Phu m.
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then the first round actually happened and we can see that edmonton would have been a fairly easy beat if the team was healthy, playing like they were actually playing in the first round.
Arkansas Shark
Fire DW
If firing Spott means PDB leaves with him so be it. A PP that bad with the resources this team has is absolutely abhorrent and inexcusable. At this point I'm convinced the guy could screw up a free lunch.
KarlssonsGroin
pray
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Yea we were above 0.500 during the season when we had Haley on the 4th line
He sits Haley in the pressbox for 6 games, and boom, out of the playoffs
Alwalys
Phu m.
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Put him on the 3rd line and put Hertl back to 1st line. Pavs is the third line center we always should have had. Put Melker and someone else fast to help him out.
Just for clarification's sake, the 2005 draft wasn't entirely based on the previous year's standings. Everyone had a shot at the top pick but only a few had multiple balls.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Alwalys
Phu m.
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If hertl is the other guy I won't be. Maaaaaybe meier if he works out.
But this rotating door of melker level players, that doesn't work.
CrypTic
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- Oct 2, 2013
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This is part of why I want PDB gone. I don't blame him for the first round exit. The team was very injured. I do blame him for wasting a large part of the season and not doing things like breaking up the Joes. He didn't even do that when Hertl was out and he had the perfect excuse. It's not his fault that many of the players regressed but he didn't try to adjust for it either, which a good coach would do. And he didn't capitalize on Burns. When teams figured him out and adjusted to our very predictable play, he didn't seem to even try to adjust. That is one of a coach's main jobs.
He also failed to fix the PP. Sure, that's primarily on Spott and he should go too but part of PDB's job is to make sure that his assistants are doing theirs well. He failed. This is also partly on DW bc part of his job is to make sure the coaches (both PDB and the assistants) are doing their jobs competently.
Jargon
Registered User
I genuinely like DeBoer and would love to give him another chance.
The fact is, our team is older and looked totally out of gas near the end of the year. Add some sophmore slumps, some young inexperienced players and insane injuries and I'm not really sure what he could've done. Yes, some lineup decisions were questionable but for the most part, I liked this team and on paper, thought they could beat the very best. I honestly still think that -- if our top guys (sans Marleau) didn't seem so damn tired.
I'd love to keep Marleau and Joe for next year at a cheaper salary. I think we need someone on the second D pairing that can score. A Shattenkirk (aiming high), something. Meaning either Braun or Dillon should be gone (thinking Braun).
As far as our forwards... man, I might be in the minority, but I LIKE our team. I'd like to see if Donskoi can snap back. I actually think Boedker was figuring it out (when on the right line) and the young guys were growing and getting better.
I think, at the end of the day, if we can get an upgrade on Ward, Martin and offensive D to play with Vlasic, we could have another run. The old guys can rest up this summer.
That said, I'm also concerned about Pavs. He seems slower and as opposed to his scoring with a wicked wrister, he has started relying heavily on the tip. I kinda wonder if all the front of the net stuff has banged him up badly... my hope is that he's a smart dude who is going to try his best to alleviate his issues over the summer...
Anyway, I think this was kind of a freak season where everything sorta went wrong. I'm fine moving past it and tweaking/upgrading where we can. But then, I'm hopelessly optimistic and dammit I want Joe and Marleau to get a cup here...
The fact is, our team is older and looked totally out of gas near the end of the year. Add some sophmore slumps, some young inexperienced players and insane injuries and I'm not really sure what he could've done. Yes, some lineup decisions were questionable but for the most part, I liked this team and on paper, thought they could beat the very best. I honestly still think that -- if our top guys (sans Marleau) didn't seem so damn tired.
I'd love to keep Marleau and Joe for next year at a cheaper salary. I think we need someone on the second D pairing that can score. A Shattenkirk (aiming high), something. Meaning either Braun or Dillon should be gone (thinking Braun).
As far as our forwards... man, I might be in the minority, but I LIKE our team. I'd like to see if Donskoi can snap back. I actually think Boedker was figuring it out (when on the right line) and the young guys were growing and getting better.
I think, at the end of the day, if we can get an upgrade on Ward, Martin and offensive D to play with Vlasic, we could have another run. The old guys can rest up this summer.
That said, I'm also concerned about Pavs. He seems slower and as opposed to his scoring with a wicked wrister, he has started relying heavily on the tip. I kinda wonder if all the front of the net stuff has banged him up badly... my hope is that he's a smart dude who is going to try his best to alleviate his issues over the summer...
Anyway, I think this was kind of a freak season where everything sorta went wrong. I'm fine moving past it and tweaking/upgrading where we can. But then, I'm hopelessly optimistic and dammit I want Joe and Marleau to get a cup here...
tiburon12
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- Jul 18, 2009
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Yes, but in the Playoffs his decisions were pretty solid. The only call i didnt like was not dressing Meier in game 6. BUT, Donskoi was the far safer choice.
Fistfullofbeer
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hohosaregood
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Quid Pro Clowe
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Sideshow Raheem
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If Burns hadn't completely stranded him on the blueline and skated literally to the crease waiting for a pass despite us only being down 1 goal 1 minute into the 2nd, that wouldn't have been a clean breakaway.
hohosaregood
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In the back of my head, I keep thinking that Tierney just made a terrible pass. I don't really want to recheck the video though.
For me, there are two areas that need to be addressed in the offseason for this team to remain a contender next season.
First - Improve the top line
I see Thornton coming back but he is no longer capable of carrying the first line. I disagree about splitting the Joes up (unless it is via trade) but I think they need to transition towards being the 3rd line. For this to happen the Sharks will need to pursue a high-end forward.
I am in favour of adding a top end forward to "partner" with Couture and elevate that line close to being a true #1. This is going to require a big name player like Oshie, Radulov or Arvidsson. Couture needs to have a legitimate threat on his line that has the ability to finish and create opportunities himself.
Going this route still, allows Hertl to continue to develop as a centre as a 2a/b with Thornton.
Second - Help Out Vlasic
I love Braun but he has regressed and so has Vlasic. They are still a top notch shutdown line but unless your top line is going to consistently win the possession battle you aren't going to win only playing shut down. Vlasic's pairing needs to help shift the possession battle in the Sharks favour.
I think what Vlasic needs is to be paired with a fast skater, someone who is able to win the foot races. It would also help if they had more offensive upside but in the end what that pairing needs to do is get out of the D zone faster. This pushes Braun down to the third pairing, where he will be fine with either Dillon or Schlemko.
I think this is going to be a relatively easy hole to fill. The Golden Knights are going to have their pick of a lot of solid D and Wilson should be able to line up some sort of pick and trade with them for a speedy right shot defenceman. The GKs are going to need more help in the forward department and that is one thing the Sharks have a surplus off.
First - Improve the top line
I see Thornton coming back but he is no longer capable of carrying the first line. I disagree about splitting the Joes up (unless it is via trade) but I think they need to transition towards being the 3rd line. For this to happen the Sharks will need to pursue a high-end forward.
I am in favour of adding a top end forward to "partner" with Couture and elevate that line close to being a true #1. This is going to require a big name player like Oshie, Radulov or Arvidsson. Couture needs to have a legitimate threat on his line that has the ability to finish and create opportunities himself.
Going this route still, allows Hertl to continue to develop as a centre as a 2a/b with Thornton.
Second - Help Out Vlasic
I love Braun but he has regressed and so has Vlasic. They are still a top notch shutdown line but unless your top line is going to consistently win the possession battle you aren't going to win only playing shut down. Vlasic's pairing needs to help shift the possession battle in the Sharks favour.
I think what Vlasic needs is to be paired with a fast skater, someone who is able to win the foot races. It would also help if they had more offensive upside but in the end what that pairing needs to do is get out of the D zone faster. This pushes Braun down to the third pairing, where he will be fine with either Dillon or Schlemko.
I think this is going to be a relatively easy hole to fill. The Golden Knights are going to have their pick of a lot of solid D and Wilson should be able to line up some sort of pick and trade with them for a speedy right shot defenceman. The GKs are going to need more help in the forward department and that is one thing the Sharks have a surplus off.
CrypTic
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I think that was one reason DW got Boedker last summer. It's been clear for years that Thornton needs to transition to the 2nd then the 3rd line (assuming they decide to do it more gradually). Last season, he was too good to start doing that. This season, I'm not sure they had the pieces. And PDB is stubborn and I'm not sure he wanted to **** off Thornton and Pavs. Probably didn't, which is going to be a problem going forward if Thornton and Pavs are to be moved down the line up.
So, two problems IMO: 1. Reluctance to move Thornton and Pavs. (Which, to keep with the thread topic, is an argument for firing PDB.) 2. Who do they get as a top winger? Boedker didn't work and Meier didn't pan out as quickly as they'd hoped. Labanc exceeded expectations but neither Meier nor Labanc are capable of carrying a line (and probably never will be).
I'd like to see Vlasic paired with a fast skater. Joakim Ryan seems like a good skater. Maybe they could try him with Vlasic even though he's a left handed shot. Or try Heed or get someone from outside the org over the summer. This is one reason I wish they would have had Ryan play with the Sharks and Heed play more often this past season: it would be easier to know whether we have the players within the org or we need to look outside.
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hohosaregood
Banned
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Looking at the WOWYs, Vlasic does really well with guys who are good PMDs, in limited minutes. So I think he could do well if he was paired up with any of Burns or Heed, assuming he re-signs, or Schlemko but it definitely changes the nature of our lineup. You probably couldn't play that pairing as the hard shutdown pairing minute
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