Finnish club to join KHL, future of ET

[Jussi]

So it looks like support or lack thereof regarding Jokerit joining KHL is not as one sided as for example Jussi tries to make it seem. Interesting.

Because there's so many Jokerit fans on this site...

 

[Jonimaus]

I have followed KHL´s expansion and euro league/IIHF+ET/ projects for years. Today I have an feeling that Swedes (federation+clubs) are against any european league, they have own SHL and does not want to change it. So, I give 0,001% that we will see euro league in near future, yes we can have ET or its upgrade. Maybe Finn/German others (not Czechs) clubs would support idea of pan-euro league instead of domestic leagues, but dont have majority... plus, having euro league without Swedes? No reality, the same like having UEFA Champions League without clubs from England. I claim that euro league must be based on money, you have money, you can join. Nowadays only Russians have money in hockey. Why to create euro league without Russians? Thefore Kummola said about 8 KHL teams. btw, rest of Europe will have how many teams? 10-12? or you want to have 40 clubs in regular stage (not qualification)?? IMO new project (this ET/IIHF) can not have more than 20-24 clubs in regular stage. We should create strong "Champions League", not weak one. We can not copy football/basketball model (number of clubs) because hockey is unbalanced in Europe (not counting KHL) - strong SHL, SM, NLA + 2nd stage DEL, CZ + rest. You can not have in CL 8 clubs from SHL and 4 from SM or 1 from Slovakia (btw KHL team), because of money.

CL as maximum

KHL - 8 teams (4 RUS, 4 non-RUS)
SHL, SM, NLA - 4 teams
DEL, CZ - 3 teams
rest - 1 or 2 teams in Q

Not sure how the SHL clubs feel, if there's a lot of money to be had in CL they'd be interested. But as usual the swedish fans will not care at all.

 

[Jussi]

In Jatkoaika (the biggest Finnish hockey messageboard) the initial reaction was mostly negative, but more and more fans have written that after some time to think they have changed their minds and are even looking forward watching Jokerit play in the KHL.

There are also some fans of other teams who say that they plan to watch a few Jokerit games in the KHL.

http://keskustelu.jatkoaika.com/showthread.php?p=4831696#post4831696

The poll is rather fresh but as of this writing:

Are you interested in KHL Jokerit:

Yes (I'm a Jokerit fan): 18
Yes (not a Jokerit fan): 34
No(I'm a Jokerit fan): 5
No: (i'm a Jokerit fan): 57.

On the site's Facebook page there were a lot more votes and Jokerit fans were more interested in SM-Liiga (206) over KHL (128).

 

[Jussi]

Not sure how the SHL clubs feel, if there's a lot of money to be had in CL they'd be interested. But as usual the swedish fans will not care at all.

Kummola said 8 teams overall, with 4 teams from KHL. I'd assume the teams would be split evenly among the top hockey countries.

 

[QnebO]

I think those jatkoaika posters are harder SM-Liiga fans than regullar people. I, for one, don't really care that much about SM-Liiga. I follow it and stuff, but you know. Its all NHL, FEL just doesn't get me that intrested. But ofcourse I watch SM-Liiga games like once a week at least. But NHL is just much more intresting.

That should be asked outside jatkoaika. But looks like that even SM-Liiga Fans do not completely crush the idea. I never would've considered myself as Jokerit fan earlier, now I feel much more intrest towards them and sure, I will buy tickets and watch games at the start and if its good, who knows if it makes me KHL fan, only the game quality and time will tell.

 

[Jussi]

I think those jatkoaika posters are harder SM-Liiga fans than regullar people. I, for one, don't really care that much about SM-Liiga. I follow it and stuff, but you know. Its all NHL, FEL just doesn't get me that intrested. But ofcourse I watch SM-Liiga games like once a week at least. But NHL is just much more intresting.

That should be asked outside jatkoaika. But looks like that even SM-Liiga Fans do not completely crush the idea. I never would've considered myself as Jokerit fan earlier, now I feel much more intrest towards them and sure, I will buy tickets and watch games at the start and if its good, who knows if it makes me KHL fan, only the game quality and time will tell.

One has to take into account that Jokerit fans have been understandably upset with the action of the SM-Liiga leadership re: suspension from last season. Some fans who've followed KHL some what already have stated that if those fans think things will be better in KHL with that aspect, they will be in for a rude awakening.

 

[Finnpin]

One has to take into account that Jokerit fans have been understandably upset with the action of the SM-Liiga leadership re: suspension from last season. Some fans who've followed KHL some what already have stated that if those fans think things will be better in KHL with that aspect, they will be in for a rude awakening.

It's not just the suspensions stuff from last season...there is many things that suck in SM-liiga and that would be worthy of own thread. KHL is not going to be perfect and there will be WTF moments in that league for sure too.

Jussi, it's starting to get ridiculous how you are only posting negative stuff here about this Jokerit/KHL topic. I suppose your Jokerit fan love wasn't very strong? you seem to be loving SM-liiga more.

 

[Jussi]

It's not just the suspensions stuff from last season...there is many things that suck in SM-liiga and that would be worthy of own thread. KHL is not going to be perfect and there will be WTF moments in that league for sure too.

Jussi, it's starting to get ridiculous how you are only posting negative stuff here about this Jokerit/KHL topic. I suppose your Jokerit fan love wasn't very strong? you seem to be loving SM-liiga more.

Like I said, the club's going to change in a way that it won't be the one I've rooted for. I've had issues with the Virmanen years when the re hardly any real Jokerit players in the roster, just "mercenaries". The joy fans felt when the likes of Juha Lind, AJ-Niemi, Kari Lehtonen, Ossi Väänänen, Teemu Pulkkinen or Teuvo Teräväinen broke into the lineup from A-juniors, some time even B-juniors, will never happen again.

 

[Finnpin]

I just realized who Roman Rotenberg reminds me of:

I'll refer to him as Kumar from now on.

Doesn't look similar at all even Alexei Eremenko Jr. would be better and even he doesn't get close.

 

[icing]

I would love some kind of Nordic league, where Elitserien and SM-Liiga would combine, maybe Sweden would have couple of more teams than Finland but not huge difference. Requirement for teams would be international airport and modern enough arena. Would love it with hybrid rinks with safety-glasses and totally or almost commercial free jerseys (one standard placed and sized commercial on back under the number maybe) and professional full time refs, and league managing it's own rules, not being under IIHF in any manner (im not sure if both leagues even are at this day, not totally at least). It would raise the level of the both leagues, getting more top organisations playing in the same league, and Finland - Sweden thing would relatively easily start to work I think.

Sweden would still have Allsvenskan and Finland would still have Mestis. Couple of teams from both top leagues would drop to them.

No problem with some team playing in the KHL too, thought. More top hockey is always better for me. Let's just take part of it and help developing it.. Top hockey on prime time.

To be honest. I believe this is the only way to go, unless both SEL and FEL want to lay down and die. Even though a team (or two) from Sweden joined the KHL, and one more from Finland, there would still be lots of teams left that has to do something.

And in Sweden the revenue has more or less reached it's roof and are actually moving backwards right now. There is not much more room to grow domestically.

 

[Dosing]

To be honest. I believe this is the only way to go, unless both SEL and FEL want to lay down and die. Even though a team (or two) from Sweden joined the KHL, and one more from Finland, there would still be lots of teams left that has to do something.

And in Sweden the revenue has more or less reached it's roof and are actually moving backwards right now. There is not much more room to grow domestically.

Would people care more about watching finnish teams then teams from any other country though?
Even playing the finnish national team has been watered down over the years. There is moving backwards and there is steady +-
High rollers lose 90% of the time. Smart rollers stay in the game. Not the time to throw your chips in.

 

[icing]

Would people care more about watching finnish teams then teams from any other country though?
Even playing the finnish national team has been watered down over the years. There is moving backwards and there is steady +-
High rollers lose 90% of the time. Smart rollers stay in the game. Not the time to throw your chips in.

Why not? Something new and fresh and people still keep the rivalries from the past. There must not be an equal amount of games between Swedish and Finish teams - More games withing divisions than cross divisions.

Competing for the Nordic throne within more or less the same league structure would be a very nice addition. And of course it would grow the rivialry between Finland and Sweden that has only existed on internatiol level.

Cutting away completely from the past is one thing, refreshing with new influences something else.

But unfortunately i also believe that the general swedish fan is to conservative and the league is scared to death about that. SHL needs to grow some balls and just go. This will not take anything away from the Swedish fans.

But is has do be done right! Just some "after season finale" between the Finish champions and the Swedish champions is not enough!
When done incorrect, then people will not care.

 

[Jussi]

Doesn't look similar at all even Alexei Eremenko Jr. would be better and even he doesn't get close.

It was more apparent in the videos, I couldn't find suitable pictures.

 

[Jussi]

Why not? Something new and fresh and people still keep the rivalries from the past. There must not be an equal amount of games between Swedish and Finish teams - More games withing divisions than cross divisions.

Competing for the Nordic throne within more or less the same league structure would be a very nice addition. And of course it would grow the rivialry between Finland and Sweden that has only existed on internatiol level.

Cutting away completely from the past is one thing, refreshing with new influences something else.

But unfortunately i also believe that the general swedish fan is to conservative and the league is scared to death about that. SHL needs to grow some balls and just go. This will not take anything away from the Swedish fans.

But is has do be done right! Just some "after season finale" between the Finish champions and the Swedish champions is not enough!
When done incorrect, then people will not care.

I think I posted several years ago the idea of a Nordic league with 10-12 teams from both countries, with national champions decided first, then the Nordic champion. Teams would face each other twice (home and away) during the regular season. Add in local rivalry games within countries to bump the season to ~60 games. I'd imagine there would be more interest among the big sponsors to promote themselves to the neighboring countries.

 

[QnebO]

But is has do be done right! Just some "after season finale" between the Finish champions and the Swedish champions is not enough!
When done incorrect, then people will not care.

This is true. Also it would be worth conversation, if both countries want to keep their hockey western, should the league be played in NHL rink, maybe with NHL rulebook. Both countries have lots of NHL fans, they would appreciate it and rest would realize how good it is later. Rules could force you at least to choose between 26-27,5m so teams would have some room making little tweak but lining out the 30m IIHF airports. In finnish league, I dislike the airport rinks, like the smaller ones better. It would make our young players adjust better for NHL and maybe being more north american style league, it would even raise their value in the draft a bit compared to players from other Euro leagues. It would make it really to be different and not just worse version of KHL. Something new and fresh and done with quality, close to us and in prime time: Nordic Hockey League

 

[vorky]

Can anybody translate to english? It seems SM-Liiga was not informed about Jokerit´s leaving. Btw, the same happened in Slovakia, nobody asked the rest clubs

http://www.sm-liiga.fi/arkisto/uutiset/sm-liigan-tiedote-5.7.2013.html

 

[Raymo]

Can anybody translate to english? It seems SM-Liiga was not informed about Jokerit´s leaving. Btw, the same happened in Slovakia, nobody asked the rest clubs

http://www.sm-liiga.fi/arkisto/uutiset/sm-liigan-tiedote-5.7.2013.html

Roughly:

SM-Liiga press release

All teams in the SM-Liiga (stock holders) besides Jokerit, have held a joint meeting regarding the media information, according to that Jokerit was moving to KHL in season 14-15.

Jokerit has been requested a detailed explanation about the backgrounds and the terms of the deal. According to current stock holder contract, moving to a competing league requires approval by the current league, which has not so far been asked.

The stock holders are also amazed by the Finnish Ice Hockey Federations(FIHF) actions. According to IIHF rules, joining a another countrys league requires the acceptance of both the national league and international ice hockey federation. According to information by the SM-Liiga, FIHF approved Jokerit joining the KHL without negotiating with the SM-Liiga, which has been a standard procedure in such matters.

SM-liiga has informed the IIHF about the subject, and will decide of it's own actions after receiving explanations from all those involved in the matter.

 

[vorky]

thx a lot

 

[Finnpin]

Just shows that SM-liiga teams are mad at Jokerit for bolting to KHL

Kummola said that SM-liiga is reading the rules wrong here and eveything was already agreed with the CEO of SM-liiga who gave green light to Jokerit as did Kummola.

 

[vorky]

It is understandable reaction of SM-Liiga clubs, slovak clubs had same reaction. On the other hand, IIHF supports KHL´s expansion as Fasel said. It seems there is a deal among KHL/IIHF.

Lets have a look at IIHF rules

Rule 501 of IIHF Statutes and Bylaws

A club that wishes to play in a cross-border league and/or league of a Member National Association that is not the Member National Association in the country where the club is located must (1) obtain the permission of the Member National Association where the club is located (this Member National Association shall consult the respective national league regarding such); and (2) obtain the permission of the Member National Association of the country where the club’s future league is located.

http://www.iihf.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/The_IIHF/2012-2014_IIHF_Statutes_and_Bylaws.pdf

So, Jokerit needs approval of federation, which shall consult it with SM-Liiga. Yes, SM-Liiga can say NO, but its statement is irrelevat. Approval is made by federation.

 

[Jussi]

SM-Liiga feel they were not consulted at all. If there is no solution to this, Jokerit can expect a real bumpy ride in their last SM-Liiga season.

Edit: according to Hannu Penttila, if SM-Liiga had been consulted, Jokerit would not have been given permission.

 

[vorky]

1) It is not duty of Jokerit to consult leaving SM-Liiga with league, but it is duty of Finnish federation.

2) Did Jokerit leave SM-Liiga/join KHL? Not. What should finnish federation consult with SM-Liiga?

3) Did Finnish federation sign legal document which allows Jokerit to join KHL? As I know, NOT. So?

Yes, it was announced that Jokerit is joing KHL next year, but it is only MEDIA statement. Or am I wrong?

Scenarios:

A) as Finnpin wrote, "Kummola said that SM-liiga is reading the rules wrong here and eveything was already agreed with the CEO of SM-liiga who gave green light to Jokerit as did Kummola." So, Kummola informed(consulted) the topic with CEO of SM-Liiga. Finnish federation does not need approval of SM-Liiga to give permision to Jokerit to join KHL!

B) Nothing is official yet. Federation will inform SM-Liiga: "Jokerit is leaving league and joining KHL". As mentioned earlier, Finnish federation does not need approval of SM-Liiga to give permision to Jokerit to join KHL!

Agreements among Finnish federations and SM-Liiga are irrelevant. Maybe there is a fine (I dont know) if any club leaves SM-Liiga to join other league. Ok, so Jokerit will pay it, but SM-Liiga can not forbid Jokerit to join KHL, only Federation can.

As I said earlier, there is a deal among KHL/IIHF, so I dont expect any problems. Jokerit will join KHL, like it or not. It is not coincidence that Timchenko (no.1 or no.2 person in KHL) is involved in the proces of Jokerit.

 

[PJM]

A) as Finnpin wrote, "Kummola said that SM-liiga is reading the rules wrong here and eveything was already agreed with the CEO of SM-liiga who gave green light to Jokerit as did Kummola." So, Kummola informed(consulted) the topic with CEO of SM-Liiga. Finnish federation does not need approval of SM-Liiga to give permision to Jokerit to join KHL!

The CEO of the league is a member of the board of the federation. To my understanding the board of the federation had a (tele)meeting on the issue, and thereby the CEO of the league was involved. Whether that is what IIHF means by consulting the league is not very clear. Anyway, Kummola, the vice president of the IIHF, said that the federation makes the decision and informs the league, so maybe this is the correct interpretation, although in that case the wording is a bit misleading in my opinion.

Agreements among Finnish federations and SM-Liiga are irrelevant. Maybe there is a fine (I dont know) if any club leaves SM-Liiga to join other league. Ok, so Jokerit will pay it, but SM-Liiga can not forbid Jokerit to join KHL, only Federation can.

As I said earlier, there is a deal among KHL/IIHF, so I dont expect any problems. Jokerit will join KHL, like it or not. It is not coincidence that Timchenko (no.1 or no.2 person in KHL) is involved in the proces of Jokerit.

SM-liiga is a corporation and the clubs are the shareholders that own it. There is a shareholders' agreement that each team has signed. It is not a public document, so we don't know the stipulations, but it would be strange if there was nothing on a club leaving the league. The federation is not a party of this agreement.

 

[vorky]

The CEO of the league is a member of the board of the federation. To my understanding the board of the federation had a (tele)meeting on the issue, and thereby the CEO of the league was involved. Whether that is what IIHF means by consulting the league is not very clear. Anyway, Kummola, the vice president of the IIHF, said that the federation makes the decision and informs the league, so maybe this is the correct interpretation, although in that case the wording is a bit misleading in my opinion.

Thx.

SM-liiga is a corporation and the clubs are the shareholders that own it. There is a shareholders' agreement that each team has signed. It is not a public document, so we don't know the stipulations, but it would be strange if there was nothing on a club leaving the league. The federation is not a party of this agreement.

I agree, As I said, this shareholders' agreement is not important, because only federation can/can not allow club to play league of other country.

 

[vorky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFHOFTFxQ7o

Did Harkimo say more in this interview than at press-conference held 28.July?

- Euro league did not work, so KHL is best place for Jokerit
- I needed bussiness partners in Hartwall Arena

Did he said more? Especially about reasons to give up idea of euro-league project.