GDT: Final exit interviews; Granato 11am/Adams 11:30am

Sabre Dance

Make Hockey Fun Again
Jul 27, 2006
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The problem with the ROR trade was the return. You can't change culture if your trades make the team significantly worse. It told the players in the locker room the front office didn't care about winning or it was too incompetent to build a winner. There's no reason Botterill couldn't have made a much better deal.
The return for O'Reilly was because of money. Not many teams were willing to pay the bonus. O'Reilly forced his way out of 2 organizations.

Also none of the Blues prospects fans wanted are anything special yet.
 

Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
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They did!

And they didn't replace them. And they gave the GM job to someone with zero experience because he was willing to ax people.

It's why the "we want buy in from our players" is such utter horse shit.

The infrastructure for our team isn't there. Our owner isn't bought in and wants to treat the team like his personal fantasy hockey team.

Same ownership group.
Experienced GM with 18 years of experience prior to taking his first GM job, and put together a roster which went to the AFC Championship game.

This board: I can’t believe he just took two defensive ends!

Inexperienced GM with NHL experience as a player, coach, and in management, navigating a mess which was largely inherited.

This board: I can’t believe he fired everyone, restarted the front office, and only wants players who want to be here.
 

Hasek

Registered User
Jan 2, 2013
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Can't blame Eichel for seeking ways to try to get back on the ice as soon as possible. To be an athlete at his level you need to be super competitive. When you hear about a 12 month recovery and think of the time you will lose while your peers are out there doing their thing, you immediately start looking for ways to improve this. On the other hand, his competitive nature is overwhelming his ability to accept the most reasonable approach.
 

BananaSquad

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Jun 13, 2013
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The return for O'Reilly was because of money. Not many teams were willing to pay the bonus. O'Reilly forced his way out of 2 organizations.

Also none of the Blues prospects fans wanted are anything special yet.
If Tage keeps actually improving and Ryan Johnson becomes a top 4 guy, it isn’t as bad as it could have been.
 

Doug Prishpreed

Registered User
May 1, 2013
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Thank you for perfectly summarizing exactly how I feel about all of this. I think Jack and Sam will both be here next year, the team will be remarkably better, and it’ll all be pretty much fine. I also think someone here is going to resurrect the dog in the flaming pit of hell saying it’s fine picture, and that’s fine too.

Sam stopped following Sabres and social media and took the Sabres logo off everything. He’s not playing for Buffalo again.
 
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Doug Prishpreed

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May 1, 2013
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If Tage keeps actually improving and Ryan Johnson becomes a top 4 guy, it isn’t as bad as it could have been.

Tage sucks and every team has 3 Ryan Johnson’s. It’s much worse than almost any scenario anyone could’ve imagined if those are two guys we are relying on. Tage should be expansion fodder...at this point I’m not even sure Seattle would want him for free.
 
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TehDoak

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I just don’t know how anyone listening to Adams doesn’t immediately think of McDermott and Beane coming to Buffalo.

Sammy Watkins- top-5 pick, traded assets to get him. Super talented player. If he had someone to get him the ball, he’d be a top-5 receiver in the game!

Marcell Dareus- Wow! 10 sacks as a DT. Signed a $20m/yr extension. Top-3 draft pick!

These guys were seen as our franchise players. Great young pieces to build around. Especially after all the losing how could we move on from such successful young players and rebuild again?!?!?

But by the end of the 1st year they were both gone and we’d made the playoffs.
It was then I realized that I hadn’t had much belief in “chemistry” “character” and “morale” in sports. I always thought you Just get talented players and let them play... but then again, as a Buffalo fan, I wasn’t really used to watching long term success in the teams I root for. These things do matter. And they’re what set teams apart from one another. Relationships matter. Character and work ethic matter. How you carry yourself as an adult on a day to day basis with everyone you interact with, matters.

If Eichel, Reinhart and Ristolainen want to be here? Great! Come in, put in work, set an example and be leaders for Cozens, Mittelstadt, Asplund, Thompson, Ruotsalainen, Olofsson, Dahlin, Jokhiharju, Borgen, Samuelsson, guys who may actually be the depth this roster has needed for success.

If you don’t want to be here? Fine. See ya. You’re supposed to be the “core” and are such talented players that under your play, and your leadership, you’ve led this team to finish last place how many times in the past 6yrs?

I get that they haven’t always had the most talented players around them and that hockey is a team sport... but that’s exactly my point. It’s more than just these guys. They don’t want to be here. Cool. Especially as an owner, paying these guys???? I can finish in last place a whole lot cheaper than what I pay Eichel, Reinhart and Ristolainen.


Same ownership group.
Experienced GM with 18 years of experience prior to taking his first GM job, and put together a roster which went to the AFC Championship game.

This board: I can’t believe he just took two defensive ends!

Inexperienced GM with NHL experience as a player, coach, and in management, navigating a mess which was largely inherited.

This board: I can’t believe he fired everyone, restarted the front office, and only wants players who want to be here.

Sigh.

You do see the difference between drafting 21 and 22 year olds and 18 year olds right?

You do realize Bills are profitable every year and the Sabres bleed money right?

There is a vast ocean of difference between the front office of the Bills and Sabres.

The Bills brought someone in with a wealth of experience, gave him the budget to build out his office, surrounded a first time coach with experienced coordinators and they all got on the same page re: culture, etc. And the coach was a huge part of that. And that coach worked his way up from the NFL as an assistant scout to defensive coordinator, succeeding at every level over 20 years. And they had a concrete plan and process to get the Bills to respecability. Sure, they got lucky in year 1 with some breaks, but they stuck to the process and built through the draft and found the right people.

That is NOT what they have done with the Sabres. They had a coach with limited NHL experience who was out of hockey entirely for 5+ years. They had a bad GM who they should of fired last year, and didn't. They only fired him when he wouldn't fire his entire staff to save the Pegula's money, because as I said before, the Sabres bleed money and with no fans under covid, they lost even more. They then hired someone whose only qualification for being a NHL GM is his unquestionable loyalty to the Pegula's.

And no, being a NHL player and 1 year of as assistant coach doesn't qualify you to run a NHL franchise. It's equivalent of asking an electrician to run your power grid instead of an electrical engineer. Sure there's some of the same terms and some cross over in skills, but a wealth of training and experience an Engineer gets that an electrician does not. And they gave him virtually no staff until after the NHL trade deadline. He has a fraction of the scouts and staff that every other NHL GM has.

And this is how we effect culture change on the Sabres? With an unqualified, understaffed, first time GM who has already shown he can't roster build worth a damn (see: this last off season)

And here is the thing. I actually don't mind the team trading Eichel or Reinhart. I certainly don't mind them trading Risto. It hasn't worked.

What I do mind is them doing under the guise that they are some toxic players who "don't want to be here". What they don't want to do is continue to lose. Both Eichel and Reinhart know exactly where the franchise is. Just like RoR didn't want to keep losing.

You have to trade Eichel and Reinhart because they don't want to continue to lose and the only way forward is a rebuild? f***ing own that shit. Don't blame them because 'they don't want to be here'. Don't try to trot out some culture first mantra when the owner is spending pennies on the dollar on the team infrastructure. Show me they are bringing in experienced people to build out the front office, show me that there is some concept of a long term plan. You want connection to the fans? Show you have some base level of competence of people in charge, not the guy who was willing to ax people and suck up to the owner. Let them make the tough decisions with eyes towards long term goals.

You want what the Bills have? Hire experienced people and let them build it. Don't make a dollar store knockoff version of it with a fraud loyalist in the GM spot and expect people to say "Oh it's. just like what the Bills did". Because its not even close.
 
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brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
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The best thing I can say about this thread is that opinions are free. And everyone here has one.

And I can prognosticate like all the other junior Nostradamus's who have posted here but I would just be another dick pissing in the wind. LOL.

I will say that there's an awful lot of rather obvious game playing going on here between Adams (and likely the Pegula's), Granato, Eichel and Reinhart. (Risto doesn't count.....). But I have zero confidence that the return received if the latter 2 are traded will ever even match the excellence released.
The greatest thing about the internet (and social media) is it gives everyone a voice. The worst thing about the internet and social media is it gives EVERYONE a voice.

Sam stopped following Sabres and social media and took the Sabres logo off everything. He’s not playing for Buffalo again.
I checked my copy. It's Step 1 in the "Negotiation Handbook for high-talent RFA's with Arbitration Rights".
 

explore

I was wrong about Don Granato and TNT
Jun 28, 2011
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This reminds me of the Botterill era, with lots of "Culture Change" talk.
They then traded ROR, because he wasn't part of it and wanted out.

lol @ some of you guys

You really think ROR was part of the problem? This opinion baffles me after him leading ST Louis to a Stanley cup the very next season. ROR was a problem because they didn't want him speaking out about the real problem. The shitty culture. Losing was acceptable to this team and unacceptable to him. If that led to ROR not wanting to be here, I can't really blame him. The losing mentality of this organization is a cancer. Get every single player who thinks losing is even remotely close to acceptable out of the organization. Including ROR with Kane, Bogosian, in the same sentence(not you) is an embarrassingly convenient for a shitty narrative. Botterill's culture change was bullshit. ROR wasn't part of the real problem. Only time will tell if it's going to be different this time around.

I took his statement as him saying what's going on today is the same line of thinking that led to the moronic ROR trade, but it was ambiguous enough that he could've said the opposite
 

Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
17,744
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Cair Paravel
Sigh.

You do see the difference between drafting 21 and 22 year olds and 18 year olds right?

You do realize Bills are profitable every year and the Sabres bleed money right?

There is a vast ocean of difference between the front office of the Bills and Sabres.

The Bills brought someone in with a wealth of experience, gave him the budget to build out his office, surrounded a first time coach with experienced coordinators and they all got on the same page re: culture, etc. And the coach was a huge part of that. And that coach worked his way up from the NFL as an assistant scout to defensive coordinator, succeeding at every level over 20 years. And they had a concrete plan and process to get the Bills to respecability. Sure, they got lucky in year 1 with some breaks, but they stuck to the process and built through the draft and found the right people.

That is NOT what they have done with the Sabres. They had a coach with limited NHL experience who was out of hockey entirely for 5+ years. They had a bad GM who they should of fired last year, and didn't. They only fired him when he wouldn't fire his entire staff to save the Pegula's money, because as I said before, the Sabres bleed money and with no fans under covid, they lost even more. They then hired someone whose only qualification for being a NHL GM is his unquestionable loyalty to the Pegula's.

And no, being a NHL player and 1 year of as assistant coach doesn't qualify you to run a NHL franchise. It's equivalent of asking an electrician to run your power grid instead of an electrical engineer. Sure there's some of the same terms and some cross over in skills, but a wealth of training and experience an Engineer gets that an electrician does not. And they gave him virtually no staff until after the NHL trade deadline. He has a fraction of the scouts and staff that every other NHL GM has.

And this is how we effect culture change on the Sabres? With an unqualified, understaffed, first time GM who has already shown he can't roster build worth a damn (see: this last off season)

And here is the thing. I actually don't mind the team trading Eichel or Reinhart. I certainly don't mind them trading Risto. It hasn't worked.

What I do mind is them doing under the guise that they are some toxic players who "don't want to be here". What they don't want to do is continue to lose. Both Eichel and Reinhart know exactly where the franchise is. Just like RoR didn't want to keep losing.

You have to trade Eichel and Reinhart because they don't want to continue to lose and the only way forward is a rebuild? f***ing own that shit. Don't blame them because 'they don't want to be here'. Don't try to trot out some culture first mantra when the owner is spending pennies on the dollar on the team infrastructure. Show me they are bringing in experienced people to build out the front office, show me that there is some concept of a long term plan. You want connection to the fans? Show you have some base level of competence of people in charge, not the guy who was willing to ax people and suck up to the owner. Let them make the tough decisions with eyes towards long term goals.

You want what the Bills have? Hire experienced people and let them build it. Don't make a dollar store knockoff version of it with a fraud loyalist in the GM spot and expect people to say "Oh it's. just like what the Bills did". Because its not even close.

Did the Sabres take a seasoned manager (Botterill) and give him a huge budget, then hire a first time coach (Housley) with experienced assistants?

They picked the same type of people with as the Bills, and struck out.

Now their going with the culture angle, picking a person with a lesser track record of performance (Adams) but that they trust. If you don't see the value in that, then I don't know what to say.

Adams hired Karmanos, who's got decades of experience, to round out his lack of experience. He's hiring people to fill out the organization. He's about the pick a head coach.

Your posts tell me that you're interested in competence and performance and experience. I'm way more interested in trust, culture, and team. That's what made the Bills, and most highly successful organizations, where the employees work for the organization and each other.
 

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,696
7,927
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<snip>
Your posts tell me that you're interested in [A: competence and performance and experience.] I'm way more interested in [B: trust, culture, and team]. That's what made the Bills, and most highly successful organizations, where the employees work for the organization and each other.
We seek the union of these two sets, the overlap between the Venn diagrams. B without A is a bunch of happy failures. A without B are for-hire mercenaries who work for themselves.

edit: It's often harder to motivate category A's outside of B than it is to take motivated category B's and grow them into the union of A and B.
 

Sabre Dance

Make Hockey Fun Again
Jul 27, 2006
12,456
2,243
Can't blame Eichel for seeking ways to try to get back on the ice as soon as possible. To be an athlete at his level you need to be super competitive. When you hear about a 12 month recovery and think of the time you will lose while your peers are out there doing their thing, you immediately start looking for ways to improve this. On the other hand, his competitive nature is overwhelming his ability to accept the most reasonable approach.
It's stupid IMO. An experimental surgery on the spine? That seems like a last measure. I don't understand why a 24 year old would risk that, and why his advisors would allow it.
 
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TehDoak

Chili that wants to be here
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Did the Sabres take a seasoned manager (Botterill) and give him a huge budget, then hire a first time coach (Housley) with experienced assistants?

They picked the same type of people with as the Bills, and struck out.

Now their going with the culture angle, picking a person with a lesser track record of performance (Adams) but that they trust. If you don't see the value in that, then I don't know what to say.

Adams hired Karmanos, who's got decades of experience, to round out his lack of experience. He's hiring people to fill out the organization. He's about the pick a head coach.

Your posts tell me that you're interested in competence and performance and experience. I'm way more interested in trust, culture, and team. That's what made the Bills, and most highly successful organizations, where the employees work for the organization and each other.

So let's agree that GMJB had the right resume and still failed.

So the response to that is get someone who has ZERO experience?

Do you realize how insane that is? Show me where that has worked for any sports team. The underlying issue is that the Pegula's are heavily involved in day to day operations and are bad at running a hockey team. Period.

The way out is to get a Beane like person for the Sabres and GIVE THEM FULL AUTONOMY TO RUN THE TEAM like Beane and McDermott have. Regier, Murray, Botts, and now Adams don't have full authority to run the team or build their front office. It's running a team by committee and its be a huge disaster since they took over. From Leino to O'Reilly to Skinner and now Eichel, it's a huge tire fire of failure and the common thread is the Pegula's.

Do they need to sell the team? No. Do they need to get out of day to day operations and get qualified people to run the team? Absolutely. Adams is not that.
 

SackTastic

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
7,829
1,915
He still follows the Sabres on Instagram. Idk where that started.

He might be gone, but the social media thing doesn't seem correct

Yeah, that comment was shit. Sam hasn't used Twitter since 2015, and his semi-active Instagram account still has his profile pic of him in a Sabres jersey, as well as still following the Sabres.

Maybe the commenter was talking about a secret OnlyFans account.
 

Fezzy126

Rebuilding...
May 10, 2017
8,747
11,535
No, he's not implying Eichel is lying. They just disagree on what Jack should do.

Eichel is saying, "It's my body, I'm going to do what I want and get a surgery (which has never been done on any NHL player)"

Adams is saying, "Listen to the our medical professionals and the medical professionals who you received a second opinion from. They are unanimously telling you to take a conservative approach and rehab for three months."

While I think the semi-conflicting messages from both sides has been sorted out by Vogl, something about all of this has not sat well with me.

The timeline from Adams seems to be way off. Yesterday he mentioned that their doctors and the doctors from Jack's 2nd opinion both agreed that rest and rehab would be the best solution. Jack got his 2nd opinion in the beginning of March, so if they agreed that this would be a 12-week period that would put him out until June. Why did Adams and the Sabres continually say that Jack that they were hoping he'd be back this season?



 

Fezzy126

Rebuilding...
May 10, 2017
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Side note: I really wanted someone to ask about performance bonuses and if the team would have an overage on next year's cap.
 

SackTastic

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
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My doctor put me on some medication after some post-COVID stuff that I had to say on for 3 months. She said there was a chance I wouldn't have to stay on them the entire time, but ultimately 3 months was the next checkpoint where we would make decisions about what to do next.

That's kinda how this stuff works.
 

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