Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
I don’t see him being a permanent top line centre. Having a career year. Don’t think it’s sustainable.
Speculation: Fantasy GM and Rumor Roundup Thread | "Trader Jim" gearing up for TDL
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
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Colorado could a decent destination for Miller & should put them over the top of any club in their division.
Barron, Newhook, '23 1st + expiring cap dump for JTM 50% retained & Halak
Barron, Newhook, '23 1st + expiring cap dump for JTM 50% retained & Halak
Calgary doesn't have any tradeable assets as interesting as Newhook/Byram/Rossi/Boldy/Kakko/Schneider but I'd be happy with Matthew Coronato and Jeremie Poirier in the system. Add some picks too.
If the Canucks didn't want the Flames to be good we shouldn't have let them have Tanev + Markstrom lol. Extract the highest possible return via trade instead of galaxy braining about competition with other teams.
If the Canucks didn't want the Flames to be good we shouldn't have let them have Tanev + Markstrom lol. Extract the highest possible return via trade instead of galaxy braining about competition with other teams.
Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
Helps playing with Kaprizov who has been the most dominant ES scorer in the NHL this season.
Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
Think we need to temper our expectations on trade return for miller…. Can’t imagine we will be getting any a+ prospects (like Rossi, boldy, newhook, kakko, Laf). Likely it’s the tier just below + picks.
We absolutely should be, especially if we retain.
There are already rumours of like 5 teams in on Miller.
Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
That's barely more than the return for Toffoli (as a pure rental) or Blake Coleman or Jason Zucker. For an 80-point #1C on a bargain contract, for multiple seasons.
If Rutherford/new GM can't leverage a significant centerpiece asset from this trade I will be very disappointed.
This Miller trade will be a HUGE test for our new pro scouting department. Not gonna pretend I know their direction but seems to me the primary target should be a young elite potential RD before anything else
Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
Zucker got a 1st (lambos), galchenyuk and Addison
Coleman got 1st & Nolan Foote
miller should bare minimum get 1st + good prospect + another high pick (1st or 2nd)/ prospect. Which would be more than both of those offers.
I just don’t think that prospect will be the grade a+ ones that have already broken into the nhl. But hey you never know.
I keep hoping a team in the West will trade something stupid for Miller. The West is weak and getting a player of Miller's calibre for < 3 million for 2 years could be a huge difference maker.
It may be sacrilege to say but I think Bo holds some pretty considerable trade value as well and I wonder if JR has looked at trading him.
eg:
Bouchard + 1st + Turris + Koskinen + more cap dumps as required
for
Miller (50%) + Myers
It may be sacrilege to say but I think Bo holds some pretty considerable trade value as well and I wonder if JR has looked at trading him.
eg:
Bouchard + 1st + Turris + Koskinen + more cap dumps as required
for
Miller (50%) + Myers
Melvin
21/12/05
If all anyone wants to offer is the standard rental price then we have the luxury of hanging onto him and selling him next year at the standard rental price. To get him this year, team's are going to have to trade something that hurts.
CanuckleBerry
Benning Survivor
If top notch prospects are not on the table for the 2022 deadline, then you hang up the phone. Something underwhelming like a 1st+prospect will easily be on the table at the 2023 deadline for Miller. There is absolutely no reason to force a trade this season if the market doesn't line up with the value we need to make the trade worth it.
The Schneider + #1 sort of packages are what you'd expect to get for a player of Miller's calibre as a pure rental. The full extra season on a bargain contract is worth more than another late first or 2nd rounder.
Exactly.
You either hit a home run or you keep a very good player and trade him for the sort of 'good prospect plus late first' package a year from now.
We have all the leverage here on a player that teams are already lining up for. There should be a bidding war on this player.
Canucker
Go Hawks!
If Miller was a pure "rental" who was coming off the books at the end of the season, sure...expecting a team to give up a Rossi/Boldy/Newhook/Byrum type player is a tall ask, but having him locked up for 1 additional year, at a very friendly price (even more so if we did any retainage)...you are giving a contending team 2 solid kicks at the can at winning a cup with Miller...those are the types of deals you give up top notch prospects for.
In 2005 Dallas gave up an 18 year old Jarome Iginla for a 28 year old Joe Nieuwendyk...Dallas won a cup with Nieuwendyk winning the Conn Smythe, Iginla went on to have a fantastic career with Calgary...this is the type of trade where it probably steamed a bunch of Dallas fans giving up Iginla, but I'm sure they wouldn't give up their SC to take the trade back. This is the type of trade that will embitter fans of prized prospects but they'll long forget about them if they end up winning a cup with Miller's help.
In 2005 Dallas gave up an 18 year old Jarome Iginla for a 28 year old Joe Nieuwendyk...Dallas won a cup with Nieuwendyk winning the Conn Smythe, Iginla went on to have a fantastic career with Calgary...this is the type of trade where it probably steamed a bunch of Dallas fans giving up Iginla, but I'm sure they wouldn't give up their SC to take the trade back. This is the type of trade that will embitter fans of prized prospects but they'll long forget about them if they end up winning a cup with Miller's help.
Yup.
You want quality over quantity here. And need to be targeting a Newhook or a Boldy as the centerpiece of the deal.
This shouldn't be some sort of B prospect + a late 1st + a 2nd rounder sort of package. As was said above, we should be picking up a guy that hurts another team to move him.
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
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Cant agree more if you took even 3 random picks 2 1sts 20-30 roll dice for exact numbers and a late 2nd 50-60 and rolled a dice to do the same then overlayed those numbers over any 2 yr segments of draft picks and we pretty much 80% of the time end up with middling players or busts. May as well wait if that's the package
Rangers interest in JT Miller has been "next level" according to Seravalli on DailyFaceOff podcast today.
Yeah, we're not walking out of this situation without bluechip pieces.
Yeah, we're not walking out of this situation without bluechip pieces.
- Jan 23, 2010
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The "devil's advocate" for a quantity over quality deal would be just how awful our prospect pool is here and then we are looking ahead to a draft with no 2nd round pick.
It's really hard to find comparable deals to a JT Miller trade at the deadline because most are rentals. I think the template I would use if this kind of deal is preferred is actually the Duchene to Columbus deal, even though it was techincally a rental.
Jonathan Davidsson
Vitaly Abramov
2019 1st
2020 conditional 1st (if Duchene re-signs)
Abramov was considered a top prospect for Columbus at the time, albeit not a bluechip guy like some of the names we've talked about in this thread. Davidsson was one of their top ten prospects, but definitely a "B" prospect. The answer might already be built into the results here - the guys Ottawa received didn't really work out. But, process over results.
In this scenario Miller is already re-signed for a great price - albeit only one year - so we're going to check that "conditional" box to come up with the Miller deal in a "quantity over quality deal":
2022 1st
2023 1st
2nd or 3rd best prospect from a team
Top 10 best prospect from a team
I'm not really advocating this type of deal - but if they go in that direction, that's the framework they should be looking at.
It's really hard to find comparable deals to a JT Miller trade at the deadline because most are rentals. I think the template I would use if this kind of deal is preferred is actually the Duchene to Columbus deal, even though it was techincally a rental.
Jonathan Davidsson
Vitaly Abramov
2019 1st
2020 conditional 1st (if Duchene re-signs)
Abramov was considered a top prospect for Columbus at the time, albeit not a bluechip guy like some of the names we've talked about in this thread. Davidsson was one of their top ten prospects, but definitely a "B" prospect. The answer might already be built into the results here - the guys Ottawa received didn't really work out. But, process over results.
In this scenario Miller is already re-signed for a great price - albeit only one year - so we're going to check that "conditional" box to come up with the Miller deal in a "quantity over quality deal":
2022 1st
2023 1st
2nd or 3rd best prospect from a team
Top 10 best prospect from a team
I'm not really advocating this type of deal - but if they go in that direction, that's the framework they should be looking at.
To me we should be getting back 19-22 y/o NHL players (or very close to it) as the centerpiece, not a bunch of lottery tickets that might be something 5 years from now. This team isn't doing a full rebuild right now. We'll be keeping Hughes and Demko and be looking to turn it around in 1-2 years.
What you're suggesting is the definition of quantity over quality.
Good post. What a lot of fans of borderline contenders in the main forum/trade forum can't grasp is exactly what you said about Dallas. Sure Colorado might give up someone like Newhook, but they then have JT Miller, a legitimate first liner, for 2 playoff runs. It makes so much sense as a cup contender to take the plunge on moves like this. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to "prolong" your cup window by keeping prospects instead of taking a chance and going all in when something like a JT Miller is available.
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