F Dalibor Dvorsky - Sudbury Wolves, OHL (2023, 10th, STL)

[TK 421]

I agree with most of this and if it was Oskarshamn that ultimately had enough of Dvorksy then you're completely right. Otherwise I'd have liked to see Dvorksy stay around and trying to work his way back into the lineup. That kind of adversity is also an opportunity to grow, improve and learn. Dvorsky's game against the puck is in need of work and playing on a bad team in a bottom six role he'd have gotten a lot of opportunities to work on one of his weaknesses. So if Oskarshamn kicked him out then I agree that it was on the player's management. If not then I have to question the player himself. He knew that he shouldn't go back to juniors (that's also why pubicly said he's done with junior hockey) and still did it.

Like you I question whether OHL is the right call but I haven't heard any info about who was making that decision. I don't know if any attempt was made to locate an Allsvenskan team for him to play on but that would have definitely been my preference to OHL. He could have shown improvement that could easily have been measured against last year to see where he was at. If he struggled in Allsvenskan then sure a move to Sudbury and the OHL would have been appropriate.

At this point I'm just looking for silver linings and the best I can come up with is that he'll at least get to adjust to NA rink size and perhaps that will be a wakeup call to work on his skating. It's also a bit of a reset for him since he's been playing against pros since he was 15, that sudden lack of pro expectations could be a catalyst for growth. Could also be a continuation of bad habits too so who knows which way it goes.

 

[Le Golie]

Like you I question whether OHL is the right call but I haven't heard any info about who was making that decision. I don't know if any attempt was made to locate an Allsvenskan team for him to play on but that would have definitely been my preference to OHL. He could have shown improvement that could easily have been measured against last year to see where he was at. If he struggled in Allsvenskan then sure a move to Sudbury and the OHL would have been appropriate.

At this point I'm just looking for silver linings and the best I can come up with is that he'll at least get to adjust to NA rink size and perhaps that will be a wakeup call to work on his skating. It's also a bit of a reset for him since he's been playing against pros since he was 15, that sudden lack of pro expectations could be a catalyst for growth. Could also be a continuation of bad habits too so who knows which way it goes.

Brad Lambert had a similar path last year, going to the CHL after years of pro hockey (including 14 AHL games early in the season). Positive results for him, gaining some confidence and showing decisiveness again. He looks good back in the AHL this year with 6 points in 4 games - he only had 3 in 14 last season.

 

[Hinterland]

Brad Lambert had a similar path last year, going to the CHL after years of pro hockey (including 14 AHL games early in the season). Positive results for him, gaining some confidence and showing decisiveness again. He looks good back in the AHL this year with 6 points in 4 games - he only had 3 in 14 last season.

Yeah but again, every player and every situation is unique. Lambert is a speedster, Dvorsky's skating needs work. Also, Lambert isn't exactly known for his physique while Dvorsky's game is pretty depending on his frame. Hope I'm wrong but I'd have preferred if Dvorsky stayed true to his words and didn't go back to juniors. Allsvenskan would have been ideal.

 

[TK 421]

Another thing that just occurred to me is that the Blues hired Alex Steen to advise them on exactly such a situation and how quickly things moved to "..let's get him to Sudbury..". It didn't seem like much time from "he's scratched" to "Sudbury it is". Now I would love some illumination here as I'm not overly familiar with standard player movement in Europe and Sweden in particular but It didn't feel like enough time had passed for them to have asked Steen for advice on a solution and allowed him to explore possibilities before moving him to NA. Now that could just be my naivete of this situation(no move possible) or it could be that Steen's response was "get him in OHL now". IDK, but what I do know is Alex Steen is well respected in both NA and Sweden and I've got to think if some other team in either SHL or more likely Allsvenskan could have accommodated a move keeping him home in Sweden then he would have at least had time to explore it. This leads me to believe that either such a move wasn't possible or that Steen's recommendation was to contact Sudbury and get him in juniors. There is of course the 3rd possibility that the Blues pulled a knee jerk reaction, threw their weight around and said "Get him over here in NA and we'll make the best of it.".

So I suppose my question is was a move to Allsvenskan a possibility that the Blues could have explored?

 

[Blueston]

Another thing that just occurred to me is that the Blues hired Alex Steen to advise them on exactly such a situation and how quickly things moved to "..let's get him to Sudbury..". It didn't seem like much time from "he's scratched" to "Sudbury it is". Now I would love some illumination here as I'm not overly familiar with standard player movement in Europe and Sweden in particular but It didn't feel like enough time had passed for them to have asked Steen for advice on a solution and allowed him to explore possibilities before moving him to NA. Now that could just be my naivete of this situation(no move possible) or it could be that Steen's response was "get him in OHL now". IDK, but what I do know is Alex Steen is well respected in both NA and Sweden and I've got to think if some other team in either SHL or more likely Allsvenskan could have accommodated a move keeping him home in Sweden then he would have at least had time to explore it. This leads me to believe that either such a move wasn't possible or that Steen's recommendation was to contact Sudbury and get him in juniors. There is of course the 3rd possibility that the Blues pulled a knee jerk reaction, threw their weight around and said "Get him over here in NA and we'll make the best of it.".

So I suppose my question is was a move to Allsvenskan a possibility that the Blues could have explored?

there was article (think in PD but might have been Athletic) in which his agent said that while in hindsight he should have stayed with his Allsvenskan team, that agent and Blues felt that after bad SEL experience it was better to get Dvo over to OHL where he can regain confidence than go to another Swedish team and if he wasn't in right place and in right mental place he could struggle and basically make whole year a waste. so they felt was best of bad situation. and again, this was blues working in conjunction with Dvo's agent to find best option for him.

 

[TK 421]

there was article (think in PD but might have been Athletic) in which his agent said that while in hindsight he should have stayed with his Allsvenskan team, that agent and Blues felt that after bad SEL experience it was better to get Dvo over to OHL where he can regain confidence than go to another Swedish team and if he wasn't in right place and in right mental place he could struggle and basically make whole year a waste. so they felt was best of bad situation. and again, this was blues working in conjunction with Dvo's agent to find best option for him.

Thank you, that answers quite a few questions I had. What I get from that is that his rep screwed up which has been my gut feeling since the Oskarshamn signing days before the draft. I also thought it felt like Dvorsky himself wanted SHL based on multiple different interviews in which he sneered at the idea of playing junior hockey again. No mention of Allsvenskan there but it follows that the player himself may have pushed for SHL. So perhaps the rep felt that he could lose a client if his advice didn't match what the client wanted and said nothing when Dvorsky pushed for SHL and agent actually had suggested Allsvenskan. Hard to say right? They only tell us so much. I guess it really doesn't matter at this point anyway but I do agree with them that his season was just saved. He'll get a nice soft intro to NA hockey in terms of rink size and the stop/start nature of play here and now the Blues specialist staff can have way better access to him as he shreds the OHL. Big thing for him is concentrating on improving his skating so hopefully he can do that despite a busy schedule.

 

[Blueston]

Thank you, that answers quite a few questions I had. What I get from that is that his rep screwed up which has been my gut feeling since the Oskarshamn signing days before the draft. I also thought it felt like Dvorsky himself wanted SHL based on multiple different interviews in which he sneered at the idea of playing junior hockey again. No mention of Allsvenskan there but it follows that the player himself may have pushed for SHL. So perhaps the rep felt that he could lose a client if his advice didn't match what the client wanted and said nothing when Dvorsky pushed for SHL and agent actually had suggested Allsvenskan. Hard to say right? They only tell us so much. I guess it really doesn't matter at this point anyway but I do agree with them that his season was just saved. He'll get a nice soft intro to NA hockey in terms of rink size and the stop/start nature of play here and now the Blues specialist staff can have way better access to him as he shreds the OHL. Big thing for him is concentrating on improving his skating so hopefully he can do that despite a busy schedule.

yeah, this doesn't HAVE to have been for naught. can be a learning experience for dvo and make him even better than if he didn't have the adversity. or it could be missed opportunity. time will tell.

but i think you also point out that the initial SEL decision was likely at dvo's urging. but i kinda like that our 18 year old prospect had such confidence in his ability that he wanted to push himself to top euro league. it may have been a bit foolish, but i don't expect wisdom from him yet. that should come in time.

 

[TK 421]

yeah, this doesn't HAVE to have been for naught. can be a learning experience for dvo and make him even better than if he didn't have the adversity. or it could be missed opportunity. time will tell.

but i think you also point out that the initial SEL decision was likely at dvo's urging. but i kinda like that our 18 year old prospect had such confidence in his ability that he wanted to push himself to top euro league. it may have been a bit foolish, but i don't expect wisdom from yet. that should come in time.

Yeah I'm optimistic about this situation potentially being a catalyst for growth.

Confidence is good, however confidence and arrogance are next door neighbors and perhaps now is a good time for the Blues to help guide him so he doesn't hurt his own development with poor decisions. I noticed his 1st goal celebration with Sudbury teammates and he had a posture of humility as he waited for his new teammates to come congratulate him. He showed a more reserved nature due to slight discomfort at a new situation but he was smiling and relaxed. That's a great sign imo, I think maybe so much time amongst pros had him a bit tense and not wanting to make mistakes so this may be a relief for him for all we know.

 

[ItWasJustified]

It is.

Nope. The best AHL teams could compete with the best SHL teams. The other teams would be relegated.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I mean I get the point that he struggled in the SHL. Which is a worse league in the AHL. But if he goes to the OHL and has a great year. I don't even think twice about a rough 10 game stint in the SHL. If he doesn't have a great OHL year then we can discuss at that point.

It's probably the right move. But he wasn't great in Allsvenskan last year either so the sample size is pretty signficant of not doing great vs. men. As long as he works on his flaws in juniors (namely skating, compete, defense) rather than just putting up numbers it's going to be good for his development.

 

[Hinterland]

It's probably the right move. But he wasn't great in Allsvenskan last year either so the sample size is pretty signficant of not doing great vs. men. As long as he works on his flaws in juniors (namely skating, compete, defense) rather than just putting up numbers it's going to be good for his development.

That's gonna be a tough ask though. Firstly because it's against human nature to invest into change when things almost couldn't go better. Secondly it's also tough to adjust to a level you're not currently playing. It would have been easier to do it while actually playing vs men.

This would be much easier to do if he, like most prospects, had a junior game that, with a few tweaks, can translate well to pro hockey. The fact that this is obviously not the case for Dvorsky is a big warning sign for me. The fact that the player himself said he's done with junior hockey tells me he knows it as well. In my view, he should absolutely stop playing vs kids. I said it many times...hopefully I'm wrong but I don't like it one bit.

 

[TLEH]

Nope. The best AHL teams could compete with the best SHL teams. The other teams would be relegated.

I mean the SHL was better as early as like 2-3 years ago. League quality changes rapidly. You can even tell when you watch it. Not only that but analytics have been done on league strength as early as last month. AHL 2nd strongest league.

 

[ItWasJustified]

I mean the SHL was better as early as like 2-3 years ago. League quality changes rapidly. You can even tell when you watch it. Not only that but analytics have been done on league strength as early as last month. AHL 2nd strongest league.

Lol.

 

[TLEH]

Lol.

Scintillating. You really convinced me.

 

[Tube Skates]

Just had to check to see what thread I was on

 

[ItWasJustified]

Scintillating. You really convinced me.

View attachment 757678

Someone made a graph, with a spelling error no less, and you think I'm going to believe that? The fact that you said that the SHL was better 2-3 years ago, before Russia invaded Ukraine is just ridiculous.

 

[canuckslover10]

Scintillating. You really convinced me.

View attachment 757678

How is this calculated?

 

[theslatcher]

How is this calculated?

Introducing NHLz

A new way to measure changes in league quality over time

chacemccallum.substack.com

It's a model that will naturally overrate the AHL, and as with all models it has very heavy flaws.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

1 G + 1 A today, including this work of art:

 

[HaNotsri]

I mean the SHL was better as early as like 2-3 years ago. League quality changes rapidly. You can even tell when you watch it. Not only that but analytics have been done on league strength as early as last month. AHL 2nd strongest league.

Post-invasion of Ukraina the quality of SHL has improved a lot, it looks like a different league. It's been a defense first league for a while now but right now it's extreme and a lot of teams will have to fight for their survival. Oskarshamn might be relegated. You can't afford to develop talent in this environment. Players have to be SHL-ready or the future of the team is in jeopardy.
You see young stars bloom but they have all been ready from the get go this season.

I think SHL will be a bad league for player development unless we talk about players with a complete game or extreme talent.

AHL can offer close to the same quality of competition (with the best teams possibly being better that their SHL counterparts) but without the pressure of killing a franchise. Dvorsky being a -6 with limited playing time is in company of other young guys (Stakkestad -11, Landén -9). Their lines/pairings all started working without them.

Hockeyallsvenskan and continuing with AIK likely would have been the best option since it's a team on the rise in a more forgiving league but OHL and AHL are also way better options than SHL right now.

I think the Blues made a good call.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

1 goal and 3 assists tonight against a very good London team.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

3 goals and an assist so far tonight.

 

[stl76]

3 goals and an assist so far tonight.

Some other recent highlights:

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Another big game tonight with 1 G and 2 A. 32 points in 19 games.

 

[slumpy43]

21 points in his last 10