Prospect Info: Expectations for Timothy Liljegren in 2020-21

[the wood guy]

I agree I would like to see Lily get more minutes but my confidence in Moore to be the teacher he needs took a big hit last year . Those after game interviews left a bad taste. As far as linemates he needs a good vet like Muzzin to show him the ropes and steady him down till he gets his feet under him. If all we have for a linemate is Marincin then its just not going to work. I just think his best bet at improving is with Keefe.
As far as Lehtonen goes I am certainly hoping he is starting material but that is still up in the air and the KHL plays fewer games than the NHL so he probably shouldn't be playing every day anyway.
The other reason for more platooning of defencemen next season is ,and I'm guessing here, the schedule will probably be a bit crammed to get as many games in as possible over a short season.

 

[Mugzy97]

He dropped because he had mono in his draft year.

He dropped in the draft because he had mono.

That seems like a scapegoat excuse. You think the management people who passed on him didn't know he had mono?

To be clear, I want him to succeed, I want him to become a great defenseman, I do not think he is a bust or even close to it, I know he has lots of time to figure it out.

I just get the feeling that if he does end up failing or becoming a bust it will be because of his lack of toolbox.

 

[kb]

That seems like a scapegoat excuse. You think the management people who passed on him didn't know he had mono?

To be clear, I want him to succeed, I want him to become a great defenseman, I do not think he is a bust or even close to it, I know he has lots of time to figure it out.

I just get the feeling that if he does end up failing or becoming a bust it will be because of his lack of toolbox.

They knew. They just didn't see him play well because of it.

 

[stickty111]

That seems like a scapegoat excuse. You think the management people who passed on him didn't know he had mono?

To be clear, I want him to succeed, I want him to become a great defenseman, I do not think he is a bust or even close to it, I know he has lots of time to figure it out.

I just get the feeling that if he does end up failing or becoming a bust it will be because of his lack of toolbox.

No they passed on him because his play in his draft after Mono wasn't strong, and thought it would affect his play. They ended up being wrong

You have zero evidence of that, yet you somehow think it's the likely thing that holds him back?
I think you need find the difference between speculation and making stuff up.

 

[member 300185]

That seems like a scapegoat excuse. You think the management people who passed on him didn't know he had mono?

To be clear, I want him to succeed, I want him to become a great defenseman, I do not think he is a bust or even close to it, I know he has lots of time to figure it out.

I just get the feeling that if he does end up failing or becoming a bust it will be because of his lack of toolbox.

Its exactly why he dropped in the draft. Were you born yesterday? Everyone knows that. He couldn't play, therefore, he dropped in the draft. Come on man.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Liljegren is a prospect not a regular. He had a great development year this past year. His best ever development year to date. He’s ready to just take a job on the right side in the very near future. That skating, good shot, poise will all come together but he needs playing time. Ceci took his ice time. Next year he will get eased in to more playing time. We all know prospects are not rushed any longer with leafs. He won’t be rushed. I don’t know when the game will click on him but i trust it will and he will be a 30 point player that scores a few too.

He’s a patient methodical kid in his development so far. Always defense first right now and maybe just a little gun shy to take risks. They will likely have to tell him to skate the puck and push him. Just a confidence thing really. The skills/ poise are there.

 

[Mugzy97]

Its exactly why he dropped in the draft. Were you born yesterday? Everyone knows that. He couldn't play, therefore, he dropped in the draft. Come on man.

People seen him play before the mono kicked in so they could have made an informed decision. Saying he dropped in the draft because of mono is not fact. It’s speculation.

 

[stickty111]

People seen him play before the mono kicked in so they could have made an informed decision. Saying he dropped in the draft because of mono is not fact. It’s speculation.

No it's fact. He dropped because his play after mono wasn't up to par.
You know whats not speculation and making stuff up? Saying he will fail because of a lack of toolbox

 

[meefer]

I think his exposure to the Leafs this year, his inclusion on the 'Black Aces' group heading into the playoffs, and next year's training camp will provide TL with a solid base to move into the D group for next season. While an upgrade on the R would be great to see, I've no sense that something will be done due to salary cap difficulties. This leaves me with confusion as to how best the group we have could/should be deployed. I'm hoping one of Dermott or Lehtonen can successfully transition to the R side and play with Rielly. Muzz and Holl would take the tougher D assignments followed by Reilly-Dermott/Lehtonen, leaving a rotation of D/L/Sandin-Liljegren to man the 3rd pairing. Based on experience, I'd hope a Dermott-Liljegren pairing, but if Dermott pairs with Mo, that leaves a 3 rookies to man the 3rd...not ideal. I might be convinced to try the following:
Rielly-Holl
Muzzin-Liljegren
Sandin-Dermott
Lehtonen
A big ask of TL, for sure, but being tutored by Jake would not be the worst thing for his development, and the kid does have some skills.

 

[mapleleaf979]

He dropped in the draft because he had mono.

Wrong. He dropped because of hockey sense issues. Leafs didnt pass on Morgan Reilly because of his ACL tear, which is far worse than a bout of mono. Mono or not, Liljegren still makes some very bizarre decisions like u would playing minor hockey. At this point the game is chaos although Liljegren might be able to play at the NHL level, he better not try to be a puck rusher, puck mover.

 

[Mugzy97]

No it's fact. He dropped because his play after mono wasn't up to par.
You know whats not speculation and making stuff up? Saying he will fail because of a lack of toolbox

I never said he would fail, now you're making stuff up.

 

[stickty111]

I never said he would fail, now you're making stuff up.

You said if he fails it will be because of his lack of toolbox. There is no evidence of that though. Why can't it be another reason?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I think his exposure to the Leafs this year, his inclusion on the 'Black Aces' group heading into the playoffs, and next year's training camp will provide TL with a solid base to move into the D group for next season. While an upgrade on the R would be great to see, I've no sense that something will be done due to salary cap difficulties. This leaves me with confusion as to how best the group we have could/should be deployed. I'm hoping one of Dermott or Lehtonen can successfully transition to the R side and play with Rielly. Muzz and Holl would take the tougher D assignments followed by Reilly-Dermott/Lehtonen, leaving a rotation of D/L/Sandin-Liljegren to man the 3rd pairing. Based on experience, I'd hope a Dermott-Liljegren pairing, but if Dermott pairs with Mo, that leaves a 3 rookies to man the 3rd...not ideal. I might be convinced to try the following:
Rielly-Holl
Muzzin-Liljegren
Sandin-Dermott
Lehtonen
A big ask of TL, for sure, but being tutored by Jake would not be the worst thing for his development, and the kid does have some skills.

This is a HUGE ask for all involved but I do like Lily getting trained up with Muzzy for a couple years. We have screwed around with development of our D core for far too long. I think you may see Dermy with Rielly. They have been skating together for past 2 weeks and from what I have been told Keefe is happy with it. and Holl is a 3rd liner. A good 3rd liner but a 3rd liner. under that plan we got 3 pairs of a vet with a rookie.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Wrong. He dropped because of hockey sense issues. Leafs didnt pass on Morgan Reilly because of his ACL tear, which is far worse than a bout of mono. Mono or not, Liljegren still makes some very bizarre decisions like u would playing minor hockey. At this point the game is chaos although Liljegren might be able to play at the NHL level, he better not try to be a puck rusher, puck mover.

This is a post that makes me wonder where some of this stuff comes from. This is defense not forward and every prospect that is drafted are nit there between the ears for the Nhl. Considering his age, progression with the Marlies, very last cut in camp, first taste, quality of play he displayed to this point, he is a very very good prospect right now.
Main thing is sometimes your puzzle piece just doesn’t fit for reason we all know including cap restraints. Liljegren is finally jut getting right on the cusp of fitting in and continuing the needed next step development and a post like this Completely misses everything. You missed everything how! Not being sh!tty with you,i just don’t understand where this thinking develops. He’s 21. Thats raw rookie when proper development is in play.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This is a post that makes me wonder where some of this stuff comes from. This is defense not forward and every prospect that is drafted are nit there between the ears for the Nhl. Considering his age, progression with the Marlies, very last cut in camp, first taste, quality of play he displayed to this point, he is a very very good prospect right now.
Main thing is sometimes your puzzle piece just doesn’t fit for reason we all know including cap restraints. Liljegren is finally jut getting right on the cusp of fitting in and continuing the needed next step development and a post like this Completely misses everything. You missed everything how! Not being sh!tty with you,i just don’t understand where this thinking develops. He’s 21. Thats raw rookie when proper development is in play.

Kida under 24 in NHL are still learning how to wipe their *ss ... defense is hardest position to learn and play ... it is so much more than pure skill level

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This is a HUGE ask for all involved but I do like Lily getting trained up with Muzzy for a couple years. We have screwed around with development of our D core for far too long. I think you may see Dermy with Rielly. They have been skating together for past 2 weeks and from what I have been told Keefe is happy with it. and Holl is a 3rd liner. A good 3rd liner but a 3rd liner. under that plan we got 3 pairs of a vet with a rookie.

Ceci doesn’t deserve to take Liljegren’s ice time and Ceci doesn’t process the game the way Liljegren does. Liljegren is the better player right now and playing with Muzzin who has always processed the game well would Benefit a rookie playing his right side with structural aspects of his positioning, reading the game and defending physically when it is needed. Another thing never much mentioned about Muzzy is his offensive reads are really safe and nice quality. Liljegren could actually let Muzzy be the offensive guy in the process of learning coverage. I like the idea of Muzzy/ Liljegren too.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Wrong. He dropped because of hockey sense issues. Leafs didnt pass on Morgan Reilly because of his ACL tear, which is far worse than a bout of mono. Mono or not, Liljegren still makes some very bizarre decisions like u would playing minor hockey. At this point the game is chaos although Liljegren might be able to play at the NHL level, he better not try to be a puck rusher, puck mover.

Not this past year he did not. Not any more than most defensemen make. Nobody expects perfection, but he made smarter plays on the back end than Sandin last year, and Sandin's Hockey IQ is his most appealing quality.

Even in his draft year, he was not dropped because of his hockey sense. There were concerns about his offensive ability for being a puck-moving, smaller guy and of course the fact that the mono sapped a good chunk of a year away from him and his development. His IQ was never a concern. Some felt as though he likely needed to take fewer risks as he got to higher levels since he was more likely to be burned by them, but if you are always taking the right risks and they mostly turn out, why would you not reap the high rewards?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Not this past year he did not. Not any more than most defensemen make. Nobody expects perfection, but he made smarter plays on the back end than Sandin last year, and Sandin's Hockey IQ is his most appealing quality.

Even in his draft year, he was not dropped because of his hockey sense. There were concerns about his offensive ability for being a puck-moving, smaller guy and of course the fact that the mono sapped a good chunk of a year away from him and his development. His IQ was never a concern. Some felt as though he likely needed to take fewer risks as he got to higher levels since he was more likely to be burned by them, but if you are always taking the right risks and they mostly turn out, why would you not reap the high rewards?

Liljegren and Sandin are 3 or 4 years off from steady confident semi prime and 5 or 6 from prime. Nice post.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Liljegren and Sandin are 3 or 4 years off from steady confident semi prime and 5 or 6 from prime. Nice post.

This has been our main problem with Leafs over past 60 years ... people have very unrealistic expectations of time it takes to learn/play pro defense ... and we have screwed up so many i can't even count .. we have no peer in NHL history for poor defender development

 

[Menzinger]

This has been our main problem with Leafs over past 60 years ... people have very unrealistic expectations of time it takes to learn/play pro defense ... and we have screwed up so many i can't even count .. we have no peer in NHL history for poor defender development

Yep.

The closest thing people have for a comparison was Rielly, but he was a top 5 pick and was on a different development trajectory

 

[Stephen]

He's at that awkward prospect age where he's no longer the fresh pick, hasn't landed a full time NHL job and people begin slipping him into bigger packaged deals. Kind of like Kasperi Kapanen 2 years ago.

 

[zeke]

Leafs Top-35 pick prospects last 10 drafts at age 20:

#1 Auston 157gm, 79gls/139pts, +27 (AHL 0gm, 0gls/0pts) - 1st full yr Age 19
#4 Mitch 172gm, 44gls/143pts, -1 (AHL 0gm, 0gls/0pts) ---- 1st full yr Age 19
#5 Rielly 154gm, 10gls/56pts, -29 (AHL 22gm, 2gls/4pts) -- 1st full yr Age 19
#8 Willy 109gm, 29gls/78pts, -2 (AHL 94gm, 39gls/91pts) - 1st full yr Age 20
#29 Sandin 28gm, 1gls/8pts, -7 (AHL 78gm, 8gls/53pts) - 1st full yr Age 20?

#7 Kadri 30gm, 3gls/12pts, -4 (AHL 44gm, 17gls/41pts) ---- 1st full yr Age 22
#22 Kappy 17gm, 1gls/1pts, -5 (AHL 121gm, 36gls/91pts) - 1st full yr Age 22
#17 Lilly 11gm, 0gls/1pts, -5 (AHL 160gm, 9gls/71pts) ----- 1st full yr Age ??
#32 Dermy 0gm, 0gls/0pts, +0 (AHL 70gm, 6gls/29pts) -- 1st full yr Age 22

#21 Goat 7gm, 0gls/1pts, -5 (AHL 65gm, 6gls/18pts) -------- 1st full yr Age 23
#25 Percy 0gm, 0gls/0pts, +0 (AHL 93gm, 5gls/30pts)
#22 Biggs 0gm, 0gls/0pts, +0 (AHL 65gm, 8gls/10pts)
#35 Finn 0gm, 0gls/0pts, +0 (AHL 28gm, 1gls/3pts)
#31 Korshkov 0gm

 

[mapleleaf979]

Liljegren is a prospect not a regular. He had a great development year this past year. His best ever development year to date. He’s ready to just take a job on the right side in the very near future. That skating, good shot, poise will all come together but he needs playing time. Ceci took his ice time. Next year he will get eased in to more playing time. We all know prospects are not rushed any longer with leafs. He won’t be rushed. I don’t know when the game will click on him but i trust it will and he will be a 30 point player that scores a few too.

He’s a patient methodical kid in his development so far. Always defense first right now and maybe just a little gun shy to take risks. They will likely have to tell him to skate the puck and push him. Just a confidence thing really. The skills/ poise are there.

Poise? Its the opposite right now, Panic.

Gun shy to take risks? Thats his main problem, playing outside himself. Didnt u see the 1 on 4 pinch that resulted in a turnover and goal 5 seconds later? His pinches were risky and one in particular he was clogging a lane and over crowding an area making it easy to defend. U also mention last cut, that means nothing. He was going to make the team for cap purposes to start the year. Liljegren had a poor camp, i respect he admitted it and is very honest assessing himself. Liljegren is not an offensive defenseman, he has poor hands and I question his instincts, his game feel, etc. In his 2nd game he kept it simple, didnt take risks and moved pucks quickly. Despite my read on Liljegren, I root for this guy to do well because he comes across as humble, honest player. Also the Leafs biggest weakness is the D core and the right side in particular.

 

[BlueBaron]

I would say there are too many moving parts to say with certainty yet but I think he gets the #3 RHD spot. His price is right and he's a balanced enough D that he can be eased into higher lines and special teams as we have injuries.

A more interesting question to me is what the hell happens with Dermott? If he's shifted to RHD to make room for Sandin then Timmy gets shafted because there is no way we don't bring in another RHD by trade or FA.

If Timmy and Sandin are on the team it could mean that Dermott is gone.

 

[Mugzy97]

You said if he fails it will be because of his lack of toolbox. There is no evidence of that though. Why can't it be another reason?

He obviously has a boatload of skill, but from interviews and social media it seems to me like he's not the sharpest kid. It's just my opinion that he could possibly fail due to the lack of toolbox. I never said there was evidence or that there may be some other reason, I don't know why you're so offended by me sharing my opinion on a hockey talk website where people share their opinion.

Like I said, I'm a huge leafs fan and I really hope he becomes what some people think he will become.