Prospect Info: Expectations for Timothy Liljegren in 2020-21

[Wafflewhipper]

My expectations have plumetted for him, to be honest. When I watch Marlies highlights, he looks incredible, but his time in Toronto was...not good. I'd rather ice Ceci as of today. We will see what next year brings. He needs to slot in next to someone steady.

Damn that sucks. Demote him to the Echl growlers i guess now. Harsh ha

 

[Wafflewhipper]

It really does.

Newly crowned 2019-2020 CHL defenceman of the year Noel Hoefenmayer is almost 4 months older than Liljegren.

Great perspective, it really is just different routes. The development still continues in the Ahl proven player

 

[goleafsgo1990]

He needs to jump out of his comfort level and challenge the league and trust his skills. Basically he needs to fear nothing including the odd mistake. He needs to trust his skating,skills and smarts. Muzzy is a best case scenario to bring him along. I sure hope he doesn’t get in to a pattern like we have seen from Gauthier with his passive boxed up game that has stalled because he thinks its “good enough”. There should be no good enough in a players thoughts or it won’t work.
He needs to be agressive with his next phase to push his development to nhl’er

At least Lilly is coming up with his old coach and not Babs, should help the intimidation and screw-up fear factors. Although I believe his last callup was with Keefe and he was still pretty timid an nervous.

He's the kind of player that has to stew in his mistakes for a while until it just clicks one day. Since his draft he's made a lot of mistakes but has also, in imo, developed the furthest of any of our prospects.

The confidence will come when he realizes he's got it all, just needs the experience. A defensively responsible veteran would speed that process up.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

We're spoiled by the Makar's of the world.EDIT: lol even Makar is 21, so scratch that.

McAvoy was 20 in his rookie stint, same age as Lilly now. Easy to forget how young Lilly is.

With that being said, I don't want him playing unless it's beside a defensively strong player.

Makar and McAvoy have been extremely sheltered playing with long time vets who know game inside and out ... much easier for a rook to come in and play with a Robinson or Langway type

 

[Wafflewhipper]

At least Lilly is coming up with his old coach and not Babs, should help the intimidation and screw-up fear factors. Although I believe his last callup was with Keefe and he was still pretty timid an nervous.

He's the kind of player that has to stew in his mistakes for a while until it just clicks one day. Since his draft he's made a lot of mistakes but has also, in imo, developed the furthest of any of our prospects.

The confidence will come when he realizes he's got it all, just needs the experience. A defensively responsible veteran would speed that process up.

The money these guys can make is insane. Just be a warrior and take your pounding for 10 or 15 years and you are set for life to do whatever you like by 40 years old. I would just be a animal for fitness and drive if i was ever as fortunate as them to have that type of talent. Work his arse off now and he can have a good life in 20 years fly fishing with mats ha. Show jam and show a chip on his shoulder on the ice and he’s a fan favourite in a handful of years or so.

 

[biotk]

Makar and McAvoy have been extremely sheltered playing with long time vets who know game inside and out ... much easier for a rook to come in and play with a Robinson or Langway type

Makar played with Graves this year. Graves had previously played 26 career games averaging 11 minutes. But Graves is a 6' 5" 220 pound defensive physical D. They compliment each other extremely well. McAvoy has played with Chara, but that is not sheltering - that is going up against the best and playing the toughest minutes with someone who can help you develop as you go. Hughes played with Tanev. Boqvist played with Keith. The Leafs are the ones trying to recreate the wheel here. It is not just easier for a rookie to come in an play with a great vet it is better for their development. If you can't do that (for instance Girard was already paired with Johnson on the Avs) then at least put them with someone who is take care of the areas where they are weak (as the Avs did with Makar).

 

[IPS]

Makar played with Graves this year. Graves had previously played 26 career games averaging 11 minutes. But Graves is a 6' 5" 220 pound defensive physical D. They compliment each other extremely well. McAvoy has played with Chara, but that is not sheltering - that is going up against the best and playing the toughest minutes with someone who can help you develop as you go. Hughes played with Tanev. Boqvist played with Keith. The Leafs are the ones trying to recreate the wheel here. It is not just easier for a rookie to come in an play with a great vet it is better for their development. If you can't do that (for instance Girard was already paired with Johnson on the Avs) then at least put them with someone who is take care of the areas where they are weak (as the Avs did with Makar).

Leafs have 1 guy that can do that - Muzzin. And he's LHD, so you can't really bring Sandin up to play with him.

Leafs D needs some serious re-configuring.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Makar played with Graves this year. Graves had previously played 26 career games averaging 11 minutes. But Graves is a 6' 5" 220 pound defensive physical D. They compliment each other extremely well. McAvoy has played with Chara, but that is not sheltering - that is going up against the best and playing the toughest minutes with someone who can help you develop as you go. Hughes played with Tanev. Boqvist played with Keith. The Leafs are the ones trying to recreate the wheel here. It is not just easier for a rookie to come in an play with a great vet it is better for their development. If you can't do that (for instance Girard was already paired with Johnson on the Avs) then at least put them with someone who is take care of the areas where they are weak (as the Avs did with Makar).

I guess sheltering means different things to different eras of players ... in my day i did da sheltering ... usually played with smaller skilled guys who could skate and move puck. When they had nowhere to go it was to me and I would eat it. when someone was trying to scare them then we went on a canoe ride. but it was much easier to slow game down and force speedier guys into bad spots from them on ice. where much damage could be done to them. not every guy could be intimidated but the vast majority were. a stick in da nuts. an elbow to da face. and a few words about next time venturing to this spot and most guys you would not see again.

 

[biotk]

I guess sheltering means different things to different eras of players

True. But I think in today's context it generally means going up against weak quality of competition.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Rielly
Muzzy
Lehtonen
Dermott
Holl
Sandin/Liljegren

Is that going to be a dominant defense next year! We don’t know but Dermott/Sandin and Liljegren are very very important to cost efficiencies going forward. I don’t put Holl in that category. He is who i would trade out and Dermott is a full keep.

 

[zeke]

Rielly
Muzzy
Lehtonen
Dermott
Holl
Sandin/Liljegren

Is that going to be a dominant defense next year! We don’t know but Dermott/Sandin and Liljegren are very very important to cost efficiencies going forward. I don’t put Holl in that category. He is who i would trade out and Dermott is a full keep.

Holl is a hard, hard keep for me. Absolutely crucial.

 

[zeke]

makar and McAvoy are entirely different situations.

McAvoy faces elite tough matchup usage, with Krug the super sheltered one in that top 4. McAvoy is a legit 2-way stud. Another epic draft pick by the bruins.

Makar gets sheltered like Krug, with Girard/Johnsson taking the top line matchups.

For the Leafs now that'll be Muzz/Holl taking the McAvoy/chara and girard/Johnson role, allowing Rielly to finally get softer usage...though that won't be as soft as krug and makar get.

Even if we don't sign anyone, that spot beside Rielly should be a nice cushy spot for dermott/sandin/liljegren to fight over next year.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Holl is a hard, hard keep for me. Absolutely crucial.

A strong defense regardless works for me. I wouldn’t move Dermott. Not yet anyway.

 

[zeke]

A strong defense regardless works for me. I wouldn’t move Dermott. Not yet anyway.

Yeah i'd like to keep him too. I do think Holl is plain better at the moment and plays the right side, so losing him is a non-starter to me.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Yeah i'd like to keep him too. I do think Holl is plain better at the moment and plays the right side, so losing him is a non-starter to me.

Lehtonen can play right side and expressed he kind of prefers the right side better.

I think he will play right side if you are of the belief as i am that the best defenseman in the Khl is capable of playing in the nhl. That doesn’t bode well for Liljigren.

I believe we have to get Liljegren playing in the Nhl and another difficulty is the expansion draft. I would rather see the team trade out a asset and regroup the defense later. That means staying out of the Ufa market if we don’t make a trade this years draft etc. Then the flat cap. Damn I don’t even think i have a grasp of where this is going anymore.
Hyman and Andersen don’t even need to be protected as Ufa’s as we can sign them after the expansion draft i was thinking. I can’t wait until the expansion draft is over with actually, its complicating things

 

[zeke]

Lehtonen can play right side and expressed he kind of prefers the right side better.

I think he will play right side if you are of the belief as i am that the best defenseman in the Khl is capable of playing in the nhl. That doesn’t bode well for Liljigren.

I believe we have to get Liljegren playing in the Nhl and another difficulty is the expansion draft. I would rather see the team trade out a asset and regroup the defense later. That means staying out of the Ufa market if we don’t make a trade this years draft etc. Then the flat cap. Damn I don’t even think i have a grasp of where this is going anymore.
Hyman and Andersen don’t even need to be protected as Ufa’s as we can sign them after the expansion draft i was thinking. I can’t wait until the expansion draft is over with actually, its complicating things

Looks to me like we finally have the makings of a big, mobile, tough, skilled pairing that can dominate top-end 1st line matchups. For the first time in maybe....25yrs?

I'd do all I can to keep that together, even if it means trading our 3rd best LHD.

Lehtonen? Love the signing but I'm not counting on anything until he shows it. Hoping for another Mikheyev instead of another Rosen.

 

[FraumBallard]

He is close to being ready if not alteady. A great training camp and he should be on the roster. He is still a really good prospect, who has established himself as an elite AHL defenseman. Now he needs to take the next step. He was fine in the NHL but looked nervous.

Another soft Dman.
Nothing special.
Unless you like soft Dmen.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

The only pairing I’m sure of next season is Muzzin-Holl. They’ve become our shutdown and matchup pairing. The rest is mostly up in the air.

Rielly will of course be anchoring the left side on the next pair, but his partner is still a mystery, and I think it’s between Dermott and Lehtonen. Dermott has always been the player mentioned when people try to think of someone moving from left d to the right side, but there is a case for Lehtonen to be there.

Lehtonen is left handed but said he’s comfortable playing the right side. He’ll be new to North American ice but he won’t be a stranger to NHL competition, as he was a heavily relied upon in the last IIHF Championship when Finland won gold. He’s said to be a signing who can step right in and play in the NHL with little transition needed. Rielly I find tends to play better with a partner who doesn’t need too much hand holding, and the level of competition he’ll face Lehtonen should be capable of handling.

Dermott whenever he’s played the right side has not been all that good imo. When he’s on the left side he looks a lot more comfortable and plays more effectively. However he has a big advantage over Lehtonen, that being the fact that he’s played in the NHL going on four years now, and he’s been in the Leafs organization since 2015. He knows the guys in the room and has played with most of the other defensemen. He’s also been relied upon in big minutes, especially this season given our injury troubles.

Whoever loses that battle will be placed on the third pair, and then it's a battle between Liljegren and Sandin. If Dermott and Lehtonen can switch to and effectively play the right side then it shouldn't matter who wins out between Sandin and Liljegren. If Dermott does become Rielly's partner then the platoon system with Lehtonen, Sandin, and Liljegren can take place. If it's Lehtonen with Rielly and Dermott on the third pair then it'll just be Sandin and Liljegren having to switch out since I doubt Dermott would be willing to (nor should he) sit out every now and again.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Liljegren wont be in the NHL full time before Sandin, even if that means Sandin is the 3rd pair right side, over himself. I think below is possible with Dermott and Lehtonen switching spots depending on who fairs better. I cant see Liljegren beating anyone out thats below.

Reilly-Dermott
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Lehtonen

Liljegren may need time but thats not my read. Im worried about whats going on in his head. The only hope for Liljegren is for him to drop his offensive ambitions he has, stop forcing a pinch, a pass, a puck rush, etc. Be a defensive first defenseman. Liljegren does not have the IQ or the hands to be an NHL top 4 puck rusher, it wont happen in his career. Whats the biggest difference between Liljegren and Sandin? Hockey sense. Sandin made a few plays, like the flip pass to Nylander and a couple other very heady plays which were pretty eye opening. Liljegren didnt do that once.

 

[kb]

I love Liljegren's potential, but I would definitely look at resigning Ceci if he was willing to come back at $2 million or so on a 1 year deal.

 

[deletethis]

A strong defense regardless works for me. I wouldn’t move Dermott. Not yet anyway.

It depends. If a trade of Dermott strengthens the right side for the next half dozen seasons, then you've got to jump on it. Left side defensemen are much easier to source. I may be alone on an island with this but I'm willing to entertain dealing Rielly if it makes a long term impact on the right side.

I wouldn't trade Liljegren unless it's returning something special and long term. Liljegren as a prospect has the potential to shore up the right side economically.

 

[Mugzy97]

Seems like a guy who has all the tools and no toolbox. Maybe he dropped in the draft after some interviews with GMs and they realized it was like talking to a bag of nails. All speculation tho.

 

[zeke]

I love Liljegren's potential, but I would definitely look at resigning Ceci if he was willing to come back at $2 million or so on a 1 year deal.

We might catch a break with this shutdown, as many players may be willing to sign a lower cost one year deal and wait a year before signing a multi year deal.

 

[kb]

We might catch a break with this shutdown, as many players may be willing to sign a lower cost one year deal and wait a year before signing a multi year deal.

That was my thinking exactly. This is not the ideal year to be a UFA. Some might opt for the blanket security of a signed 1 year deal over the uncertainty of going UFA.

 

[stickty111]

Seems like a guy who has all the tools and no toolbox. Maybe he dropped in the draft after some interviews with GMs and they realized it was like talking to a bag of nails. All speculation tho.

It's not speculation. Thats you making stuff up. Liljegren turned himself into an elite AHL defenseman, and now just because he wasn't amazing in the NHL in limited minutes, you think he has no toolbox and dropped in the draft? You can spread this stuff if you want though.