Expansion Draft Discussion II

[alphafox]

This is sort of where I am at on Murray. I think if he plays with a more stay at home solid D man, he has a season that would look a lot different then the one that he had.

I think this is the key to determining what you do with Murray. If you believe that he has elevated his partners at the expense of his own performance you need to keep him and ship out Johnson. If not then you package up Murray.

Regardless I don't think we have enough ammo to make a move for a 1st line player. Even if we were willing to package a Murray+Milano is not going to land a top line center. If we add Jenner to that we may have something, but that is shipping out a lot of assets to land a likely borderline 1C.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Howson-esque?

All I will say is that if Howson had done everything to get to this point and then ended up actually traded a 1st, a player, and a prospect just to dump Clarkson and lost whoever in the expansion draft, I'd be calling for his head too.

But in this reality, I think it was a masterful job to essentially underpay to be rid of Clarkson while also dictating who ended up being lost to Vegas as a free bonus.

 

[EDM]

Jarmo WILL do something to add to the offense. And it is likely that Murray will be part of that "something". I would not be surprised if whatever he plans to do was factored into the Clarkson deal. Jarmo and JD are not going to stand pat. I just do not believe that.

 

[CBJSlash]

Seems to be the best case scenario. My biggest concern is if this will have any affect on Wennberg mentally. He and Bill were obviously close.

It's one of those things where it's like "well if he can't get over something like that then he shouldn't be in this league", and yeah I get that and certainly believe that he should be a pro and move on, but Wennberg is a crucial player for us and we want him to take some steps forward this year.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid

1.) They can still be friends. He'll be okay.

2.) If we are really trying to make a splash for a big center, teams would want a replacement for the center that they are dealing. Hence Wennberg + Murray is likely the starting place for most teams.

If Dubois had a better year, it would be Dubois + Murray.


Sakic's asking price for Duchene from us was Wennberg + Murray... now if we are talking about MacKinnon we might be able to add a bit...

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Jarmo WILL do something to add to the offense. And it is likely that Murray will be part of that "something". I would not be surprised if whatever he plans to do was factored into the Clarkson deal. Jarmo and JD are not going to stand pat. I just do not believe that.

I understand & somewhat agree.. though that cap space can be used on some of our existing pieces. Are we ready to go all in? Right now we are bear hunting with a shotgun. Better get a big gun that can score at a pt a game pace to make us dangerous. If you can land the scoring element without gutting the core or do something to improve Saad, Wennberg Bjork, and Cam we can increase our odds considerably. Not sure that player is Duchene, not sure it is a Stepan.. looking much more at a Leon Draisaitl or Mark Scheifele type & those guys are not for sale. I think that type player is PLD 3yrs from now so right now how do you get the timing to link up? Move PLD and Murray for the target? I would not do this move.

I don't think we part with Wennberg.. he is one of those foundational players - drafted and developed..pay the man his money & build support. He is the perfect 1B centreman just needs to 1)shoot more 2)get better on the draw - dynamic player right there & we need him and Bjork to really click

 

[DarkandStormy]

So Portzline got the prospect part wrong? Surprising. And Clarkson was always part of this side deal, contrary to Portzline.

This was a case of overvaluing our own players. Does Anderson have much more upside than 3rd line RW? He's a hugely negative possession player at this point in his career. Is Keegan Kolesar a similar prospect, just a couple years younger? Korpisalo is a below-league average backup. Could we not have signed Nilsson or Condon? Or gotten Forsberg an appointment with Bob's therapist to get over his NHL yips? We reportedly can buy out Elvis' NLA contract as well.

I don't think the 1st and a 2nd in a couple years is worth protecting those guys and losing Clarkson, who goes on LTIR Day 1. Doesn't really matter now, the deal is done.

I'm interested in how we'll flip some depth for more high-end talent. If Gavrikov comes over we have a huge log jam at LD. If Milano is NHL ready, we have ~14 NHL-ready forwards plus possibly re-signing Gagner or a FA.

 

[Jackets16]

1.) They can still be friends. He'll be okay.

2.) If we are really trying to make a splash for a big center, teams would want a replacement for the center that they are dealing. Hence Wennberg + Murray is likely the starting place for most teams.

If Dubois had a better year, it would be Dubois + Murray.


Sakic's asking price for Duchene from us was Wennberg + Murray... now if we are talking about MacKinnon we might be able to add a bit...

LOL. I wouldn't trade Murray for Duchene (with his cap hit). There is NO WAY I would trade Murray + Wennberg. Duchene isn't even that much of an upgrade on Wennberg, is older, and costs more. That may be his asking price, but that is also why Duchene is probably still with Colorado.

 

[Jackets16]

I still think we are a year away from making a big move (and we may not need to make one at that point). I want to see how our younger players develop this year before I trade some of them or give big money to someone else.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

This was a case of overvaluing our own players.

I don't think the 1st and a 2nd in a couple years is worth protecting those guys and losing Clarkson, who goes on LTIR Day 1. Doesn't really matter now, the deal is done.

I'm interested in how we'll flip some depth for more high-end talent. If Gavrikov comes over we have a huge log jam at LD. If Milano is NHL ready, we have ~14 NHL-ready forwards plus possibly re-signing Gagner or a FA.

I thought that as the draft went on last night.. is any of the exposed players such a core guy that we cannot lose them.. doesn't matter Jarmo thought so.

We don't know what weight JMFJ carries in the room. Clearly they see a future with Korp, Anderson - was the key. I hope he, Boone and Kolesar become what Jarmo projects them to be.. we will be a nasty team to play against.

 

[CBJSlash]

LOL. I wouldn't trade Murray for Duchene. There is NO WAY I would trade Murray + Wennberg. Duchene isn't even that much of an upgrade on Wennberg, is older, and costs more. That may be his asking price, but that is also why Duchene is probably still with Colorado.

That was definitely reported. And that's definitely why he is still in Colorado.

 

[CBJSlash]

We don't know what weight JMFJ carries in the room.

Literally and figuratively.

He's a workout beast. He's terrific for the young players to be around and pick up habits from. In particularly, Werenski who I believe at one point said he modeled his game after him. Just not financial advice. (Although know maybe his cautionary wisdom has value).

Imagine if Werenski can keep his legs and grow into a JJ body. Wowza.

 

[CBJSlash]

I still think we are a year away from making a big move (and we may not need to make one at that point). I want to see how our younger players develop this year before I trade some of them or give big money to someone else.

Would you do Wennberg + Murray + Prospect for Tavares or MacKinnon?

Neither are likely of course, but if we are aiming for a player, that's the type I'd be aiming for. Just curious.

 

[alphafox]

Would you do Wennberg + Murray + Prospect for Tavares or MacKinnon?

Neither are likely of course, but if we are aiming for a player, that's the type I'd be aiming for. Just curious.

I definitely would for Mackinnon, and probably for Tavares as well. We have a solid top 4 without Murray, and honestly Carllson has me really intrigued for what he can become. Did not seem out of place vs the Pens in the playoffs. The loss of Wennberg would hurt depth, however an eventual Mackinnon-PLD one two punch plus our back end and Bob would put us near the top of the East.

 

[Maylo]

Sakic's asking price for Duchene from us was Wennberg + Murray...

Whaaat? Is this legit?

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Would you do Wennberg + Murray + Prospect for Tavares or MacKinnon?

Neither are likely of course, but if we are aiming for a player, that's the type I'd be aiming for. Just curious.

Where do I sign? I want Tavares as option 1(A) MacKinnon 1(C) Draisaitl 1 (B)

 

[Jackets16]

Would you do Wennberg + Murray + Prospect for Tavares or MacKinnon?

Neither are likely of course, but if we are aiming for a player, that's the type I'd be aiming for. Just curious.

MacKinnon? Yes. Tavares? Maybe. Although, if we were trading for one of them, I'd prefer to find a way to get them without trading Wennberg.

 

[CBJSlash]

Whaaat? Is this legit?

Portzline mentioned it in a chat probably a couple months ago.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Portzline mentioned it in a chat probably a couple months ago.

His track record recently isn't great, so...

 

[Maylo]

Portzline mentioned it in a chat probably a couple months ago.

I hope for the sake of Sakic health this was last year, because it's like asking Caps for Kuzntesov+Shmidt for Duchene.

Btw looks like Avs just lost another bidder on Duchene in Isles, they choose Eberle.

 

[Viqsi]

His track record recently isn't great, so...

His track record of late is actually spot on with the exception of mistakenly listing Ryan Murray.

 

[DarkandStormy]

His track record of late is actually spot on with the exception of mistakenly listing Ryan Murray.

-No prospect involved in side deal with Vegas.
-Clarkson WAS included all along (Porty hinted that he might not have been part of the deal).

 

[CBJSlash]

His track record recently isn't great, so...

I'd suspect that reporters get better information about real ridiculous offers than things that might happen.

"Can you believe they... "


It's human nature.

 

[JKinCLE]

I hope for the sake of Sakic health this was last year, because it's like asking Caps for Kuzntesov+Shmidt for Duchene.

Btw looks like Avs just lost another bidder on Duchene in Isles, they choose Eberle.

I had heard a few places they were trying to land 2 out of 3 of James Van Riemsdyk, Eberle and Duchene. Take it for what its worth. They have assets to do it. If anything I'd say it takes them out of the JVR sweepstakes.

 

[Viqsi]

-No prospect involved in side deal with Vegas.

A future was nonetheless involved.

-Clarkson WAS included all along (Porty hinted that he might not have been part of the deal).

No, he didn't. That was something I read into his second article.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Just a heads-up:
Let's start migrating all general offseason talk to the offseason thread and leave this one for any post-expansion draft assessment. Will leave this thread open another day or so. Thanks.