Expansion Draft Discussion II

[EspenK]

When I looked at the roster LV assembled it seemed they went for a lot of experienced guys who are UFA's next year. I'm not exactly sure what their strategy was. In some cases, Karlsson, Jam, Theodore they went young and I think that should be the way to go but on D they loaded up salary cap pretty heavily. Neal is okay I guess although I would think there was a better choice. Seems like they emulated a Jackets approach in that I think they could win 30-35 games or so and if Fleury is hot maybe more. I would have bet on youth, youth, youth and built thru a few top picks.

I dunno.

 

[Crede777]

I think McPhee overrated the 2017 draft.

They currently have 3 1st round picks. I think one of those guys becomes a solid NHL'er (likely their 6th overall).

 

[DarkandStormy]

I think McPhee overrated the 2017 draft.

They currently have 3 1st round picks. I think one of those guys becomes a solid NHL'er (likely their 6th overall).

They have 29 picks in the next 3 drafts, plus at least one (maybe two?) additional picks in 2020.

They have 15 in the first 3 rounds over the next 3 drafts.

But yes, loading up on rounds 1 and 2 this year may hurt them, depending on how the '18 and '19 draft classes compare.

 

[Old Guy]

-No prospect involved in side deal with Vegas.
-Clarkson WAS included all along (Porty hinted that he might not have been part of the deal).

Hey Dark, I'm not certain what point you are tying to make. If you think Aaron Portzline is not a good reporter or journalist, you are certainly welcome to think that. Did he list a name wrong? Yep. As soon as he realized it, he fixed it.

If he speculated incorrectly about the prospect, so what? The club was trying to keep the deal under wraps. He was trying to find out. I, for one, appreciate everything that man does. I have seen that guy burn the candle at both ends to keep us fans informed. The hours he puts in is insane. Between the columns, the blog, the chats and the podcasts, he goes way above and beyond.

I had a chance to have a really nice long chat with that guy during the Traverse City tournament in 2015. He is really committed to his craft (unlike some). We talked about being first or being right. When forced to choose, he prefers to be right. That's what I want. First isn't always best.

In an industry that is dying, that man is very devoted. If I were him, I would be very tempted to begin to look elsewhere, because he has watched a number of good and decent collegues get shown the door.

I'm not saying you don't deserve to have your opinion, you do. I just happen to disagree and think you are being way too hard on the guy for a very minor matter.

 

[JacketsFanWest]

I think McPhee overrated the 2017 draft.

They currently have 3 1st round picks. I think one of those guys becomes a solid NHL'er (likely their 6th overall).

There's some long term prospects that will be available in the mid 1st to 2nd round who could turn out. But they need time to develop.

The problem with expansion teams is rushing prospects and not being able to surround them with talent to make them successful.

A player like Lukas Sedlak got plenty of time to develop in the minors, then plays on the 4th line with Gagner and Hartnell. Compare that to all the other prospects the Jackets rushed and then had played on the 4th line with fringe NHLers and focused on hitting and defense.

There's no way Vegas doesn't end up rushing prospects or prospects feel they are already penciled into the lineup and don't need to work as hard in the off-season.

 

[blahblah]

Jarmo WILL do something to add to the offense

I'm sure he'll try, but we clearly can't be certain he'll be successful.

 

[blahblah]

Hey Dark, I'm not certain what point you are tying to make. If you think Aaron Portzline is not a good reporter or journalist, you are certainly welcome to think that. Did he list a name wrong? Yep. As soon as he realized it, he fixed it.

I can't speak for Dark, but AP doesn't have an issue letting people think he has more insight than what he has proven to have. As others illustrated, he was pretty sloppy on his coverage of this process. Ultimately I really don't trust his speculation or reporting for that matter; I just don't think he has that level of credibility.

 

[Crede777]

I can't speak for Dark, but AP doesn't have an issue letting people think he has more insight than what he has proven to have. As others illustrated, he was pretty sloppy on his coverage of this process. Ultimately I really don't trust his speculation or reporting for that matter; I just don't think he has that level of credibility.

I generally trust Portzline's insight. If he has a direct quote or gets back up by Mackenzie, then great. He's hit or miss with his speculation. Sometimes he's right (he speculated months ago that the loss would be either Calvert or Karlsson) but when he's wrong he tends to be really wrong.

He also doesn't seem to have a problem generating drama by posting a controversial headline and then going dark.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I can't speak for Dark, but AP doesn't have an issue letting people think he has more insight than what he has proven to have. As others illustrated, he was pretty sloppy on his coverage of this process. Ultimately I really don't trust his speculation or reporting for that matter; I just don't think he has that level of credibility.

This is where I'm at. But, he does do a lot with fan interaction - the chats (the questions he has to deal with in there....), the game night recap videos, Twitter, lots of content for the Dispatch. No one is 100%, but he rarely owns up to his "misses."

 

[blahblah]

This is where I'm at. But, he does do a lot with fan interaction - the chats (the questions he has to deal with in there....), the game night recap videos, Twitter, lots of content for the Dispatch. No one is 100%, but he rarely owns up to his "misses."

I appreciate him doing the things that he and the paper do, although I don't care to indulge in their offerings like I used to. Having said that he'd be better served by realizing his limits.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

As I understand it, Clarkson will remain in Columbus and continue to coach the UA hockey team.

 

[DarkandStormy]

As I understand it, Clarkson will remain in Columbus and continue to coach the UA hockey team.

Yes. He will go fail a physical at the start and end of each season in Vegas and that will basically be all he does for the Knights.

 

[db2011]

Well, glad we still get to watch Calvert in a Jackets jersey

 

[JacketsDavid]

I think McPhee overrated the 2017 draft.

They currently have 3 1st round picks. I think one of those guys becomes a solid NHL'er (likely their 6th overall).

Lot of picks in future years, plus they will also be able to move a lot of the vets for future picks. They easily have 4x the amount of assets (tradeable) than the Jackets had, plus three first round picks. They could easily move a lot of veterans around the deadline if not sooner.
Now I think Vegas will be a bad team this year, but in 2-3 years they will have so many young assets they will be scary. Just my opinion, as always.

 

[Viqsi]

As I understand it, Clarkson will remain in Columbus and continue to coach the UA hockey team.

Source? I mean, that's what I hope for and predict myself, but I'm trying to find confirmation.

 

[Doug19]

why.

 

[Viqsi]

why.

Because.

 

[Socks]

Because.

But then...

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Vegas played it perfectly. No delusions that you can be good the first few years. Use your cap space to take bad contracts with draft picks as the prize. Grab assets you can move to spread out the benefit of the expansion draft. If you have good scouts in place that can find legit talent in the early rounds they should be in a great spot in 2020 or 21 which should always have been the goal.

 

[JacketsFanWest]

I'm not sure the Vegas fanbase is exactly happy with the idea of not winning immediately. I know my cousin who lives in Henderson NV isn't. He's miffed they didn't take any of the big names (he wanted JJ from the CBJ). Taking older players with name recognition wasn't the best approach either, but with all the "create your Vegas Golden Knights roster" simulators out there, a lot of potential Vegas ticket buyers thought they built a better roster.

 

[Crede777]

Lot of picks in future years, plus they will also be able to move a lot of the vets for future picks. They easily have 4x the amount of assets (tradeable) than the Jackets had, plus three first round picks. They could easily move a lot of veterans around the deadline if not sooner.
Now I think Vegas will be a bad team this year, but in 2-3 years they will have so many young assets they will be scary. Just my opinion, as always.

I disagree.

Sheer number of assets doesn't mean much when they're mid-late 1st round picks and later. Maybe they can package them to acquire more proven players, but even then that's more of a lateral move.

Look at the Jackets in 2013. We had 3 firsts in a strong draft and only came away with 1 full time NHL'er - Wennberg. Rychel was a bust and struggles to make an NHL roster. Dano is now on his 3rd team. Same thing with Boston in 2015. Who'd they pick with 13/14/15? Zboril, DeBrusk, and Senshyn. If they're lucky, one of those guys will become an impact NHL'er. And even then that'll be 2 or 3 years from now.

Vegas lacks the scouting network and development curve of established teams. They're going to rush their players and that's just to get a mediocre roster. If they don't rush some high picks, then they are looking at 3 or 4 years minimum of the quality of roster they currently have.

Unless you've got multiple years of picking at the very top of the draft, you need to have an established core which can gradually incorporate the young players. Even then, as we saw with Edmonton, that's not a sure thing.

 

[hockey17jp]

I think a lot of the people that were saying Vegas would be good right out of the gate are biting their tongues now. Not looking like a good team.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Vegas lacks the scouting network and development curve of established teams. They're going to rush their players and that's just to get a mediocre roster. If they don't rush some high picks, then they are looking at 3 or 4 years minimum of the quality of roster they currently have.

Unless you've got multiple years of picking at the very top of the draft, you need to have an established core which can gradually incorporate the young players. Even then, as we saw with Edmonton, that's not a sure thing.

How would you know this? I mean you (nor I) have any idea that they will rush their players? Serioulsy have tey said "Ready or not the kids will play"? I mean it's not IDWT running Vegas.
How do you know their scouting network and development curves are that bad? I mean did you know from day 1 where Columbus, Minny and Nashville would be? I mean Nashville has built consistently over time. Minny has been close but they have had their ups and downs and until recently Columbus has been a horrible franchise (part of it was IDWT, part of it was not spending money early on, a lot was missed draft picks).
I personally think Vegas put toghether a pretty good infrastructure as far as management, I'm not that well versed on scouting and who they have but if you know their scouting department will fail please explain why.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Source? I mean, that's what I hope for and predict myself, but I'm trying to find confirmation.

No link or SM post - it was conversation topic in my former newsroom among the HS sports writers.

 

[Crede777]

How would you know this? I mean you (nor I) have any idea that they will rush their players? Serioulsy have tey said "Ready or not the kids will play"? I mean it's not IDWT running Vegas.
How do you know their scouting network and development curves are that bad? I mean did you know from day 1 where Columbus, Minny and Nashville would be? I mean Nashville has built consistently over time. Minny has been close but they have had their ups and downs and until recently Columbus has been a horrible franchise (part of it was IDWT, part of it was not spending money early on, a lot was missed draft picks).
I personally think Vegas put toghether a pretty good infrastructure as far as management, I'm not that well versed on scouting and who they have but if you know their scouting department will fail please explain why.

I don't know their scouting department specifically, but I do know it takes years to develop a well-structured scouting network and development system for new franchises, even if they have a veteran GM.

But let's say they draft average or above average for an NHL team. Free agency and trading is much less of a viable means of creating a competitive team than it was 10 years ago. This creates a problem:

Players taken in the 2017 draft at 6th, 13th, and 15th won't likely be ready for the NHL for 2 or 3 years. They're probably 3 to 5 years away from becoming actual impact players at that level. Players taken in 2018 (unless perhaps the 1st or 2nd overall) won't likely be ready for 4 or 5 years from now and are even further away from becoming impact players.

So Vegas has a choice. They can either rush players and have a better roster now or they can try to let players develop slowly in which case they're looking at having a roster with the same quality (quite low based on the ED) for 3 to 5 years.

Rushing players is a band aid and creates problems further down the line.

Obviously, then, the team should be patient. The problem with that approach is if the team continually finishes near the bottom for 3 to 5 years, that's toxic to the team's environment. Once young players ARE deemed ready for the NHL, they're entering a locker room which has little established talent and a losing culture. We've seen teams go this route before -- the Jackets, the Oilers, the Islanders, Arizona, etc.

Unless Vegas gets a Connor McDavid or a coach like Babcock and young player like Matthews, it will be extremely hard to buck this trend in 5 or so years.