Confirmed with Link: Erne and Vrana file for Arbitration

[Revenge of Gru]

If you're battered by this offseason... I mean... what? What has he done that is anathema to you? They can't fix everything all at once. They have to take steps towards being an okay hockey team again. They've done that while avoiding any crushing long term commitments, because the guys worth those commitments either aren't coming here (Hamilton, any center of upper end worth on the market) or have signed contracts this offseason that are immediately among the worst in the NHL (see Blake Coleman and Zach Hyman).

Like I don't exactly understand what people are looking for.

This might be hot take time but Nick Leddy is going to do more to help the Detroit Red Wings in 21-22 than Aatu Raty is going to do to help any roster that he lands on in his career.

I think the Leddy trade was dumb. One season of Nick Leddy at this point in the rebuild is a silly luxury.
Signing Bert to 2 years sets him up to leave or be traded. I'm a Bert fan so that's disappointing.
Vrana going to arbitration isn't great.
Trading tons of assets to move up and take a goalie at 15th was pretty ridiculous.
I loved the Neddy trade.
The rest of free agency is just more meh...

 

[Revenge of Gru]

For Erne I mean no personal offense but speaking strictly from a contract standpoint this might be a good place for Yzerman to set an example and just not extend a qualified offer and let him go to UFA. A 4th liner wants to take us to arbitration? Nice knowing you. I don't really see him here long-term nor being much of an impact player if he does.

Vrana it's not welcoming news. He has been here what half a season and takes it to arbitration. I can't imagine the wings deal being much if at all outside his market worth and it makes me feel like this is simply a sign that he already wants out. Kinda feeling like he just set himself up to be traded.

Maybe I am reading too much into it and this is not at all what it means. But this is what crossed my mind.

Erne doesn't concern me at all. Bert on a 2 year deal along with Vrana sets up potential disaster.

 

[DoMakc]

For Erne I mean no personal offense but speaking strictly from a contract standpoint this might be a good place for Yzerman to set an example and just not extend a qualified offer and let him go to UFA. A 4th liner wants to take us to arbitration? Nice knowing you. I don't really see him here long-term nor being much of an impact player if he does.

I don't understand all this doom and gloom about arbitration. If somebody's filing for arbitration it doesn't mean they we will go through the process till the end.

And Erne already got his RFA tender. I think, you want to say, that Red Wings can walk away from his arbitration award

 

[Revenge of Gru]

I don't understand all this doom and gloom about arbitration. If somebody's filing for arbitration it doesn't mean they we will go through the process till the end.

And Erne already got his RFA tender. I think, you want to say, that Red Wings can walk away from his arbitration award

Vrana came from a cup winning team to one that's 7-10 years from contending. I could see him bolting asap.

 

[Henkka]

Vrana came from a cup winning team to one that's 7-10 years from contending. I could see him bolting asap.

So he likes to be a cap problem in a contender, which becomes a less of a contender because he is overpaid?

 

[Retire91]

I don't understand all this doom and gloom about arbitration. If somebody's filing for arbitration it doesn't mean they we will go through the process till the end.

And Erne already got his RFA tender. I think, you want to say, that Red Wings can walk away from his arbitration award

Thanks for the clarification. Admittedly I don't understand the process fully and had not paid much attention to arbitration, I feel like it's only started to come up as an impactful process to us recently.

I understand the process to some degree just not the underlying motivations of the party. They might come to an agreement before the process takes place but isn't filing telegraphing a bit that the player really isn't fully committed to the organization? Is Detroit's offer really that bad?

I respect Varna's employment rights to defend what he wants with his career but he is a key asset to the organization and I don't see Yzerman taking this shot across the bow as a welcome sign.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Vrana came from a cup winning team to one that's 7-10 years from contending. I could see him bolting asap.

10 yrs from now (maybe even 7), our Cup Window will be closing/closed, at least with our current roster+prospects. "10 yrs", hahahahaha.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

So he likes to be a cap problem in a contender, which becomes a less of a contender because he is overpaid?

Not sure where you came up with that. However players tend to be motivated by winning or getting paid. Why would Vrana want to take a team friendly deal and not make the playoffs for the next several years?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Ev.Ho. lines up with my earlier guess for Vrana

3y * $4.75-$4.9.


I'm somewhat reluctant to give >3yrs and/or >$5m to a small-ish, non-physical W that isn't known for 2-way play/Dzone coverage. I know he's not here for that, ergo, 3y * $4.75-$4.9 is fair for both sides, imo.

Small sample size (with DET too).


Getting decent to good value throughout the roster is what SY was able to do in TB, that's how multiple Cups are won & windows are elongated to 5-7+yrs. vs. the standard 2-3yr type (WSH/STL), or the ever popular 1 & done (MTL '21). That's why BOS is still an outside threat (losing Krejci+Rask etc. hurts), but they've had a 10yr run & had plenty of turnover, while much of core remained. COL could be another to join the long window club, but as Red Wings fans, we hope not. Though a 2024 Avs vs. Wings SCF sounds delightful too.

Look at COMPARABLE PRODUCTION.

Vrana is a PROVEN 25 goal scorer. He's a PROVEN 50+ point guy. All without getting meaningful powerplay minutes in Washington.

THOSE GUYS GET PAID OVER 5 MILLION A SEASON. PERIOD.

Highest paid Left Wings
Highest paid Right Wings

You're not getting Vrana for less than 5.5 million no matter how you try and reason it. And that's ok. Why? Because that's a market value deal for him.

And because it's in arbitration the contract can either be 1 or 2 years. It will not exceed that.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

10 yrs from now (maybe even 7), our Cup Window will be closing/closed, at least with our current roster+prospects. "10 yrs", hahahahaha.

Yzerman started in Tampa with Hedman and Stamkos already in the system. Ten years later they won the cup. We haven't even iced any of his draft picks yet.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Yzerman startred in Tampa with Hedman and Stamkos already in the system. Ten years later they won the cup. We haven't even iced any of his draft picks yet.

I'm fine agreeing to disagree. I think our window opens in 3yrs & closes in ~8+yrs from now, with this current roster + prospects.


You're saying we won't even start to compete for 7-10yrs.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Look at COMPARABLE PRODUCTION.

Vrana is a PROVEN 25 goal scorer. He's a PROVEN 50+ point guy. All without getting meaningful powerplay minutes in Washington.

THOSE GUYS GET PAID OVER 5 MILLION A SEASON. PERIOD.

Highest paid Left Wings
Highest paid Right Wings

You're not getting Vrana for less than 5.5 million no matter how you try and reason it. And that's ok. Why? Because that's a market value deal for him.

And because it's in arbitration the contract can either be 1 or 2 years. It will not exceed that.

I get all the market value stuff. Also, I know about the arb. etc., my point is I think SY can get him to sign for that amt: $4.9*3y, before the hearing. It would be a minor underpay/good value deal, while Vrana would be able to compile good stats & set himself up for a Fat 7y * $7.5+ (in 3 seasons from now), aged still in prime....<--------this will be SY's selling points.

 

[Konnan511]

Yzerman started in Tampa with Hedman and Stamkos already in the system. Ten years later they won the cup. We haven't even iced any of his draft picks yet.

Come on, this writing style is so fmailiar. What account were you before it was banned. I promise, if you DM me, I won't tell anyone.

 

[DoMakc]

Vrana came from a cup winning team to one that's 7-10 years from contending. I could see him bolting asap.

sure. I bet this applies to Yzerman as well, he came from the organisation which won two cups in row

 

[Revenge of Gru]

I'm fine agreeing to disagree. I think our window opens in 3yrs & closes in ~8+yrs from now, with this current roster + prospects.


You're saying we won't even start to compete for 7-10yrs.

I don't subscribe to the idea that rookies immediately dominate. We're likely 3 years from most of our prospects making the team. In 7-10 years they will be 24-29 years old. When has a team full of 20-23 years olds contended?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I get all the market value stuff. Also, I know about the arb. etc., my point is I think SY can get him to sign for that amt: $4.9*3y, before the hearing. It would be a minor underpay/good value deal, while Vrana would be able to compile good stats & set himself up for a Fat 7y * $7.5+ (in 3 seasons from now), aged still in prime....<--------this will be SY's selling points.

I think I have a million dollars in my bank account. It doesn't make it true.

The reason why Vrana is in arbitration is because he wants more money. The arbitrator is probably going to give Vrana 5.5+ if Yzerman was offering a paltry 4.9 and Vrana wants 6.5.

The guy is not going to take an underpay to play with Detroit. Stop kidding yourself.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I think the Leddy trade was dumb. One season of Nick Leddy at this point in the rebuild is a silly luxury.
Signing Bert to 2 years sets him up to leave or be traded. I'm a Bert fan so that's disappointing.
Vrana going to arbitration isn't great.
Trading tons of assets to move up and take a goalie at 15th was pretty ridiculous.
I loved the Neddy trade.
The rest of free agency is just more meh...

i mean, you have seen our defense in the last two years? Leddy isn’t a luxury.

Get a defense worth a damn that can start a breakout and maybe you realize that Zadina, Rasmussen, Veleno, Larkin, Vrana, and Bertuzzi are better than you think. Maybe you can bring in Berggren and he can do some stuff.

It is irresponsible to throw in with Bert long term right now without knowing how his back is going to hold up. I get being a fan and wanting him here forever outside of team building sense… but if Bertuzzi’s back is f***ed, a long term deal is an awful idea.

Vrana going to arb is a complete nothing burger. I would have been floored if he HADN’T filed for it. An RFA going to arbitration is literally commonplace.

Ton of assets? They dealt a 2nd and a 5th to move up 8 picks.

 

[jkutswings]

Vrana came from a cup winning team to one that's 7-10 years from contending. I could see him bolting asap.

7-10 years?!? Well now I understand why you're so downtrodden.

Here's my expectations / timeline:
2021 - 10th to 12 worst record
2022 - Flirt with a payoff birth
2023 - Make the playoffs as cannon fodder
2024 - Win a round
2025 - True window of contention begins

That's 5 seasons. If it takes much longer than that, something went wrong. By 2025 the defense should be in very good shape and hopefully they drafted or traded for a very good center to go with the wingers that have developed by then.

 

[RedWingzz]

Hopefully we can lock up Vrana to a nice 4 or 5 year extension before it goes to arbitration. We need NHL level players, and Vrana has all the talent in the world.

 

[lilidk]

Erne doesn't concern me at all. Bert on a 2 year deal along with Vrana sets up potential disaster.

They both could be traded, worse scenario is to lose them for nothing

 

[Revenge of Gru]

i mean, you have seen our defense in the last two years? Leddy isn’t a luxury.

Get a defense worth a damn that can start a breakout and maybe you realize that Zadina, Rasmussen, Veleno, Larkin, Vrana, and Bertuzzi are better than you think. Maybe you can bring in Berggren and he can do some stuff.

It is irresponsible to throw in with Bert long term right now without knowing how his back is going to hold up. I get being a fan and wanting him here forever outside of team building sense… but if Bertuzzi’s back is f***ed, a long term deal is an awful idea.

Vrana going to arb is a complete nothing burger. I would have been floored if he HADN’T filed for it. An RFA going to arbitration is literally commonplace.

Ton of assets? They dealt a 2nd and a 5th to move up 8 picks.

With Leddy the team is still a bottom feeder. Going back to regular scheduling I see them finishing 4th-7th from the bottom.
Teams have medical staffs. They know Bert's condition. They wouldn't give him almost $10 million if they didn't. They should have bought a few of his UFA years last year. Now he likely is gone before their window opens.
I agree. Going to arbitration is no big deal if they sign before the hearing. If it gets to the hearing Vrana is most likely gone.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

7-10 years?!? Well now I understand why you're so downtrodden.

Here's my expectations / timeline:
2021 - 10th to 12 worst record
2022 - Flirt with a payoff birth
2023 - Make the playoffs as cannon fodder
2024 - Win a round
2025 - True window of contention begins

That's 5 seasons. If it takes much longer than that, something went wrong. By 2025 the defense should be in very good shape and hopefully they drafted or traded for a very good center to go with the wingers that have developed by then.

I certainly hope you're right but I think that's extremely optimistic.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

They both could be traded, worse scenario is to lose them for nothing

Yeah I assume they're both traded. Bert for sure. Vrana if they get to the hearing.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Erne went from probably not getting qualifying offer to going to arbitration. He took a limitless pill last year lol!

 

[SergeiYzerman]

To everyone saying "this is going to end badly", the player usually has very little to do with this, and it's usually an agent fighting with the GM. In this instance, it's J.P. Barry, who also represents Elias Pettersson, Quinn Hughes, and is responsible for about half of the bad contracts with the Canucks. His job is to get his guys paid, because if they get paid HE gets paid. Barry and Ferris are both guys that GM's probably don't like talking with.

Yzerman isn't Jim f***ing Benning who will fold like a lawnchair under any tense negotiating. There's likely no resentment between the player and the GM if this happens, but Yzerman is also not like Kenny Holland either, who if we all remember, used to take players going to arbitration PERSONAL with deals like AA and Mrazek.