Eichel OR Matthews

[Dache]

Replying to you and clarifying something you claimed (which even aside from context ignored and small samples used, wasn't very clear in the first place, as you said 1.2 to 1.17, which would imply the opposite) isn't harassing.

You messaged me first actually, changing the context of what I was responding to another poster about. How does saying his ppg is 1.2 since to coaching change from 1.17 imply the opposite of that he has seen a small increase in production?
And why would we use past seasons and this one, where Babcock giving him more ice time and many other variables are in play over just using the season where the coaching change took place?

 

[GOALOFSSON]

All this nonsense about Eichel "doing more with less" yet nobody wants to even touch the fact about how much more PP time/opportunity to produce Eichel gets than Matthews

More PP time with lesser players

*Eichel winning on false statements about linemate quality*
*Leaf fan brings up factor with huge impact*
"EXCUSES!!!!"

Nothing is true here, but like I said previously, gonna be hysterical seeing what you try to come up with in the following seasons

 

[Tage2Tuch]

That was the first time in the modern era when a player drafted 1st overall had 4 goals in their NHL debut.

it was incredible, it was crazy, it was against Ottawa on opening night. Not sure it was his greatest eachievment, I think the fact he hit forty that year was, NHL goalies suck for the ciesf week/month as evidence by goal scoring always being highest in October they have to learn the shooters, the system, the new defenders who joined the team.

but still that was amazing to do I think he scored the fourth goal before the second period was even half over! Lol

 

[Dekes For Days]

You messaged me first actually, changing the context of what I was responding to another poster about.

I didn't. You seem to have just assumed the other poster was talking about the 20-something games this year under Babcock, when he was more likely discussing the baffling decisions Babcock made over the 3+ years he was here with this core.

How does saying his ppg is 1.2 since to coaching change from 1.17 imply the opposite of that he has seen a small increase in production?

You said his production isn't increasing much with added ice time, and then said "(1.2 ppg to 1.17)", which implies a drop (when you are going "to" something, that is usually more recent). You gave no indication of the time frames being used, or the context involved, so I clarified his production changes and impacting factors.

And why would we use past seasons and this one, where Babcock giving him more ice time and many other variables are in play over just using the season where the coaching change took place?

When comparing with only this season, we have a small sample for Babcock during the most high-scoring period of the season, and while his ES TOI increases with Keefe, his PP TOI decreases in comparison to that Babcock sample, which complicates the impact on combined P/GP.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Matthews is a great goal scorer. However Eichel is so versatile. He tilts the ice in a way I have not seen Matthews done on a regular basis, and it's even more impressive doing it with the kind of supporting cast he has.

So as of now: Eichel. In the future we'll see.

This is completely spot on.

Matthews has gAMes where he scores at the best times with a beautiful shot and it tie drag, and is clutch but he really lacks in versatility in comparison to jack. When Eichels steps on the ice the entire game changes, he skates around people for Fun and can set up scoring chances using whatever environment is around him, it’s this innovative style that makes him so fun to watch with his quick hands, it’s a lot like Pettersen, and while jack is much stronger on the puck and more mature (only naturals given the age) EP has probably slightly better vision and he could one day catch up in the other areas he’s only in his second season, but that’s how I see that. I’m not going to compare eichel to mArio, that’s ridiculous but at times he’s Lesser version of that more like lindros meets Malkin, especially when he plays with his body. Which he had been the last two years, his skating has helped him back check and he has been really physical while also defending well. Again all’s round game. It’s like men playing with boys.

MAtthews has amazing hands too but jacks around game is just so impressive this season that it’s not just goals, goals, there’s so much versatility, was the key word.

Be mentioned it was close and could change but the guy hit the nail on the head.

 

[Dirty Dog]

They are equal players eh? Then I'll take the one that is signed to a cheaper contract, that is for two years longer.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

At least Matthews has playoff series to his credit and in 2/3 of them he was Toronto's best player.

When is it going to sink in (FINALLY) that bashing the fact eichel is on a worse team doesent make eichel worse. It’s a desperate attempt to attack the players team when the player is just doing much better in worse circumstances then your player in better circumstanc. It’s a desperate attempt to gain leverage and it fails to everyone who knows hockey isn’t the man and one guy doesent make a team. Since you want to speak 2/3rds by the way, that’s exactly how much Eichels is NOT on the ice every sabres game. So he’s supposed to lift them into the playoffs, there isn’t even another score line on the team as you aptly point out in all your “buffalo had the worst future in the league” posts/threads.

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[LeafsNation75]

but still that was amazing to do I think he scored the fourth goal before the second period was even half over! Lol

His 4th goal was scored at the 19:57 mark of the 2nd period.

Toronto Maple Leafs at Ottawa Senators Box Score — October 12, 2016 | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Tage2Tuch]

All this nonsense about Eichel "doing more with less" yet nobody wants to even touch the fact about how much more PP time/opportunity to produce Eichel gets than Matthews

Oh look it’s the guy who voted eichel to be picked in the second round (32 and over) if a fantasy draft were to take place in a thread just last week.

also the guy who called eichel, a captain and total team player who’s one short of 200 assists in less then 350 games To prove that a “narcissistic cancer who drove ROR out of town” while claiming ROR (when he was a sabres) was a lot better (Even though eichel was in Boston to watch game seven and remains good friends with ROR to this day) showing a reporter it was either a win/win for him if his “friend” or his home team won the cup. ROR couldn’t our score Eichels when he got his spot as top line center when eichel aoeaj Ed his ankle, he then returned in December of 2016 at the age of 19 to go on to beat not only ROR in points that year but even guys like mackinnon who played the full season in scoring despite missing an entire two months and finished
10th in the NHL in points per game. (All that one of the lowest scoring teams in the league and returning from one of the toughest, lingering injuries) yet since that second season Eichels has been in a rampage and has put up since the start of his second season in December over 300 prs in 280 something games.


IPS, I wAs actually growing respect for you as weird as it sounds after awhile but you can put as many laughing emojis as you want. That increased powerplay time means nothing because of you take away all The powerplay points eichel still is a point ahead of Matthews. Eichels never even played next to a 70 pt player in his tenure an Matthews has a 90 pt player on his wing.

leaf fans may like this post of yours but it doesent change the fact that I ws always right about eichel. And everyone but some leaf fans,see That now. Even before I said they were always close but you all told me he was behind in a diffeeent tier despite their points per game being extremely close if not identical or in Eichels favour like in 16-17, or the fact Eichels finished with higher pr goals three years in a row (counting this year)
you can talk Ice time increasing point totals all you like but at the end of the day, always getting harder Matchups as he has no depth and playing with players who don’t score or are near him in talent also influences point totals too. But ya know, keep laughing. I’m glad you’re having a good time. I am.

Then you clearly have not been watching Matthews since the coaching change. He does everything now. He's borderline elite defensively, his goal scoring is still elite but his playmaking has taken a huge step forward. He's great in transition now that his line isn't relegated to dump and chase and he's almost impossible to take the puck off of once he's in the OZ. Eichel is undeniably elite and they're really close, but at absolute peak levels of play, I take Matthews.

that’s fine but even in the last game in the faksa goal, Matthews turned the puck over and still had horrid defensive performances in early December, -3 a couple of times with game winners turned over by him. The leafs forum wAs even saying things like “wish he was more like eichel” as Matthews went pointless ten different times during Eichels 17 game point streak.

Peak eichel has our performed peak Matthews, eichel alesady this season has more points then Matthews has had in Any season ever (writing this before he takes on the sens tonight) but 68 points in 57 games isn’t that amazing, especially on a line with marner and nylander. Or a powerplay unit with Tavares and the likes too.

however 73 points in 56 games is a lot better when your 25 points and 36 points higher then the next two highest sabres in points, who are both HIS line mates, one of which a 7th rd pick/rookie.

Again personal preference, you decided of course but irk just not sure if you see how versatile eichel is, I mean he’s doing everything Matthews has done and better except the goals, which if you haven’t motors he’s still fourth in the NHL in on a team that has no playmaker to even set him up yet Auston has got a 90’point winger playing with him the last two months.

when it comes down to individual skill and all around game, even peak level the answer is really eichel. Personal preference being Matthews for you again, that’s fine i guess, I just will never understand it. It just doesent add up with the eyes or statistically right now. Jack has points in 35 of his last 39
Games and in the four he didn’t score a point he finished with strong defensive performances finishing plus 2 and usually helping the offense when the goal was scored but just not getting a point.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

dude how many times have you posted a Matthews article in the last three days about it him breaking his own records or leaf records. Leaf records suck for the most part and Matthews hasn’t reached the number kf points jack has currently in his career.


It’s not going g to change anything. Everyone sees these headlines keaguenwide in tsn and Sportsnet.

Did you know during Eichels 17 game point streak there wasn’t one thread made about it? Even though jack doesent get mainstream credit yet Matthews gets every headline and if you look back in the past three pages you have made a article tweet post for his last four points he’s gotten.

must you post article after article or tweet about Matthews breaking head insignificant records every single point he gets. It’s hilarious by now. Not only because we’ve all seen it, but because it’s irrelevant in the big picture. The leafs have had a 100 year history and haven’t had too many elite forwards.

What a joke of a thread. Mathews has proveed to be better then Jake at every opportunity of their career's despite being a year behind. Typical BS anti leaf bashing thread here. If anyone honesty believes Jack is better then go get your eyes and head checked. I'll take the super star goal scorer that isn't a coach killer and makes the playoffs every year. Enjoy golf again Sabres fans and players!!

So this thread is a joke because people are picking Eichel and it’s all a conspiracy because everyone hates the leafs.

couldn’t it be because eichel has finished with higher point totals the last three seasons on a worse team (including this year) he has points in 35 of his last 39 gAmes the fact you say people aren’t watching Matthews is a joke he gets all
The headlines, it’s the opposite of anything, eichel is leading literally in every stat over Matthews but total goals, which again comes easier playing with a 90 point winger the last two months. And all this talk about Matthews being superior every step of the way (oh by like a point or two) ? Not nearly significant enough To change consensus.

people are picking eichel Because he has been the better player. Stop playing the victim with Toronto Matthews scores a point against Ottawa and it’s the top story, Eichel literally had a five point night against McDavid last year and it wasn’t even a headline, in any of the twenty headlines on Saturday night it was “Reinharts it winner buries oilers” if anything, people see less of eichel and we know you sure do.

One last thing, it’s interesting you mention eichel being a coach killer. He had nothing but praise for housley and they had a good relationship, the fan base wanted him out and botterill was pressured and now Krueger and him help motivate the guys and he’s one of the only things the team has. Matthews conversely has public issues with Babcock. So if anyone is a coach killer....not that I think Babcock didn’t deserve what he got but it’s funny you want people to check their eyes, when you use your eyes you see eichel own the ice.

mall Matthews does is be as you put it a “super goal scorer” he is bland compared to Eichels. Try watching him some time other then when he plays the leafs. And even then he out performs Matthews.

 

[LeafsNation75]

dude how many times have you posted a Matthews article in the last three days about it him breaking his own records or leaf records. Leaf records suck for the most part and Matthews hasn’t reached the number kf points jack has currently in his career.


It’s not going g to change anything. Everyone sees these headlines keaguenwide in tsn and Sportsnet.

Did you know during Eichels 17 game point streak there wasn’t one thread made about it? Even though jack doesent get mainstream credit yet Matthews gets every headline and if you look back in the past three pages you have made a article tweet post for his last four points he’s gotten.

must you post article after article or tweet about Matthews breaking head insignificant records every single point he gets. It’s hilarious by now. Not only because we’ve all seen it, but because it’s irrelevant in the big picture. The leafs have had a 100 year history and haven’t had too many elite forwards.

Blame the NHL PR Twitter account for posting that information.

Also with Matthews 2 points tonight he's now 2 points behind Eichel for this season.

 

[Dache]

I didn't.

you 100% did, why are you lying and misrepresenting what you did?

You said his production isn't increasing much with added ice time, and then said "(1.2 ppg to 1.17)", which implies a drop

What are you talking about? You can tell that I was implying his production increased because I used the word increase, in what world would someone say his production increased to imply it decreased?

 

[Dache]

Blame the NHL PR Twitter account for posting that information.

Also with Matthews 2 points tonight he's now 2 points behind Eichel for this season.

Sorry did you say after a 2 point night he’s still behind?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Sorry did you say after a 2 point night he’s still behind?

So that makes Matthews look bad or something?

 

[Dekes For Days]

why are you lying and misrepresenting what you did?

The only one doing that here is you. People are allowed to respond to your posts.

What are you talking about? You can tell that I was implying his production increased because I used the word increase, in what world would someone say his production increased to imply it decreased?

You said "isn't increasing much", so no, it was not clear what you meant when putting the numbers the opposite way than most would. Either way, more context was necessary, and that's what I provided.

 

[Dache]

So that makes Matthews look bad or something?

No, just not sure it makes him look as good as you think either

 

[Dache]

The only one doing that here is you. People are allowed to respond to your posts.

You sure are, but it’s ridiculous when you feel the need to lie and say you didn’t

You said "isn't increasing much"

No, actually I didn’t bold anything as to magnify any words. What I typed was “isn’t increasing much” which to apparently only 99% of the population means “isn’t increasing much”

Why are you trying to change my words into something I didn’t say?

 

[NextYear67]

Honestly, this is Matthews AINEC

 

[Future]

They are equal players eh? Then I'll take the one that is signed to a cheaper contract, that is for two years longer.

Well they aren’t equal. Matthews is and has always been better at every stage of their careers. Thus, he gets paid more.

Only player I take over Matthews is McDavid. Period. People will bring up Mackinnon, but Matthews is far beyond where Mackinnon was in his 4th NHL season. I’m excited to see where he’ll be in 3 years.

 

[NextYear67]

Well they aren’t equal. Matthews is and has always been better at every stage of their careers. Thus, he gets paid more.

Only player I take over Matthews is McDavid. Period. People will bring up Mackinnon, but Matthews is far beyond where Mackinnon was in his 4th NHL season. I’m excited to see where he’ll be in 3 years.

Accurate post

 

[Dekes For Days]

No, actually I didn’t bold anything as to magnify any words.

Nobody said you did. I'm showing how you didn't just say the pace was increasing. Your wording (and the way you put the numbers) was misleading. You didn't give the timelines. You didn't give further context that was important to your claim. I gave further context which shows that his total production has been increasing with increased TOI.

 

[Dache]

Nobody said you did. I'm showing how you didn't just say the pace was increasing. Your wording (and the way you put the numbers) was misleading. You didn't give the timelines. You didn't give further context that was important to your claim. I gave further context which shows that his total production has been increasing with increased TOI.

I didn’t “just say the pace was increasing” because what I meant to say was that “it isn’t increasing much” how in the world is that misleading?

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Matthews vs Eichel 19-20 NHL Season by the numbers:


Season as of Sat-2.15/20

Thought I’d go through this to sum
Up this year: you can’t deny numbers even if we all have our opinios, and since they play tommorow:



Total Points- Eichel
More Games Played- Matthews (2 more)
Goals- Matthews
Assists- Eichel

Even Strength Goals- Matthews
Even Strength Assists- Eichel
Even Strength Points- Eichel


Powerplay Goals- Matthews
Powerplay Assists- Eichel
Powerplay Points- (TIED 22)
Powerplay Percentage: Matthews (Beating him by about one percent not sure if that’s team or what)

Overtime Goals- Eichel
Overtime Assists- TIED (3)
Overtime Points- Eichel

Shooting Percentage- Matthews

Short Handed Goals- Eichel
Short Handed Assists- (TIED 0)
Short Handed Points- Eichel

Game Winning Goals- Eichel
Game Winning Assists- Eichel
Game Winning Points- Eichel

Transition Rushes- Eichel
Plus-Minus- Eichel
Faceoffs- Matthews
More shots- Matthews
More scoring chances created- Eichel
Shot blocks- Matthews
Hits- Eichel
Toal Time in Ice- Eichel (1:18 more)
ES TOI: Eichel (18 seconds more)
PP TOI: Eichel (48 seconds more)
SH TOI: Eichel (17 seconds more)

(Those times above looks to give a significant advantage to Eichel however we it becomes a moot point as below shows this, which surprised me for all situations per 60, however Matthews does take the reign as far as goals go in even strength and PP per 60.


Goals Per 60 in all situations- Matthews
Assists Per 60 in all situations- Eichel
POINTS per 60 in all situations- Èichel

ESG Per 60- Matthews
ESA Per 60- Eichel
ESP Per 60- Eichel

PPG Per 60- Matthews
PPS Per 60-Eichel
PPP Per 60- Eichel

Goals PG- Matthews
Assists PG- Eichel
Points Per Game-Eichel


I did this with headache I don’t think I made an error but if I did let me know , as of quanthockey (pa before the leafs sens game but I can’t think of a category that would change m)

So that makes Matthews look bad or something?

It looks bad that you keep updating every single point he gets closer like we’re all not paying attention. We are. You don’t need to do this with literally every single bloody point, is his or my point.

ps- refer to work I did above

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Well they aren’t equal. Matthews is and has always been better at every stage of their careers. Thus, he gets paid more.

Only player I take over Matthews is McDavid. Period. People will bring up Mackinnon, but Matthews is far beyond where Mackinnon was in his 4th NHL season. I’m excited to see where he’ll be in 3 years.

Haha, I just posted that eichel is not only producing more points this season in less games but he’s also doing it per sixty better. He’s leading Matthews in most of the stats, go ahead and look. No one probably cares other then your leaf buddies that have flocked together in here to make each other feel better after a game vs Ottawa that you would only take mackinnon over eichel.

Eichel has already more points right now then Matthews has ever had in his career and including this year has had more points for three straight seasons. I just did the work above, not only does the eye test show or but he’s doing it at per 60 in all situations points wise and total points, with worse players.