Prospect Info: Eeli Tolvanen

[GoldOnGold]

I'd disagree. Compared to the ice time they get, they actually on par. RyJo, 63rd in points for centers, 63rd in ice time. Forsberg, 19th in points for left wingers, 27th in ice time, Arvidsson 40th in ice time, 49th in points, 40thin in ice time.
Here's one that hurts. Craig Smith, 25th in goals for rw, 67th in ice time.

If you break the ice time even further by positions. Arvy was 51st in ES time on ice, Forsberg ES was 27th, Johansen 81st.

We have long spread ice-time around on this team, that is for sure.

 

[OldFan]

I'd disagree. Compared to the ice time they get, they actually on par. RyJo, 63rd in points for centers, 63rd in ice time. Forsberg, 19th in points for left wingers, 27th in ice time, Arvidsson 40th in ice time, 49th in points, 40thin in ice time.
Here's one that hurts. Craig Smith, 25th in goals for rw, 67th in ice time.

If you break the ice time even further by positions. Arvy was 51st in ES time on ice, Forsberg ES was 27th, Johansen 81st.

I’ll agree that Forsberg is pretty good and Ardvisson can be when injury free. But Johansen should not be 63rd in points and ice time. He controls his ice time by his effort. And for the last couple of years Preds did not know who their 2nd line was.
I guess I feel Preds top line just underperforms. They’re better than they perform.

 

[triggrman]

I’ll agree that Forsberg is pretty good and Ardvisson can be when injury free. But Johansen should not be 63rd in points and ice time. He controls his ice time by his effort. And for the last couple of years Preds did not know who their 2nd line was.
I guess I feel Preds top line just underperforms. They’re better than they perform.

But he doesn't control his ice time through effort, ice time is rolled on this team, always has.

 

[OldFan]

But he doesn't control his ice time through effort, ice time is rolled on this team, always has.

He plays good enough, his ice time goes up. Teams don’t let great players sit. Hard for Forsberg to be 27th winger with a 63rd center. I don’t question the stats; just saying it makes it hard for Forsberg. And that Preds don’t get $8M in effort.

 

[triggrman]

He plays good enough, his ice time goes up. Teams don’t let great players sit. Hard for Forsberg to be 27th winger with a 63rd center. I don’t question the stats; just saying it makes it hard for Forsberg. And that Preds don’t get $8M in effort.

show me where anytime in our history this was true and I’ll concede

 

[OldFan]

show me where anytime in our history this was true and I’ll concede

If you’re talking about stats, I don’t have any. I don’t do much stat work.
But I’ve got eyes and have seen him play.
But really I guess it goes to my disappointment in him. I was so excited when we got him and he could be a star. Or at least I think so, but....

 

[triggrman]

Did your eyes tell you that Arnott was lazy? He and Trotz did not get along, mostly because Arnott didn’t like to back check

 

[OldFan]

Did your eyes tell you that Arnott was lazy? He and Trotz did not get along, mostly because Arnott didn’t like to back check

Yes , Arnott was lazy. And I’m sure he and Trotz didn’t mesh well. Trotz was one of those guys with little hockey skills who could not abide players who loafed.
By the way, I believe you said you’ve played. Do players readily recognize lack of effort? And, if I can ask, how do you see Johansen’s effort?

 

[triggrman]

Yes , Arnott was lazy. And I’m sure he and Trotz didn’t mesh well. Trotz was one of those guys with little hockey skills who could not abide players who loafed.
By the way, I believe you said you’ve played. Do players readily recognize lack of effort? And, if I can ask, how do you see Johansen’s effort?

I did play. 35+ years. I don’t think anyone on that level dogs it. Arnott wasn’t lazy he just wanted to score more than his speed allowed so he didn’t back check as deep. Do they go balls to the wall playoff mode all the time? No. No one has that type of intensity all the time. Johansen looks like a lazy skater because of his skating style, much like Legwand. , imho. He’s got that long power stride. One of my closest hockey playing buddies is a tall stride skater. I wish I could skate like them with the that effortless stride.

Have you ever played baseball? You know that guy on the mound that has that long motion through the zone but the ball seems to fire out of their hand like a rocket? And then there’s the guy like Sonny Grey that just looks he’s nothing but power
through the zone? Neither is lazy just different body types different methods.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Arnott was a perimeter player when almost everyone wanted him to be a big power forward in the slot, so he got labeled as lazy. If he was the same exact player in a smaller package, I think he would have taken less crap about it from the fans.

 

[glenngineer]

Forsberg was also drafted Top 10 in the draft.

People's expectations got blown out of proportion for a guy that was drafted at the bottom of the first round.

Not to be nitpicky but he was a top 10 talent that got picked at 11.

 

[Armourboy]

Not to be nitpicky but he was a top 10 talent that got picked at 11.

Still a long way from 30th.

 

[OldFan]

I did play. 35+ years. I don’t think anyone on that level dogs it. Arnott wasn’t lazy he just wanted to score more than his speed allowed so he didn’t back check as deep. Do they go balls to the wall playoff mode all the time? No. No one has that type of intensity all the time. Johansen looks like a lazy skater because of his skating style, much like Legwand. , imho. He’s got that long power stride. One of my closest hockey playing buddies is a tall stride skater. I wish I could skate like them with the that effortless stride.

Have you ever played baseball? You know that guy on the mound that has that long motion through the zone but the ball seems to fire out of their hand like a rocket? And then there’s the guy like Sonny Grey that just looks he’s nothing but power
through the zone? Neither is lazy just different body types different methods.

Thanks for that info.
I still believe that the major goal today in the NHL for many players is the “big career contract”. Once some players achieve that they relax(maybe that’s a better word) and don’t play like they once did. I think Johansen may be one of those players. Just my observation.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Thanks for that info.
I still believe that the major goal today in the NHL for many players is the “big career contract”. Once some players achieve that they relax(maybe that’s a better word) and don’t play like they once did. I think Johansen may be one of those players. Just my observation.

Some players also learn to be more "efficient"... how to do more with less... I guess we all do as we get older and gain experience, to some extent...

 

[OldFan]

Some players also learn to be more "efficient"... how to do more with less... I guess we all do as we get older and gain experience, to some extent...

Yeah, I get that; doing more with less. But I really can understand the getting older part and gaining experience. That’s where I am; old, experienced and trying to do more with less(energy, that is)!
At $8M per isn’t it kinda like doing less with more? Maybe?

 

[Scoresberg]

Tolvanen with a big opportunity tonight.

 

[BigFatCat999]

As a Pats and Red Sox fan I watched how COVID recovery can mess up a player. Give him a month to recover

 

[Scoresberg]

As a Pats and Red Sox fan I watched how COVID recovery can mess up a player. Give him a month to recover

If only it was just COVID that messed him up. The hot streak he had after the draft was the worst thing that could happen to him, it created expectations he should've never had to bear and he has never been able to reach that level again. After all, he was "just" the 3oth pick in the draft and it's pretty rare that guys drafted in that position even end up in the NHL.

 

[BigFatCat999]

If only it was just COVID that messed him up. The hot streak he had after the draft was the worst thing that could happen to him, it created expectations he should've never had to bear and he has never been able to reach that level again. After all, he was "just" the 3oth pick in the draft and it's pretty rare that guys drafted in that position even end up in the NHL.

Scores, I just found out I have MS related sleep apnea. Along with the Asperger's, sarcasm goes right over my head. If this is sarcasm, isn't it a sad state of affairs that it's the only for of mass communication we have?

 

[Scoresberg]

Scores, I just found out I have MS related sleep apnea. Along with the Asperger's, sarcasm goes right over my head. If this is sarcasm, isn't it a sad state of affairs that it's the only for of mass communication we have?

It was not sarcasm. 30th pick often doesn't make it to the NHL and Tolvanen is not exception. He might've looked like one 3 years ago but he has regressed since and looking him now I'm even more certain that it was just a hot streak, nothing more.

 

[BigFatCat999]

It was not sarcasm. 30th pick often doesn't make it to the NHL and Tolvanen is not exception. He might've looked like one 3 years ago but he has regressed since and looking him now I'm even more certain that it was just a hot streak, nothing more.

I'm a zig when everyone zags guy. Put in Tolvanen and see. If he needs out put in Tomassino for 9 games. If that fails, call TBJ about Stamkos, I am quite serious, or another wing. OR option 2, wait it out and try for a rebuild.

But back to thread. I'm reading him as a 40-50 pts guy. He's streaky goal wise....which is common for goal scorers. His streaks happen at the end of the season which tells me he can pull a team towards the playoffs. If he is more of a playmaker then he will fuel Duchene and RW TBNL which is cool with me because we know Duchene can be a goal scorer.

20-21 is going to be a weird year, let's wait it out.

 

[Scoresberg]

I'm a zig when everyone zags guy. Put in Tolvanen and see. If he needs out put in Tomassino for 9 games. If that fails, call TBJ about Stamkos, I am quite serious, or another wing. OR option 2, wait it out and try for a rebuild.

But back to thread. I'm reading him as a 40-50 pts guy. He's streaky goal wise....which is common for goal scorers. His streaks happen at the end of the season which tells me he can pull a team towards the playoffs. If he is more of a playmaker then he will fuel Duchene and RW TBNL which is cool with me because we know Duchene can be a goal scorer.

20-21 is going to be a weird year, let's wait it out.

To each their own for sure. Never say never.

 

[Scoresberg]

Tolvanen a healthy scratch tonight.

 

[PredsV82]

Tolvanen a healthy scratch tonight.

Is that former Pred Anders Lindback in goal?

 

[Scoresberg]

Is that former Pred Anders Lindback in goal?

It is. The former Pred Legend.