Blue Jays Discussion: Edwin, Donaldson, Saunders, Sanchez, Estrada to the ASG

[frost king]

Yet here was a huge boost in attendance the last half of the 2015 season that was not reflected in the 2016 budget. I'll be very surprised if it's increased in 2017

They used the fall of the Cdn $ , as an excuse not to raise the salary budget.

 

[hockeywiz542]

what’s it like working with a much larger payroll?

Shapiro: I think the payroll piece has not really factored in yet, but the support piece has been [eye-opening]. The point of differentiation for me that was most obvious was game 2 [of the regular season]. Everybody here was telling me, ‘you need to see opening day here.’ i’m like, ‘hey, i’ve been through that. Opening day is a celebration in cleveland.’ and then game 2, because it’s 37 degrees out and there’s 10,000 people in the stands. Well, we were close to sold out game 2 here, and game 3. And then, the other one was the raptors had a big playoff game and they were 200 yards away and there was not only 20,000 people in the arena there, there was 3,000 people outside the arena and we had 35,000 here. The depth of the market, i think, has been what has been more of a difference to me. As far as the money goes, we have our own set of differences here. We have the exchange rate that diminishes a lot of it. There’s other challenges. Obviously, in our division, it’s not that different from the indians. We play against teams that have, not double our resources, but close to double our resources. So, there’s still a significant challenge. Not to ever complain, because i think the upside of this market is just remarkable. If you could build a sustainable winner here, it’s just the number of population, the fact that we’re the team for the entire country, the density near the ballpark of the population, it’s just remarkable.

what was it like to have the jose bautista contract situation come up like it did?

Shapiro: I was telling guys,’ listen, i’ve been through players in walk years before.’ we had that with a lot of different players in cleveland. Every player is his own person. Every player is an individual. You’ve got to deal with every situation. But, spring training is a time where the focal point goes on contracts, because the games don’t count and you have to write every single day, and there’s not many things to write about. You can’t write about guys losing weight every day, so inevitably it turns to contracts. You had to expect that coming in, that we were going to have a lot of focus there. We have eight free agents at the end of the year. It’s a remarkable situation. It’s a situation that i didn’t walk into blindly. We knew. There’s challenges here. Solving those challenges, if it’s not fun to you, if you don’t enjoy that, you’re probably in the wrong business.

Has the fan reception been better since you first took over?

Shapiro: I think there was no games being played. Everything ended. People were kind of like shocked at how it ended and i was the only one standing. So, i got a lot of that directed at me. Other than the fact that that wasn’t what you expect when you make a decision to leave a place and come someplace, again, i’ve been through plenty of criticism over a career. You’ve been there, man. I mean, robbie alomar. I’ve been through trading colon. I’ve been through that stuff before. It’s just, i didn’t expect it this time. So, it was a little weird. And, the second we started playing in spring training, the focus went back on the team and playing baseball. The front office guy shouldn’t be a focal point. That was kind of my point coming in here. It shouldn’t be about a front office guy. If you’re running an organization well, it’s not about one guy — ever. One guy doesn’t make decisions. One guy shouldn’t be the lightning rod. It should be about an organization.

 

[theaub]

ctrl+f 'sustainable'

1 result found

fml

 

[Discoverer]

ctrl+f 'sustainable'

1 result found

fml

How is that a bad thing?

 

[zeke]

because it's a built in excuse for not making bold moves.

I'd prefer that "winning" was a priority over "sustainability".

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I don't buy that the Yankees and Red Sox have "...close to double our resources."

 

[Discoverer]

because it's a built in excuse for not making bold moves.

I'd prefer that "winning" was a priority over "sustainability".

He's not saying anything about this year or about what the organization's 2016 goals are; he's talking about what they want to do going forward, and his goal of sustainability is the same as literally every team in every sport.

There are a handful of people who are going to find the negative in everything Shapiro says and does, so this kind of thing shouldn't really surprise, and yet I constantly find it hard to believe that people actually look at things this way.

 

[Woodman19]

It's funny the people who only care about "winning" and not sustainable winning are the sane ones who ***** about Syndergaard and D'Arnaud for Dickey.

 

[hoglund]

It's funny the people who only care about "winning" and not sustainable winning are the sane ones who ***** about Syndergaard and D'Arnaud for Dickey.

Some people just like to complain, it's a no win situation, they can never be happy, it's sad, but can't be fixed.

 

[zeke]

He's not saying anything about this year or about what the organization's 2016 goals are; he's talking about what they want to do going forward, and his goal of sustainability is the same as literally every team in every sport.

There are a handful of people who are going to find the negative in everything Shapiro says and does, so this kind of thing shouldn't really surprise, and yet I constantly find it hard to believe that people actually look at things this way.

Shapiro clearly prioritizes sustainability and risk management above all else. He clearly thinks that is the best way to achieve success.

He may be right, but I don't agree.

 

[metafour]

Interesting to see the Jays leading the AL in average attendance and yet the ownership still treat the budget as a middling AL team would. For sure they don't have some massive TV contract from an outside source like other clubs because their numbers are buried throughout the whole Rogers media/data organization. No way this team is losing money

Its interesting how you equate making logical, forward-thinking baseball decisions to "treating the budget as a middling AL team would". The amount of money that you are making should not all of a sudden advocate making stupid baseball decisions, ever.

 

[metafour]

Yet here was a huge boost in attendance the last half of the 2015 season that was not reflected in the 2016 budget.

Why should it have, honestly? One half season of boosted attendance warrants a complete overhaul of your budget? Smart business doesn't operate like that.

 

[Discoverer]

Shapiro clearly prioritizes sustainability and risk management above all else. He clearly thinks that is the best way to achieve success.

He may be right, but I don't agree.

Again, it's the goal of every single team in professional sports.

And, based on his history, it hasn't prevented him from adding when his team is in contention at the deadline, so I don't get why people find it concerning at all.

 

[Discoverer]

Why should it have, honestly? One half season of boosted attendance warrants a complete overhaul of your budget? Smart business doesn't operate like that.

Exactly. I don't like it, but I get it. I was extremely doubtful that fans would come out prior to the trade deadline, and I assume ownership was as well.

It's been amazing to see the response from the fans, and I'm hopeful that it gives ownership the incentive to invest more into the team going forward.

 

[Kurtz]

EE receives a one game suspension for bumping into that ******* of an ump.

 

[metafour]

And, based on his history, it hasn't prevented him from adding when his team is in contention at the deadline, so I don't get why people find it concerning at all.

They were clearly practicing risk management when they signed Michael Bourn and Nick Swisher for ~$100 mill in an attempt to bolster their playoff-caliber team in 2013...

 

[BlueForever]

Looks like the Jays are back where they should be with their offence.

2nd in MLB with 128 HR's without Tulo and Bautista for long stretches.

5th in MLB in overall runs.

6th in MLB in RBI's

Their pitching is still going strong.

I think this series against KC will go a long way in moving us on the way up in the standings. Firmly secure the Wild card spot. From there we can then focus on overtaking Baltimore.

Like the Red Sox, the Orioles will come back down to earth. Their pitching is atrocious and will catch up to them.

Things are looking good Blue Jay fans.

 

[TootooTrain]

Grilli working out better than anticipated. I knew he had some strikeout potential, but assumed his control and feel was degrading to the point of no return. Seems like getting back with Martin has reignited him. 2.31era 1.97fip 16.2so/9.

 

[Discoverer]

Grilli working out better than anticipated. I knew he had some strikeout potential, but assumed his control and feel was degrading to the point of no return. Seems like getting back with Martin has reignited him. 2.31era 1.97fip 16.2so/9.

It seems strange that the Braves basically gave him away for nothing based on 17 innings this year. He's ranged between "good" and "outstanding" out of the pen for the last decade and was in the "outstanding" category just last year. In the Braves situation, you would think they would just hang onto him for a bit and see if he can turn things back around.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Looks like the Jays are back where they should be with their offence.

2nd in MLB with 128 HR's without Tulo and Bautista for long stretches.

5th in MLB in overall runs.

6th in MLB in RBI's

Their pitching is still going strong.

I think this series against KC will go a long way in moving us on the way up in the standings. Firmly secure the Wild card spot. From there we can then focus on overtaking Baltimore.

Like the Red Sox, the Orioles will come back down to earth. Their pitching is atrocious and will catch up to them.

Things are looking good Blue Jay fans.

Firmly secure a wild card spot? There are 6 teams within 1 game of the wildcard so this idea of firmly securing a wild card spot is a myth especially with 78+ games left.

 

[zeke]

Again, it's the goal of every single team in professional sports.

A goal, not THE goal.

 

[zeke]

They were clearly practicing risk management when they signed Michael Bourn and Nick Swisher for ~$100 mill in an attempt to bolster their playoff-caliber team in 2013...

yes, spending their money on 2nd/3rd tier analytics darlings like bourn and swisher was absolutely that.

as it turns out, the risk management approach didn't manage risk as well as they hoped.

 

[zeke]

Why should it have, honestly? One half season of boosted attendance warrants a complete overhaul of your budget? Smart business doesn't operate like that.

jays fans have always shown up when the team invests a serious amount. and Toronto has now passed chicago in market size.

it's up them whether they want the fans to continue showing up.

 

[Discoverer]

A goal, not THE goal.

And where in that article does he refer to it as "the goal"? He's speculating on how big consistent success would be in Toronto. And he's 100% right.

 

[Discoverer]

yes, spending their money on 2nd/3rd tier analytics darlings like bourn and swisher was absolutely that.

as it turns out, the risk management approach didn't manage risk as well as they hoped.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/2013-top-50-free-agents-with-predictions-1.html

You've been down this road before, and I assume I'm not alone in the struggle to see how the #3 and #6 ranked free agents of 2013 qualify as "2nd/3rd tier".