Elks: Edmonton Eskimos 2020

[Drivesaitl]

Did you all take the survey?

Survey

Just took it now, thanks for linking it.

 

[Messrules11]

It’ll be a sad day when I can’t say I’m watching the Eskies.

 

[doulos]

Did you all take the survey?

Survey

Sure did.

 

[SK13]

As someone of an Irish background who cannot walk into a grocery store without seeing a Leprechaun, or go a week without someone joking about Irish people loving to drink / fight, I don't understand why everyone is so sensitive.

As someone who LOVES the CFL, I would keep the Eskimo name.

I'm not going to diminish the violent alcoholic Irish stereotype, but you can't fairly compare these experiences with the word Eskimo.

Imagine learning about a (not too distant) history where you are colonized and your land is stripped away by an invading people. They were the victim in a genocide. And the people who killed your people and took their land decided (because they couldn't be arsed to learn better) to label your people by some word they heard them say.

It's not the N word. Not everyone in the Inuit community thinks of it as a slur at all. But some are troubled enough by the history of the word that can fairly argue it shouldn't be commercialized and branded for profit in 2020. Considering the only argument for keeping it is "f*** off I like that name", I don't think there's very good cause to resist this change.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

The problem as I see it is not that fans wouldn't like to attend (as you said), but the social distancing issue could be with us for another 2-3 years until the virus dies out. I do not have any faith in them finding a vacine, so our world may need to have a serious reset. I don't even see an NHL season next year.

I agree that a big societal reset is very possible (that might be why the whole Covid thing got blown up in the first place), but if that's the case every sport is going to fundamentally change, not just the CFL.

tbh I stopped going to games when Reilly was traded. Haven't been to more than a couple since. Wasn't just Reilly either, the Esks got rid of most of their favorite players, and lost several others after the GC win. Its been hard to cheer for the club and the revolving door the last several seasons.

The CFL increasingly has been a farm league and most players that are good, that you like, are gone unless they are marquee paid. I'd honestly have trouble listing a dozen current Eskimos players right now. Its harder to relate to the product when you can't relate to the players playing for it.

I didn't have faith in how the team was being run on the field or off of it and my patronage just stopped. Been cheering for the Eskimos since the 60's and now theres games I don't even watch. I mean I watch most eskimos games, but formerly it was a rarity to miss any.

Combine this kind of erosion of fandom with Covid-19 and its a real problem for the Eskimos. Lets remember our attendance was taking a severe nosedive before Covid 19.

As you say, you still watch most games. So you're still invested. Covid didn't end your fandom (at least not yet). Attendance may not be what it once was, but the TV contract is much bigger than it used to be too. People are watching Korean baseball and Bundesliga, I'm pretty confident they will watch the CFL, assuming they were doing so before all the upheaval took place.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

As far as attendance young single people might attend the games less but families with young children might go and enjoy the game more if the CFL product didint suck so much. Everything from poor talent to horrible reffing have been ruining this game for over a decade. Once the CFL legends retired there was no one coming in to replace that quality of talent. The TV presentation and experience is better because i can shut off the tv when i am seeing the team once again blow it. Would rather not waste money and time watching garbage. Make your product better.

 

[joestevens29]

All of the games
A few
None

What kind options are that for "how many games do you watch on TV".

 

[Paperbagofglory]

All of the games
A few
None

What kind options are that for "how many games do you watch on TV".

Its the CFL, nobody is insane enough to watch an entire season of it.

 

[joestevens29]

It’ll be a sad day when I can’t say I’m watching the Eskies.

Why can't you say it? I'm sure a lot of diehards are going to continue to say it.

Funny thing as I was looking up Eskies and came accross the below. Funny thing is the name of this dog was already changed once due to anti-german sentiment. Should they rename it again because apparently it hurts some people's feelings?
American Eskimo Dog - Wikipedia

 

[doulos]

I'm not going to diminish the violent alcoholic Irish stereotype, but you can't fairly compare these experiences with the word Eskimo.

Imagine learning about a (not too distant) history where you are colonized and your land is stripped away by an invading people. They were the victim in a genocide. And the people who killed your people and took their land decided (because they couldn't be arsed to learn better) to label your people by some word they heard them say.

It's not the N word. Not everyone in the Inuit community thinks of it as a slur at all. But some are troubled enough by the history of the word that can fairly argue it shouldn't be commercialized and branded for profit in 2020. Considering the only argument for keeping it is "f*** off I like that name", I don't think there's very good cause to resist this change.

Well said.

 

[joestevens29]

I'm not going to diminish the violent alcoholic Irish stereotype, but you can't fairly compare these experiences with the word Eskimo.

Imagine learning about a (not too distant) history where you are colonized and your land is stripped away by an invading people. They were the victim in a genocide. And the people who killed your people and took their land decided (because they couldn't be arsed to learn better) to label your people by some word they heard them say.

It's not the N word. Not everyone in the Inuit community thinks of it as a slur at all. But some are troubled enough by the history of the word that can fairly argue it shouldn't be commercialized and branded for profit in 2020. Considering the only argument for keeping it is "f*** off I like that name", I don't think there's very good cause to resist this change.

That's not the only argument. The other argument is to embrace the name and help the Inuit people out that are still struggling across this country.

Someone mentioned it early in the thread about bringing the issues front and center while keeping the name, but at the same time if we get rid of it the issues will just be forgotten.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

I'm not going to diminish the violent alcoholic Irish stereotype, but you can't fairly compare these experiences with the word Eskimo.

Imagine learning about a (not too distant) history where you are colonized and your land is stripped away by an invading people. They were the victim in a genocide. And the people who killed your people and took their land decided (because they couldn't be arsed to learn better) to label your people by some word they heard them say.

It's not the N word. Not everyone in the Inuit community thinks of it as a slur at all. But some are troubled enough by the history of the word that can fairly argue it shouldn't be commercialized and branded for profit in 2020. Considering the only argument for keeping it is "f*** off I like that name", I don't think there's very good cause to resist this change.

Everything you said could be applied to Irish history. The only difference is the Irish are treated way better now and finally seen as European. I mean the 40s and 50s were not that long ago and big American cities had for hire signs that said No Italians or Irish. This stereotype that all white people somehow got along and didint fight and conquer each others land is a recency bias. Look up the Potato famine if you think Irish peole have nothing to complain about. They were the white people you would discriminate against when you wanted to feel better about yourself because people of color were not around to take your frustrations out at.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Everything you said could be applied to Irish history. The only difference is the Irish are treated way better now and finally seen as European. I mean the 40s and 50s were not that long ago and big American cities had for hire signs that said No Italians or Irish. This stereotype that all white people somehow got along and didint fight and conquer each others land is a recency bias. Look up the Potato famine if you think Irish peole have nothing to complain about. They were the white people you would discriminate against when you wanted to feel better about yourself because people of color were not around to take your frustrations out at.

The Irish in the states were referred to as "white n-words" and also "negroes turned inside out". Hell they sometimes called black people smoked Irish.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm not going to diminish the violent alcoholic Irish stereotype, but you can't fairly compare these experiences with the word Eskimo.

Imagine learning about a (not too distant) history where you are colonized and your land is stripped away by an invading people. They were the victim in a genocide. And the people who killed your people and took their land decided (because they couldn't be arsed to learn better) to label your people by some word they heard them say.

It's not the N word. Not everyone in the Inuit community thinks of it as a slur at all. But some are troubled enough by the history of the word that can fairly argue it shouldn't be commercialized and branded for profit in 2020. Considering the only argument for keeping it is "f*** off I like that name", I don't think there's very good cause to resist this change.

Yeah its hard to compare the two. 1M Irish died in the potato famine and related causes. Another Million became blight refugees and experienced hardship and persecution nearly everywhere they went.
Most of the rest were starving and destitute. A scale of disaster on a whole other level than Inuit lives lost. The pop density of the Arctic north was low in anycase as its harsh unforgivable conditions and that environment is incapable of affording for more people. So we're talking about 2k deaths arguably due to something you would term genocide. More were wiped out by disease. Initially, and then in with the Spanish Flu.

"Land striped away by invading people" This is a specious argument, and it ignores human history, it ignores all context of human recorded history of vanquished and victor and blames the human imperative for conquest and expanding land for survival.

Wheres the blame then for Inuit people only being allowed to live in the North for centuries and "genocide" occurring due to other war like tribes/indigenous nations of the south that would force them out to the unforgiving north. This too is a story of conquest and resulted in huge Inuit losses through time. It led to the extinction (near) of a people. It led to inuit themselves having to adopt to such severe methods as killing children, aged, and babies with any notable disease. All this occurring before white man came.

You may want to look a little further too. How about the Thule people eradicating and displacing the more peaceful Dorset people in worse acts of displacement and violence. The Thule then going on to massacre and displace Viking settlements of thousands from such regions as Greenland. Those would be similar acts of "genocide" especially involving the Dorset.


In fact one has to twist historical narrative quite a lot to come up with your post and vitriol which is basically blaming the act of conquest, which the vast majority of human tribes, nations, ethnicities have involved in throughout recorded history. Imagine learning all that....

 

[joestevens29]

Are we allowed to say Irish? I really don't know anymore

 

[ORRFForever]

I'm not going to diminish the violent alcoholic Irish stereotype, but you can't fairly compare these experiences with the word Eskimo.

Imagine learning about a (not too distant) history where you are colonized and your land is stripped away by an invading people. They were the victim in a genocide. And the people who killed your people and took their land decided (because they couldn't be arsed to learn better) to label your people by some word they heard them say.

It's not the N word. Not everyone in the Inuit community thinks of it as a slur at all. But some are troubled enough by the history of the word that can fairly argue it shouldn't be commercialized and branded for profit in 2020. Considering the only argument for keeping it is "f*** off I like that name", I don't think there's very good cause to resist this change.

You obviously don't know the history of the Irish people. You do realize England literally tried to starve the Irish off the face of the earth for 5 straight years, right? It killed MILLIONS.

There have been many cases in history (including in the U.S.) where the Irish were treated horribly and killed in huge numbers.

But, do you hear me asking for the Fighting Irish or the Celtic emblem or every Leprechaun removed from the face of the earth? Nah. I'm a big boy.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You obviously don't know the history of the Irish people. You do realize England literally tried to starve the Irish off the face of the earth for 5 straight years, right?

There have been many cases in history (including in the U.S.) where the Irish were treated horribly.

Yep.

I think they need to re-evaluate the history curriculum taught in schools. Its frankly amazing in the internet age of knowledge at your fingertips that such ignorance of Irish hardship, death, famine, massive displacement could even exist.

But this current form of education, in the reconciliation era, it feeds a specific mindset. It ignores as well that many more inuit exist today than did prior to colonial times. So Genocide too, is an odd framework. Unless one is speaking of the Dorset people, killed and eradicated largely by Thule peoples.

The interesting thing is that most of what we think of in terms of Eskimo people, folklore, everything from the Igloo to Inukshuk is appropriated from the now extinct Dorset culture, conquered by the Thule people, who are complaining about their own conquest today. That perspective, perhaps, needs to be understood.

Wheres the reconciliation to the extinct Dorset people. Oh, current Inuit conveniently blame the Dorset extinction on disease introduced by colonialization. Even though the Dorset peoples, culture, way of live was really snuffed out centuries before. Inconvenient truth.

 

[ORRFForever]

Yep.

I think they need to re-evaluate the history curriculum taught in schools. Its frankly amazing in the internet age of knowledge at your fingertips that such ignorance of Irish hardship, death, famine, massive displacement could even exist.

But this current form of education, in the reconciliation era, it feeds a specific mindset. It ignores as well that many more inuit exist today than did prior to colonial times. So Genocide too, is an odd framework. Unless one is speaking of the Dorset people, killed and eradicated largely by Thule peoples.

The interesting thing is that most of what we think of in terms of Eskimo people, folklore, everything from the Igloo to Inukshuk is appropriated from the now extinct Dorset culture, conquered by the Thule people, who are complaining about their own conquest today. That perspective, perhaps, needs to be understood.

That's fair.

I just feel people are too sensitive in 2020.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That's fair.

I just feel people are too sensitive in 2020.

Is it sensitivity or revamped education, media, learning, indoctrination, what people are being told. I mean SK13 evokes the indoctrination that Millions today currently, and myopically have. I don't think its sensitivity as much as co-opted curriculum and what people are essentially being taught today, in or out of school. SK13 wrote that not even aware it could be wrong. Any type of propaganda is dangerous and a lot of it is going on today and should be dispelled.

 

[doulos]

That's fair.

I just feel people are too sensitive in 2020.

I feel people are finally becoming to sensitive to things that they should have been for decades. It's about time.

 

[ORRFForever]

Is it sensitivity or revamped education, media, learning, indoctrination, what people are being told. I mean SK13 evokes the indoctrination that Millions today currently, and myopically have. I don't think its sensitivity as much as co-opted curriculum and what people are essentially being taught today, in or out of school. SK13 wrote that not even aware it could be wrong. Any type of propaganda is dangerous and a lot of it is going on today and should be dispelled.

As Tony Soprano always said, "Whatever happened to the strong silent type?"

 

[ORRFForever]

I feel people are finally becoming to sensitive to things that they should have been for decades. It's about time.

People are too sensitive. Everyone can be a victim if they choose... and in 2020, that's what many, many, many people choose. Not me!

 

[doulos]

People are too sensitive. Everyone can be a victim if they choose... and in 2020, that's what many, many, many people choose. Not me!

Fair enough. That's a stance you are welcome to take. Others are choosing differently. And it's going to result in changes in society. I am thankful for it.

 

[ORRFForever]

Fair enough. That's a stance you are welcome to take. Others are choosing differently. And it's going to result in changes in society. I am thankful for it.

That's fair.

 

[Drivesaitl]

As Tony Soprano always said, "Whatever happened to the strong silent type?"

Tony wasn't that silent either and I'm sure not, haha.

Its rarely been more important to have voice and express counter to what is mob prevailing current thought. Its interesting in present day that the mob is thought of as the voice of reason. The mob knows anger, distrust, reactivity, suspicion. the mob knows how to narrate tapestry of victim and blame. Propaganda of any type is divisive and harmful.