Elks: Edmonton Eskimos 2018 v2

[iCanada]

Why would authorities charge you so long as you had the right permit to face a 50/50 draw with a personally co-sponsored extra? What grounds would there be? What grounds would casinos have if you paid the same permit costs they do?


And class action lawsuit? Lol. That'd be like sueing Honda because the new civic advertised 50 mpg and you're getting 80.

 

[MoneyGuy]

I can believe Tillman made a bad deal, but it was so bad, how could people not question it? and offensive? seriously?

you can say it's a ridiculous thought, but it offensive?

I was more referring to the allegation that the team breaks lottery laws.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Is it fraud though? You'd just need a different permit than your standard for 50/50s. Not a big deal at all imo. Charity is getting their money, tax man is getting their money...

Lottery winnings aren’t taxable.

 

[iCanada]

Lottery winnings aren’t taxable.

Sure they are. Just the winner isn't paying the tax.

Tax man always gets his cut.

All I'm saying is the esks fronting some money on the 50/50 wouldn't necessarily be them subverting or breaking laws. Just depends on their paperwork.

 

[MoontoScott]

All of this "questioning" of the results was quite predictable. As the stakes get higher and higher, gold fever breaks out and you get Treasure of the Sierra Madre all over again.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Sure they are. Just the winner isn't paying the tax.

Tax man always gets his cut.

No he doesn’t. Lottery winnings aren’t taxable.

 

[MoontoScott]

No he doesn’t. Lottery winnings aren’t taxable.

I think what he means is that the people who buy the lottery tickets are buying with after-tax dollars.

Plus, I think that some lottery money is directed towards the government? The winner doesn't take all of the pot- just the designated value that the lottery organization prescribes? The rest goes to Ottawa or Provincial capitals.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Sure they are. Just the winner isn't paying the tax.

Tax man always gets his cut.

All I'm saying is the esks fronting some money on the 50/50 wouldn't necessarily be them subverting or breaking laws. Just depends on their paperwork.

Lottery winnings aren't taxed in Canada.

 

[WaitingForUser]

Lottery winnings aren't taxed in Canada.

This is partially right. Lottery winnings are not taxed in Canada initially. However if the winnings are your sole source of income you must pay taxes on them. The best thing to do is either start a business or get a part time job then the govt can’t touch you.

 

[joestevens29]

I think what he means is that the people who buy the lottery tickets are buying with after-tax dollars.

Plus, I think that some lottery money is directed towards the government? The winner doesn't take all of the pot- just the designated value that the lottery organization prescribes? The rest goes to Ottawa or Provincial capitals.

Nothing hoes to the governments on 50-50 draws.

 

[Cloned]

Nothing hoes to the governments on 50-50 draws.

 

[guymez]

Nice hoe.

 

[I am the Liquor]

At least its a clean hoe, and not a dirty, stinky, hoe.

 

[iCanada]

No he doesn’t. Lottery winnings aren’t taxable.

The winnings themselves aren't taxable, but the whole rest of the process is. Say I buy a 15 dollar lotto-max ticket and 1 million tickets are sold. That's a total pot of $15,000,000.00.

Out of that 15 mil pot, 5to8% of that is going to the retailer, 10to15% is going to the lotto company, and then 15to20% of that is going to the AGLC, then around 20% is going to the CGA. Around a third of that pot is going straight to the government; the lottery winnings pot will end up around 7.5 million or so.

If the winnings were taxable, you're taking home 12 million, then paying 35% of that straight to the government, and then taking around 7.5 million to the bank. Lotteries are certainly taxed, you just don't see it as the winner. You don't think the Canadian government just decided to let around a billion a year in personal incomes go un-taxed, did ya? In fact this method is actually safer for the government; less likely Joe Smoe gets a 12 mil payday, blows 10 million of it instantly without any fiscal planning, and now owes the government a 35% tax bill of 4 million that he'll never be able to sniff at making in the rest of his life. This obviously leaves the Gov't holding the bag, but also requires them to prosecute the tax evasion to maintain their authority. Not to mention, all the money going into the pot is post tax from your paycheck regardless.

Even 50/50's are taxed slightly this manner, although at a significantly discounted rate given the small scale and general charitable intent. You certainly require permits to run 50/50 draws just like all gambling and gaming's of any kind; while the pot from the 50/50 itself does not get taxed, whomever is applying for the licence to run the draw pays for a permit based on a reasonably expected ticket sale value; it typically ends up looking more like 50/40to45/5to10. The Tax Man always gets his cut, which is (imo) good: educate them kids, keep the potentially dirty industry well regulated and clean, build us all infrastructure, provide me and those I care about who can't care for themselves with social programs and a safety net.

 

[Gord]

I'm sure the 50/50 is run fairly, and I can't see how it would be illegal for the esks to seed the pot if they chose to.

If I had to guess as to the reason it wasn't claimed, is someone had a ticket and no proper rain gear, so their ticket was destroyed by the rain soaking into their clothes.
or they just forgot to check.

 

[Gord]

Please remember the next home game is tackle hunger night.

 

[Stoneman89]

The winnings themselves aren't taxable, but the whole rest of the process is. Say I buy a 15 dollar lotto-max ticket and 1 million tickets are sold. That's a total pot of $15,000,000.00.

Out of that 15 mil pot, 5to8% of that is going to the retailer, 10to15% is going to the lotto company, and then 15to20% of that is going to the AGLC, then around 20% is going to the CGA. Around a third of that pot is going straight to the government; the lottery winnings pot will end up around 7.5 million or so.

If the winnings were taxable, you're taking home 12 million, then paying 35% of that straight to the government, and then taking around 7.5 million to the bank. Lotteries are certainly taxed, you just don't see it as the winner. You don't think the Canadian government just decided to let around a billion a year in personal incomes go un-taxed, did ya? In fact this method is actually safer for the government; less likely Joe Smoe gets a 12 mil payday, blows 10 million of it instantly without any fiscal planning, and now owes the government a 35% tax bill of 4 million that he'll never be able to sniff at making in the rest of his life. This obviously leaves the Gov't holding the bag, but also requires them to prosecute the tax evasion to maintain their authority. Not to mention, all the money going into the pot is post tax from your paycheck regardless.

Even 50/50's are taxed slightly this manner, although at a significantly discounted rate given the small scale and general charitable intent. You certainly require permits to run 50/50 draws just like all gambling and gaming's of any kind; while the pot from the 50/50 itself does not get taxed, whomever is applying for the licence to run the draw pays for a permit based on a reasonably expected ticket sale value; it typically ends up looking more like 50/40to45/5to10. The Tax Man always gets his cut, which is (imo) good: educate them kids, keep the potentially dirty industry well regulated and clean, build us all infrastructure, provide me and those I care about who can't care for themselves with social programs and a safety net.

Thanks for the good info. The government does indeed tax the lottery funds as you say, but just at the front end. What is left over is not taxed.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

It's definitely not illegal for the Esks to add extra. What would be illegal is them posting a non-existent phantom winning number to ensure a carry-over and the higher attendance it creates. The fact that this has suddenly happened several times ever since that game a few years ago is what raises my suspicions. That's why I enquired about what sort of oversight is in place. For the record, even though it's greasy, I'm ok with it to help boost attendance. Just don't buy a 50/50 if the next home game is on a Thursday night

 

[MoneyGuy]

The winnings themselves aren't taxable, but the whole rest of the process is. Say I buy a 15 dollar lotto-max ticket and 1 million tickets are sold. That's a total pot of $15,000,000.00.

Out of that 15 mil pot, 5to8% of that is going to the retailer, 10to15% is going to the lotto company, and then 15to20% of that is going to the AGLC, then around 20% is going to the CGA. Around a third of that pot is going straight to the government; the lottery winnings pot will end up around 7.5 million or so.

If the winnings were taxable, you're taking home 12 million, then paying 35% of that straight to the government, and then taking around 7.5 million to the bank. Lotteries are certainly taxed, you just don't see it as the winner. You don't think the Canadian government just decided to let around a billion a year in personal incomes go un-taxed, did ya? In fact this method is actually safer for the government; less likely Joe Smoe gets a 12 mil payday, blows 10 million of it instantly without any fiscal planning, and now owes the government a 35% tax bill of 4 million that he'll never be able to sniff at making in the rest of his life. This obviously leaves the Gov't holding the bag, but also requires them to prosecute the tax evasion to maintain their authority. Not to mention, all the money going into the pot is post tax from your paycheck regardless.

Even 50/50's are taxed slightly this manner, although at a significantly discounted rate given the small scale and general charitable intent. You certainly require permits to run 50/50 draws just like all gambling and gaming's of any kind; while the pot from the 50/50 itself does not get taxed, whomever is applying for the licence to run the draw pays for a permit based on a reasonably expected ticket sale value; it typically ends up looking more like 50/40to45/5to10. The Tax Man always gets his cut, which is (imo) good: educate them kids, keep the potentially dirty industry well regulated and clean, build us all infrastructure, provide me and those I care about who can't care for themselves with social programs and a safety net.

.....

 

[MoneyGuy]

I’ve come to dislike the Riders so much that for the first time I hope the hated Stamps crush them this week. Run up that score.

 

[MoontoScott]

The winnings themselves aren't taxable, but the whole rest of the process is. Say I buy a 15 dollar lotto-max ticket and 1 million tickets are sold. That's a total pot of $15,000,000.00.

Out of that 15 mil pot, 5to8% of that is going to the retailer, 10to15% is going to the lotto company, and then 15to20% of that is going to the AGLC, then around 20% is going to the CGA. Around a third of that pot is going straight to the government; the lottery winnings pot will end up around 7.5 million or so.

If the winnings were taxable, you're taking home 12 million, then paying 35% of that straight to the government, and then taking around 7.5 million to the bank. Lotteries are certainly taxed, you just don't see it as the winner. You don't think the Canadian government just decided to let around a billion a year in personal incomes go un-taxed, did ya? In fact this method is actually safer for the government; less likely Joe Smoe gets a 12 mil payday, blows 10 million of it instantly without any fiscal planning, and now owes the government a 35% tax bill of 4 million that he'll never be able to sniff at making in the rest of his life. This obviously leaves the Gov't holding the bag, but also requires them to prosecute the tax evasion to maintain their authority. Not to mention, all the money going into the pot is post tax from your paycheck regardless.

Even 50/50's are taxed slightly this manner, although at a significantly discounted rate given the small scale and general charitable intent. You certainly require permits to run 50/50 draws just like all gambling and gaming's of any kind; while the pot from the 50/50 itself does not get taxed, whomever is applying for the licence to run the draw pays for a permit based on a reasonably expected ticket sale value; it typically ends up looking more like 50/40to45/5to10. The Tax Man always gets his cut, which is (imo) good: educate them kids, keep the potentially dirty industry well regulated and clean, build us all infrastructure, provide me and those I care about who can't care for themselves with social programs and a safety net.

There is no question that governments around the world have used lotteries as a means to generate revenue and I have no problem with that.

If 10 million tickets are sold at 5 bucks each then the winner does not get 50 million dollars but rather a portion of that which is the designated prize money which in turn is always a fraction of the money invested and never 100%. Part of the 50 million goes to staff costs, organization fees, licencing fees etc. so yes obviously the government has a hand in the up front fees even though downstream the eventual winner does not pay tax on his/her winnings. Governments around the planet like lotteries for this reason and often do their best to promote them, obviously they wouldn't get involved if they didn't get something out of it.

Back to the original question, do you honestly think that the EE are rigging the game? I find this to be very unlikely.

 

[iCanada]

There is no question that governments around the world have used lotteries as a means to generate revenue and I have no problem with that.

If 10 million tickets are sold at 5 bucks each then the winner does not get 50 million dollars but rather a portion of that which is the designated prize money which in turn is always a fraction of the money invested and never 100%. Part of the 50 million goes to staff costs, organization fees, licencing fees etc. so yes obviously the government has a hand in the up front fees even though downstream the eventual winner does not pay tax on his/her winnings. Governments around the planet like lotteries for this reason and often do their best to promote them, obviously they wouldn't get involved if they didn't get something out of it.

Back to the original question, do you honestly think that the EE are rigging the game? I find this to be very unlikely.

No, I don't actually think they are doing that. I just think it's plausibly possible, and not necessarily a bad idea. Mostly pondering out loud.

I do think it'd be better if they just straight up seeded the pot if they wanted to go that route. Marketing would be rough and divisive though.

 

[guymez]

Any word on CJ Gable?

 

[Jet Walters]

Please remember the next home game is tackle hunger night.

What about head shots? Can I head shot hunger instead? Or at least a good spear?

 

[Gord]

What about head shots? Can I head shot hunger instead? Or at least a good spear?

only if you play for the argos.