GDT: ECQF 6 | FLYERS (A) vs. Canadiens (H) | Friday, Aug. 21, 2020 | 7:00 pm ET | Flyers lead series 3-2

[deadhead]

How could we possibly still be doing this?

They had no idea at the time if Taylor Leier or Danick Martel or Roman Lyubimov could work themselves into something. That's the whole point. It's not, "Of course I know better than these people," it's just better than throwing up a white flag. This is the exact same smug horseshit AV threw out there in his introductory PC that got my hackles up.

Oh, I think they had a pretty good idea, at least VdV was a plus PK guy, allowing better players to spend more time at 5x5.
It's not like they don't scout their AHL team, Leier and Martel were grossly undersized without the talent to compensate.
Luby didn't turn out to be the next Raffl.
Sometimes all your options suck, which is why hindsight is 20/20, because you can criticize whatever bad choice is made after the fact.

People crap all over Hagg, but look at Ghost's awful PO performances with two good legs.
So it's not like putting Ghost in is a sure thing, going off his track record when he was a better player.

Thompson sucks worse than they expected, I'm sure they knew he sucked, they also played Frost for 20 games and knew his limitations (and it's not like he went down to the AHL and raised his game like Sanheim, Myers and Farabee in his cameo). Both are bad choices, but the Flyers were playing well with Thompson, so why screw up a good thing until it turns bad?

It's like a baseball manager with a bad bullpen, which gasoline artist do I call on to put out fires?

 

[Audible Velvet]

Assuming they do win this, there’s plenty of concern going into round two. I know it’s premature, but I fear them getting embarrassed.

 

[flyersnorth]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Put G on both powerplay units.

Grant on ANY PP is lunacy.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Oh, I think they had a pretty good idea, at least VdV was a plus PK guy, allowing better players to spend more time at 5x5.
It's not like they don't scout their AHL team, Leier and Martel were grossly undersized without the talent to compensate.
Luby didn't turn out to be the next Raffl.
Sometimes all your options suck, which is why hindsight is 20/20, because you can criticize whatever bad choice is made after the fact.

People crap all over Hagg, but look at Ghost's awful PO performances with two good legs.
So it's not like putting Ghost in is a sure thing, going off his track record when he was a better player.

Thompson sucks worse than they expected, I'm sure they knew he sucked, they also played Frost for 20 games and knew his limitations (and it's not like he went down to the AHL and raised his game like Sanheim, Myers and Farabee in his cameo). Both are bad choices, but the Flyers were playing well with Thompson, so why screw up a good thing until it turns bad?

It's like a baseball manager with a bad bullpen, which gasoline artist do I call on to put out fires?

And sometimes they're wrong like they were about NAK and Hagg or even a Bunnaman and might be about Friedman. That's the entire point.

I don't understand how you can tell me with a straight face that you're sure they knew Nate Thompson sucked when they traded a pick for him and immediately played him in every game for the rest of the Regular Season AND Playoffs. If that's true, you're making me think less of the decision-making process, not more. Everyone makes evaluative mistakes. We should expect and understand that.

*Edit* Thompson's ice time is increasing! That means they know he sucks?!

 

[deadhead]

And sometimes they're wrong like they were about NAK and Hagg or even a Bunnaman and might be about Friedman. That's the entire point.

I don't understand how you can tell me with a straight face that you're sure they knew Nate Thompson sucked when they traded a pick for him and immediately played him in every game for the rest of the Regular Season AND Playoffs. If that's true, you're making me think less of the decision-making process, not more. Everyone makes evaluative mistakes. We should expect and understand that.

There's levels of suckitude.
If AV had confidence in Frost/Bunnaman I think they trade for Grant for depth and that's it.
But Farabee contradicts the "AV won't play young players" mantra (and we had 8 starters under 25 last game).

Now I don't think they saw Thompson playing THIS bad, they were hoping he could hold the fort this year then march off into the sunset. They didn't expect him to start marching prematurely.
Rather, they felt Thompson would do enough on FOs and STs that they could carry him for a playoff round or two.

A lot of these decisions are educated guesses at best, and often about timing, is a young player ready? Does an older player have anything left in the tank? And this year those guesses are tougher due to the weird circumstances.

 

[1865]

It feels like we have too many forwards who you'd mainly be happy in a fourth line role. Thompson, Pitlick, Bunnaman, Grant and to a much lesser extent NAK and Raffl are at best top fourth liners and we're icing them all.

 

[deadhead]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Put G on both powerplay units.

Grant on ANY PP is lunacy.

I agree, not just about Grant, but b/c Giroux is simply much better on the PP than he is at 5x5 these days.
Best and highest use.
Plus, the PP is much easier on the legs than skating up and down the ice.

 

[Striiker]

"He'll hardly play. It won't even make a difference!" They exclaim

"He'll hardly play. It won't even make a difference!" They exclaim





Therefore, Thompson should see 11 mins of 5v5 action

I literally made this back during training camp.

 

[deadhead]

It feels like we have too many forwards who you'd mainly be happy in a fourth line role. Thompson, Pitlick, Bunnaman, Grant and to a much lesser extent NAK and Raffl are at best top fourth liners and we're icing them all.

That's because our third line is on IR. Literally.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

There's levels of suckitude.
If AV had confidence in Frost/Bunnaman I think they trade for Grant for depth and that's it.
But Farabee contradicts the "AV won't play young players" mantra (and we had 8 starters under 25 last game).

Now I don't think they saw Thompson playing THIS bad, they were hoping he could hold the fort this year then march off into the sunset. They didn't expect him to start marching prematurely.
Rather, they felt Thompson would do enough on FOs and STs that they could carry him for a playoff round or two.

A lot of these decisions are educated guesses at best, and often about timing, is a young player ready? Does an older player have anything left in the tank? And this year those guesses are tougher due to the weird circumstances.

So if Thompson is playing below their expectations for him, what reasonable rationale is there behind giving him the 9th most 5v5 TOI/GP among Forwards in the Playoffs behind 3 players who missed at least 1 Game, and his ice time being on the ascent?

 

[Striiker]

Making up dishonest narratives to defend the staff.

A tale as old as time.

Some people just need to take their fat "L" and go sit in the corner for a while.

 

[Les Averman]

As much as I'd love Thompson coming out of the lineup, it just won't happen. I wouldn't be surprised to see them run the same lines but if I had a healthy NAK, I would without a doubt be running a bottom 6 of:
JVR -- Giroux -- Laughts
NAK -- Grant -- Raffl

That's the only way we've got scoring punch all the way down the lineup, which was one of our biggest strengths at the end of the season and round robin. Realistically, I think it's more likely to see Thompson in at 4C with Grant being scratched but can't win them all.

 

[deadhead]

So if Thompson is playing below their expectations for him, what reasonable rationale is there behind giving him the 9th most 5v5 TOI/GP among Forwards in the Playoffs behind 3 players who missed at least 1 Game, and his ice time being on the ascent?

A lot of Thompson's 5x5 time reflects a lot of ST time. When you look at total TOI the pecking order is obvious, and Thompson is getting no more time than the other '4th line' types (NAK is distorted b/c he left a game early due to injury).

I have no problem playing Frost and Ghost over Thompson and Hagg, I just think going off their track records that it's not going to make much difference, we'll be faster and more skilled, but softer against a team that's already beating us up. Ghost is not going to challenge anyone when the Habs crash the crease, Frost will look pretty and get knocked off the puck on a regular basis.

Frost is not going to fix the bottom six, Ghost is not going to fix the PP (which seems to have fixed itself) going off his play the last two seasons on the PP. So the fundamental flaws remain, and we're still going to have to ride Hart.

 

[Stumble40]

Now they get Kotkaneimi back.

it’s bad enough we lost to regular Neimi .

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

What's your honest opinion on Niskanen and Brauny so far?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

A lot of Thompson's 5x5 time reflects a lot of ST time. When you look at total TOI the pecking order is obvious, and Thompson is getting no more time than the other '4th line' types (NAK is distorted b/c he left a game early due to injury).

I have no problem playing Frost and Ghost over Thompson and Hagg, I just think going off their track records that it's not going to make much difference, we'll be faster and more skilled, but softer against a team that's already beating us up. Ghost is not going to challenge anyone when the Habs crash the crease, Frost will look pretty and get knocked off the puck on a regular basis.

Frost is not going to fix the bottom six, Ghost is not going to fix the PP (which seems to have fixed itself) going off his play the last two seasons on the PP. So the fundamental flaws remain, and we're still going to have to ride Hart.

If instead of looking at 5v5, you look at all Even Strengths, he's now in a virtual tie for 8th/9th with Pitlick. One of the group he's behind is Raffl, who has only played 4 Games. If you look at All Strengths, he's in a virtual tie with Pitlick once again, this time for 9th/10th.

So a lot of PP time is to blame for Thompson playing more at 5v5?

Game 1 vs BOS: 4:00 of PP time for the Flyers, Thompson plays 9:24 at 5v5
Game 2 vs WSH: 9:01 of PP time, Thompson plays 10:13
Game 3 vs TB: 4:07 of PP time, Thompson plays 12:34

Game 1 vs MTL: 4:57 of PP time, Thompson plays 10:09
Game 2 vs MTL: 7:04 of PP time, Thompson plays 7:51
Game 3 vs MTL: 11:37 of PP time, Thompson plays 11:07
Game 4 vs MTL: 6:00 of PP time, Thompson plays 13:31
Game 5 vs MTL: 9:54 of PP time, Thompson plays 7:31

I don't see that pattern, do you?

 

[Rebels57]

Assuming they do win this, there’s plenty of concern going into round two. I know it’s premature, but I fear them getting embarrassed.

I think we're better off losing in the 1st.

This way I dont have to watch 4 more games of Thompson & Grant.

We'll get swept by the Isles with those two on the ice half the game.

 

[Petr Svoboda Mullet]

It feels like we have too many forwards who you'd mainly be happy in a fourth line role. Thompson, Pitlick, Bunnaman, Grant and to a much lesser extent NAK and Raffl are at best top fourth liners and we're icing them all.

Too many plugs. Need skill in the line up. NAK, Frost, JVR.

 

[1865]

That's because our third line is on IR. Literally.

Yeh, i suppose. We do have genuine top 9 talent in Frost, JvR and sometimes Farabee sitting however.

 

[WolfOfBroadStreet14]

If NAK is still out and they refuse to put in Frost I’d roll these:

Farabee Coots Jake
JVR Giroux Konecny
Laughton Hayes Raffl
Bunny Thompson/Grant Pitlick

maybe G can spark JVR and Konecny.

Ideally Frost would be in. Also wonder if Friedman slots in instead of Ghost is Niskanen is suspended since they love have having d on their strong side.

 

[Psuhockey]

I think we're better off losing in the 1st.

This way I dont have to watch 4 more games of Thompson & Grant.

We'll get swept by the Isles with those two on the ice half the game.

That’s pessimism on a whole other level.

This team isn’t winning the cup, but Frost, Konecny, Provorov, Myers, Sanheim, NAK and Hart will all benefit from as many playoff games as they can get. Even a guy like Bunnaman too.

 

[JayRosehillMVP]

I don’t need to tell you guys that we were absolutely killing it before we had grant and Thompson. It’s bizarre that they’ve both become locks pretty much since they got here. Two f***ing fourth line centers bringing the team speed down drastically. Rather have frost or bunny lose every face off and be able to keep up

 

[Audible Velvet]

I think we're better off losing in the 1st.

This way I dont have to watch 4 more games of Thompson & Grant.

We'll get swept by the Isles with those two on the ice half the game.

Just imagine Barzal on the ice and AV sticks with the plan of putting the Tater line out against him.

 

[Rebels57]

That’s pessimism on a whole other level.

This team isn’t winning the cup, but Frost, Konecny, Provorov, Myers, Sanheim, NAK and Hart will all benefit from as many playoff games as they can get. Even a guy like Bunnaman too.

I agree, they will benefit. I will suffer though.

 

[Rebels57]

Just imagine Barzal on the ice and AV sticks with the plan of putting the Tater line out against him.

The good news is, Barzal will shatter Thompsons ankles in Game 1