Speculation: Duchene VS MacKinnon VS Landeskog *(Read OP before voting)

[CobraAcesS]

****To be clear, this is a 'Gun to your head' type scenario. The reason I chose to leave out the option of "Don't trade either" or something like that is to force a choice. Some people have voted based on a different assumption.


I'm genuinely curious as to who we value the most long term.

In another thread I said that my opinion on keeping Duchene versus MacKinnon was not a popular one. Well IceRat said that's not as unpopular as I might think.

Personally for me I think the only reason to trade one of the three core forwards would be in order to pull a upgrade at defense, enough of one that would be an upgrade on everyone we currently have.

So to me, I think MacKinnon is really the only way that realistically happens.

So again, if this is a legit conversation or worry who would you prefer to use, and for what reason?


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I'm not including Barrie or Varly because they are the easiest answer and cause the least amount of pain for various reasons.

Click to read more...

 

[Freudian]

I don't think Avs can trade any of them. A team with only three top six forwards (with Rantanen as a probable fourth and Söderberg as a highly suspect fifth) need to hang on to what they have. We already have very low puck skill up front.

It's easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It is frustrating that the team isn't playing good hockey but Duchene/Landeskog certainly isn't the major problem and you have to give MacKinnon time to reach his potential, whatever it may be.

 

[InjuredChoker]

if we trade one of those guys, we have two top 6 forwards signed for next season (soderberg is borderline). even if we sign radulov, they are still short a legit top 6 F or two (it's rare for teams to have 6 legit top 6 forwards).

beauch, EJ, barrie, bigras and zadorov should be able to play top 4 level next season or close to it.

of course there would be the option to trade one of those latter 3 guys for a forward (maybe drouin?). i don't think it's likely that any of those will ever be elite defenseman in this league. and almost all cup winners post lockout have had one.

but only one who might get elite defenseman (or one at the cusp of it) back in return is mackinnon. which would open up other big holes.


but anyway as for the poll.. it heavily depends on the trade return. mackinnon is the most untouchable for me but he also should have most value around the league. but since we can't know what kind of offers they could get, i say landeskog and mack are keepers but duchene is not. and i'm not sure if we can even get equal value for duchene. he's one of the best ES point producers in the league. he has his flaws but he can still bring so much and has been our best player this season. teams usually don't get better by trading their best player.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I don't think Avs can trade any of them. A team with only three top six forwards (with Rantanen as a probable fourth and Söderberg as a highly suspect fifth) need to hang on to what they have. We already have very low puck skill up front.

It's easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It is frustrating that the team isn't playing good hockey but Duchene/Landeskog certainly isn't the major problem and you have to give MacKinnon time to reach his potential, whatever it may be.

Oh I agree with this sentiment, but there also seems to be a strong opinion out there that we may be facing trading one of them. It's kind of a gut punch IMO to even think about it, it's choose your foot or your hand IMO.

The only way I could stomach it personally is if it's a one for one for a defender. Yeah, maybe it's lateral but it hurts less.

If they split an asset ala O'Reilly, regardless of it being Varly or Barrie or a forward. We all know we'll be set back years again most likely.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Going to be really weird results in this poll since it asks who would you choose to trade or keep? Two completely different things lol.

 

[ArWKo]

Look at the West - look at teams in the playoffs - now look at the goal differentials of those who are in, and those who are out.

Avs sit at -19 right now. Is there any defenseman we can acquire for one of those forwards that going to move our differential in the right direction? I don't think so, and even if we do improve on the back end, this isn't a team just teeming with goal scoring forwards by any means. I know that you sometimes need to move assets to get other pieces back, but I just don't think a good enough fit is out there.

There isn't the "Johanssen for Jones" trade available.

I think if you are looking to add a piece - find a team like Anaheim who has too many good young dmen to save them all during the expansion draft and see what you can work out around that for futures and maybe a lesser piece - if you have to give up your 1st at draft day depending on what the draft landscape looks like - maybe you do that, but I don't think trading away any of these three guys makes the team better in the long run.

If I had to trade one - I would at least wait until the season is a few weeks old or perhaps the deadline to give the current team a chance to show us what they can do with another year under their belts. If the backend is just an unmitigated disaster but they've shown they can score well, then MAYBE you decide you can move on from a top end forward talent, but right now I don't see it.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Going to be really weird results in this poll since it asks who would you choose to trade or keep? Two completely different things lol.

How should I word it different? I think I can change it right?

The thread title is more to the main idea, but it seemed redundant to just put the same thing.

'If you had to choose, which one would you trade?' ~maybe?

Even that's hard, because most don't want to trade any of them.

 

[InjuredChoker]

expansion draft is also coming up soon. can't add too many defenseman that have to be protected.

 

[CantTouchThis]

I don't think Avs can trade any of them. A team with only three top six forwards (with Rantanen as a probable fourth and Söderberg as a highly suspect fifth) need to hang on to what they have. We already have very low puck skill up front.

It's easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It is frustrating that the team isn't playing good hockey but Duchene/Landeskog certainly isn't the major problem and you have to give MacKinnon time to reach his potential, whatever it may be.

This.

Colorado was once home to a lot of future forward strength with Staz and ROR. Losing both has put us back a bit. Our forwards are average right now. And our defense is well below average. Our Goaltending position is probably the best right now.

 

[chet1926]

This is stupid we shouldn't have to worry about trading any of them, those 3 guys aren't the problem. But of course since we have dictator Roy in command and can all but guarantee Duchene is a goner.

We all saw what it was like to play without Duchene and MacKinnon. It was horrid and when you trade Duchene for garbage it's going to be even worse.

Leave it to Roy to come in a find a way to lose/trade 3 top 6 centers in 3 years. What a ****ing joke. Roy is entering McDaniels territory. The guy has no concept of how to evaluate a players worth or skill level.

I can't wait to enter next year with a top line of Landy-Soderberg-Comeau, and MacK will probably have to center Iginla.

**** off Roy. Thanks for running this team into the ground.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

If one of these 3 has to be traded I guess I choose Duchene. I wouldn't move any of them though. Also if Duchene is traded Rantanen HAS to play centre and I don't think that's where he's at his best.

 

[CantTouchThis]

How should I word it different? I think I can change it right?

The thread title is more to the main idea, but it seemed redundant to just put the same thing.

'If you had to choose, which one would you trade?' ~maybe?

Even that's hard, because most don't want to trade any of them.

Stick to one or the other -

 

[Cousin Eddie]

How should I word it different? I think I can change it right?

The thread title is more to the main idea, but it seemed redundant to just put the same thing.

'If you had to choose, which one would you trade?' ~maybe?

Even that's hard, because most don't want to trade any of them.

Just choose one or the other. Who would you trade? Or who would you keep? People can discuss their actual reasonings in the thread but by having two questions in the poll you won't get consistent answers.

 

[Hans Landaskog]

How should I word it different? I think I can change it right?

The thread title is more to the main idea, but it seemed redundant to just put the same thing.

'If you had to choose, which one would you trade?' ~maybe?

Even that's hard, because most don't want to trade any of them.

add an option to not trade any of them, and reword it to "Who would you trade?"

 

[BoxOfChocolates]

Gun to my head, I trade Duchene.

 

[CantTouchThis]

This is stupid we shouldn't have to worry about trading any of them, those 3 guys aren't the problem. But of course since we have dictator Roy in command and can all but guarantee Duchene is a goner.

We all saw what it was like to play without Duchene and MacKinnon. It was horrid and when you trade Duchene for garbage it's going to be even worse.

Leave it to Roy to come in a find a way to lose/trade 3 top 6 centers in 3 years. What a ****ing joke. Roy is entering McDaniels territory. The guy has no concept of how to evaluate a players worth or skill level.

I can't wait to enter next year with a top line of Landy-Soderberg-Comeau, and MacK will probably have to center Iginla.

**** off Roy. Thanks for running this team into the ground.

On paper, this team is as it finished the year- a fringe playoff team.

We picked Mack 3 years ago first overall. We can't expect to be contending for the stanley cup that quickly.

 

[CobraAcesS]

This is stupid we shouldn't have to worry about trading any of them, those 3 guys aren't the problem. But of course since we have dictator Roy in command and can all but guarantee Duchene is a goner.

We all saw what it was like to play without Duchene and MacKinnon. It was horrid and when you trade Duchene for garbage it's going to be even worse.

Leave it to Roy to come in a find a way to lose/trade 3 top 6 centers in 3 years. What a ****ing joke. Roy is entering McDaniels territory. The guy has no concept of how to evaluate a players worth or skill level.

I can't wait to enter next year with a top line of Landy-Soderberg-Comeau, and MacK will probably have to center Iginla.

**** off Roy. Thanks for running this team into the ground.

I think this sentiment, and how hard it is to get a defender of the caliber needed to make it worth it is what stops it from ultimately happening.

They'll probably test the market with about everything they have IMO, but they'll likely not like what they find.

The fear I personally have is that they do actually decide to split one of the core players into younger assets. I'm not sure I want Roy here as coach still when they actually make that decision.

This sentiment seems to repeat itself now with Roy, and saying the same thing while Sacco was here, but it still has merit.

I want a legit coach with NHL experience for at least a season before trading any core piece, aside from contract issues with Barrie of course.

 

[AslanRH]

Duchene if required, but I think none are.

I truly believe if the Roy comments cause an ugly atmosphere that will linger, it will be Roy that leaves. Sakic is responsible to the organization and his loyalty to Roy can only extend so far.

 

[CobraAcesS]

add an option to not trade any of them, and reword it to "Who would you trade?"

Most would pick to not trade any one of them, I think we all know that. That isn't what the poll is about.

I'll reword it though if I can.


Edit : Maybe a mod can reword the question? I'm not seeing how you do it.


Just something like "Who would you trade if forced to choose" something like that.

 

[The Shermanator]

I would trade or keep Duchene.

 

[Iceberg]

I would trade Duchene or keep MacKinnon and Landeskog.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

I would trade or keep Duchene.

I see what you did there. Well done.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I would trade Duchene or keep MacKinnon and Landeskog.

Haha, yeah I deserve that. Opportunity given means opportunity taken lol.

 

[AvalancheFan19]

Keep all 3. We just lost Stastny and ROR. Trading or letting legitimate NHL talent go is a bad idea. If we trade one of these three to improve our defence then suddenly offence become the main issue.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Keep all 3. We just lost Stastny and ROR. Trading or letting legitimate NHL talent go is a bad idea. If we trade one of these three to improve our defence then suddenly offence become the main issue.

There is an argument to be made that the offense is much easier to fix through other avenues like drafting and free-agency than the defense.

Yes you most likely have to draft that #1 guy on the back end, but that is very difficult to do even when drafting said player at the top of the draft.

People also say that you should also pick BPA in the trade, because if later you have a surplus at one position and a need at another then you deal with it at that point in time.

Well with how difficult defense is to trade for, is that always the best choice?

I'd say this, if Roy and Sakic trade one of those guys for a defender. It will be much easier to replace the pure offensive production than it is to draft/develop a #1 defender.