Speculation: Duchene VS MacKinnon VS Landeskog *(Read OP before voting)
- Thread starter CobraAcesS
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As of right now I think Nate's ceiling is what Dutchy is right now, that is unless we don't get a decent coach behind the bench and something clicks inside Nate's head, both long shots knowing this organizations history. His past two seasons were a disappointment and apart from short stretches he showed nothing that would suggest he will become a top 5 centre in the NHL like we hoped he will. Also, I can't wrap my head around the fact that people would give him a long term contract worth 7 mil per year, for what? If I had to trade one of them it would be him.
As for Rantanen at centre, that's yet another dumb move by Roy. The kid took off as a pro once he got shifted to RW, and has never looked back. But now we'll try to re-invent the wheel and force a 19 year old to make a transition to the NHL playing a position(s) which isn't the one where he feels most comfortable.
Roy shifts his ''system'' - I use the word system quite wrongly here - on a whim, making it near impossible for the players to grow accustomed in it. There is no identity, some might disagree with that and say he a big club, but also a fast club and so on, to me that's not an identity. That flailing your bat around in an desperate attempt to whack a pinata because you have no idea what you really want.
He has lost the plot, and I can't understand how some are still backing him. The only explanation is that they can't differentiate between the infallible Patrick Roy the goalie, and the obviously mediocre Patrick Roy the coach. For me the shine wore off a while ago.
PS
If they fail to sign Compher, who was arguably the 2nd biggest piece coming back in O'Reilly trade every single one of them needs to GTFO, and the old boys club needs to be disbanded.
As for Rantanen at centre, that's yet another dumb move by Roy. The kid took off as a pro once he got shifted to RW, and has never looked back. But now we'll try to re-invent the wheel and force a 19 year old to make a transition to the NHL playing a position(s) which isn't the one where he feels most comfortable.
Roy shifts his ''system'' - I use the word system quite wrongly here - on a whim, making it near impossible for the players to grow accustomed in it. There is no identity, some might disagree with that and say he a big club, but also a fast club and so on, to me that's not an identity. That flailing your bat around in an desperate attempt to whack a pinata because you have no idea what you really want.
He has lost the plot, and I can't understand how some are still backing him. The only explanation is that they can't differentiate between the infallible Patrick Roy the goalie, and the obviously mediocre Patrick Roy the coach. For me the shine wore off a while ago.
PS
If they fail to sign Compher, who was arguably the 2nd biggest piece coming back in O'Reilly trade every single one of them needs to GTFO, and the old boys club needs to be disbanded.
Iceberg
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I don't get it, MacKinnon is at the same level of Duchene RIGHT NOW, and he is 4 years younger.
Tralfamadore
Don't Panic.
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Iceberg
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Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
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I disagree with this very much. I don't think there's a skater on the team on the same level as Matt Duchene as a hockey player.
Iceberg
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I feel like if MacKinnon had a picture with Avs posters hanging over his head as a kid the perceptions would be quit different.
I mean, there is only 05 points separating them right now, and 04 years of age.
One played center all year, the other had his coach scratching his head to get him out of a massive slump that helped put the team on a huge hole to start the season.
Now, Duchene had a great rebound season and he deserves a lot of praise for that, but does anyone feel confident that we'll never see the spinning Duchene ever again? I don't
I can assure you I don't care one bit about that. Joe Sakic is my favorite sports figure, but if him being gone means Avs will become good again I'm all for it.
I dont want to answer or I can't answer. They are all in their ways just as valuable to us. It's crazy! I can't think of way to answer this.. We just can't trade them. Simple as that.
You're blaming Duchene for our struggles early in the season? It was the whole team, watch the first 5-10 games again.. Our TEAM was brutal. Everybody sucked.
Iceberg
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Key word: helped
And it wasn't the whole team, MacKinnon was ppg during the first month of the season (that time people wanted to pay him 8M per season).
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
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The whole Duchene Avs fan thing annoys me more than anything.
As for Duchene's slump. That shows exactly how important he is. You mentioned how Duchene's slump had the Avs in a massive hole at the start of the season. Funny that Nathan Mackinnon probably played the best hockey of his career during that month and the Avs probably had their worst month in frachise history. The next month Duchene heats up and the Avs heat up with him.
Iceberg
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And as Duchene heated up, so did Varlamov and MacKinnon continued his strong play, so he wasn't the only reason the team picked up points at that time.
If he had pulled his weight during the first month maybe we would be in the Playoffs right now.
And one of Duchene's best statistical season was the same one that led us to the 1st OA pick, btw.
Bone Breaker
Registered User
for me the answer would be quite simple (if applying some logic). Mackinnon and Duchene are very similar players, so I'd trade one of them instead of Lando. since Mac is younger and have potential to exceed Duchene's level, I'd keep him. sorry Duchene, but it's you on the line.
(though as I wrote somewhere else, if I were to trade a core piece, I'd look first at Varlamov, then EJ and just after that, Duchene)
(though as I wrote somewhere else, if I were to trade a core piece, I'd look first at Varlamov, then EJ and just after that, Duchene)
Uh, do you remember Duchene's third year at all?
I also think MacKinnon is just as good as Duchene right now, and I have no doubt he'll be better soon.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
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No doubt that if Duchene pulled his weight in the first 10 games we could be in a playoff spot but the same could be said about Mackinnon and his final 25 games.
klozge
Avs
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
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Probably. But Varlamov on a great day is better than Carey Price on a great day. That doesn't make Varlamov a better goalie. In a world where hockey players have more "good" days than "great" days this argument won't hold much merit. Mackinnon disappears when he's off, at least when Duchene slumps he's still putting in effort.
I expect Mackinnon to put it all together and pass Duchene very very soon but he hasn't reached him yet IMO.
klozge
Avs
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To the window!
Yeah, it's how you play on your off days....I think Sakic said it. That is where Dutchy has gotten better. I think that will just take time when it comes to Mackinnon. What I like about Mackinnon is that he seems to rise to the big games.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
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OH I'm with you 100%. Gun to my head if one of the 3 forwards has to go it's Duchene 11 times out of 10. But the poster I quoted capitalizes the words "Right Now" when comparing Mackinnon/Duchene which is why I said what I did.
RockLobster
King in the North
Has he though?
Duchene's "off days", which we've seen him go through a number of times, are bad. He gets tunnel-vision, tries to do everything himself, spin-moves into turnovers, doesn't use his linemates, etc.
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I think the question here is, which player between Duchene and MacK do you want to build your team around? Neither is really the ideal #2C to put behind the other and putting one on the wing probably isn't the best long-term idea.
Iceberg
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In MacKinnon's final 25 games he had 14 points, that is a 0,56 ptspg. That is disapointing for him, but not nearly as bad as Duchene's early season struggles.
Even if i were to agree with you that Duchene is better than MacKinnon right now (i don't), the age factor should be enough to determine who the more valuable player is.
