Speculation: Duchene VS MacKinnon VS Landeskog *(Read OP before voting)

[CobraAcesS]

Ahh ok I see where your coming from. Indeed the sting would be less depending on who we get of course.

Yeah I didn't want to put that point in the OP, some people actually read them before voting lol. Not that it would change anyone's mind, but I wanted the general opinion without trying to change someones mind ahead of it.

IceRat said MacK over Duchene was not as popular as I might think, and I said it would be surprising if that was the case.

That's what made me start the poll anyways.

Since I know there is a few who would choose Landeskog, I had to add him to the poll to make it fair IMO. Personally I'm not sure who would have more value around the league between Landeskog and Duchene. Depends on the team probably.

Cobra, can we have that voting option of 'none of them'? Please?

There's a pretty massive drop in talent from those three down to the next forward. Ugly scenario.

Yeah I know... it's scary AF

Roy is the cool customer on some days, and others hes ****ing Patrick Eastwood Roy, with a gun to your head.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I would not trade any of them, because there's absolutely no way we'd get back an equal player (at the moment). It would be futures, and it would just set the rebuild back again, and even then, no guarantees we'd get good value.

But if you held a gun to my head on which one of them I'd deal, Duchene is the one that would hurt the least, to me.

 

[JLo217]

I chose Landeskog... not sure why. Just seemed like the best to trade in a gun to the head scenario I guess...

 

[Hesher]

I wouldn't trade any of them but if I absolutely had to trade one of them it would probably be Duchene.

 

[chet1926]

Gun to head I voted Landeskog. Reason being is you can't keep trading top end talents away every year. Landeskog's the least talented of the three, thus the reason he was my pick.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Gun to head I voted Landeskog. Reason being is you can't keep trading top end talents away every year. Landeskog's the least talented of the three, thus the reason he was my pick.

People make a good point though, you can't keep bleeding players who can actually control the game and play a 200 ft game. Which we have honestly...

Losing O'Reilly and Stastny both and replacing them with Soderberg and Iginla was a net loss in the beginning. We'll see if the O'Reilly trade becomes a net gain as Grigorenko and Zadorov develop, and then possibly Compher as well.

I don't think Stastny had that big of a negative impact, but losing O'Reilly and only really having Greg on the 4th line and Soderberg as the replacement when we needed to be adding top six forwards not losing them was an early loss. Most of us knew that though.

They did try to go after Neal at the draft before finally getting Iginla as a UFA.

 

[cgf]

I take the bullet.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I take the bullet.

I think if I put a 4th option, that's how I should have worded it lmao.


Never change, CGF

 

[Nalens Oga]

Voted MacKinnon since he has the highest value of the three and might not ever be as good as Duchene already is but instead of trading them, I do a rebuild where I keep them all.

I plan to do a rebuild with a 4-5 year aim of competitive (meaning trying to win the cup not just trying to win a playoff series). EJ/Varly are older and might not be good enough in 5 years plus they have good trade value right now so I trade them for draft picks or prospects with the focus being on getting top pairing Dmen going forward probably via draft. Then I trade everyone to tank for the next couple seasons to get a high draft pick outside of Duchene/Mac/Landy/Rantanen/Barrie/Bigras/Zadorov/Grigorenko/possibly Pickard. With those guys, we already have 8 NHLers on our roster who AT WORST are 2nd line forwards and #4 dmen. They're still gonna be good in 5 years time and possibly in their prime. We just need to get a few high draft picks that can easily be done by tanking/trading in the next 2 years to get a game-changing 1st line forward and a proper dman. The other holes are filled via free agency/other prospects.

I think that plan is the only way to go forward in terms of winning the cup because our current group with a better coach and some holes filled can win us a playoff round or two but not the cup. Since I wanna win the cup and not just be competitive, I try to acquire that high end forward/dman that's only gonna get done through the draft.

Realistically, I know this won't happen as it's too late for Sakic to do it now he does wanna have a job after all plus this teams ownership is probably pushing for playoffs now to get money and can't afford to just miss them for two more seasons in hopes of getting a franchise player.

 

[ArWKo]

I suppose I never actually answered the question - if I HAD to, I would pick MacKinnon. I think he is the only one you could even come close to getting the right piece this team needs back for, and the only one you could likely get "fair" value for.

I think Duchene is criminally underrated and Landeskog brings elements of play in his game that nobody else on this team can and the role he plays would be sorely and desperately missed if he were gone.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Voted MacKinnon since he has the highest value of the three and might not ever be as good as Duchene already is but instead of trading them, I do a rebuild where I keep them all.

I plan to do a rebuild with a 4-5 year aim of competitive (meaning trying to win the cup not just trying to win a playoff series). EJ/Varly are older and might not be good enough in 5 years plus they have good trade value right now so I trade them for draft picks or prospects with the focus being on getting top pairing Dmen going forward probably via draft. Then I trade everyone to tank for the next couple seasons to get a high draft pick outside of Duchene/Mac/Landy/Rantanen/Barrie/Bigras/Zadorov/Grigorenko/possibly Pickard. With those guys, we already have 8 NHLers on our roster who AT WORST are 2nd line forwards and #4 dmen. They're still gonna be good in 5 years time and possibly in their prime. We just need to get a few high draft picks that can easily be done by tanking/trading in the next 2 years to get a game-changing 1st line forward and a proper dman. The other holes are filled via free agency/other prospects.

I think that plan is the only way to go forward in terms of winning the cup because our current group with a better coach and some holes filled can win us a playoff round or two but not the cup. Since I wanna win the cup and not just be competitive, I try to acquire that high end forward/dman that's only gonna get done through the draft.

Realistically, I know this won't happen as it's too late for Sakic to do it now he does wanna have a job after all plus this teams ownership is probably pushing for playoffs now to get money and can't afford to just miss them for two more seasons in hopes of getting a franchise player.

The bad part is, we wouldn't tank far enough if all of those guys are on the NHL roster. Especially if a coaching change is made, unless you just brought in Dean lol. Who knows though, he may be even more tactically sound than Roy if given some talent.

Also it's likely Duchene ends up traded eventually anyways because we'll be wasting his prime years. You'd have to make sure our goal-tending sucked balls for those years lol.

 

[cgf]

I'm not sure that it would, but moving one of these guys in the summer...without it being an incredible steal for us...could push me away from this team, the way this team did when we kept throwing away our futures to barely make the playoffs in Sakic's final years. I still followed the team and wanted them to do well, but I couldn't care about the day to day or any roster moves. It wasn't until Joe's retirement season and the following rebuild that I got sucked back in.

Moving one of these guys when we're final at the point where things are supposed to start coming together...with a defense that's deeper than just EJ & Barrie, a forward core that has more than 4/5 talents, and some nice prospects to come through in the years to come...would just be so frustrating. It's one thing if Tyson wants ROR money or more & we have to cash in on him. It's a completely different thing to trade our two best forwards who are on good contracts, or our most talented player (before he's even old enough to drink).

There's work to be done, but it's not earth-shattering work that needs to happen. We need to dump some of Berra/Holden/Gelinas/Mitchell/Comeau/Matthias, and/or ideally Iggy. We need to sign Rads, failing that we need to get Boeds back at a good price. And we need to start next season with Bigras & Zadorov being established parts of our defense; while Greg, Mikko & Rads/Boeds are in the top 9 from the start of the year. If that team can't move the puck up ice, and keep the forechecking pressure up consistently, after having the offseason to work on a more skilled/in-control style with the puck; then replace Roy.

TL;DR
Under no circumstances should we make any more core-changing trades until we've tried a new coach, and I don't think we should replace Roy until he's had one more season to show us how he wants the team to play once the defense can skate & move the puck cleanly...as he's done a good job with the young talent & the locker-room's unity; despite his tactical issues.

 

[CB Joe]

If one of these 3 has to be traded I guess I choose Duchene. I wouldn't move any of them though. Also if Duchene is traded Rantanen HAS to play centre and I don't think that's where he's at his best.

Why does Rantanen have to play center? Why not just go with MacKinnon and Soderberg?

 

[IceRat]

IceRat said MacK over Duchene was not as popular as I might think, and I said it would be surprising if that was the case.

actually I said it [moving MacK over Duchene] was more popular than you may think
but then again what the hell does my opinion matter

I did not vote in the poll
I don't think any of the 3 listed should be moved, but MacK would be the first choice if I were to see one go

 

[Nalens Oga]

The bad part is, we wouldn't tank far enough if all of those guys are on the NHL roster. Especially if a coaching change is made, unless you just brought in Dean lol. Who knows though, he may be even more tactically sound than Roy if given some talent.

You're totally right, those 8 are so good that that based on individual talent and with a decent coach, they'd steal us too many games for us to be in the bottom 3 and we'd still be missing the playoffs. The solution is really to turn the rest of the roster to trash with a goon type 4th line to protect the young guys and giving lots of prospects a chance like the Leafs do on the remaining lines while reaching the cap floor with an overpaid has-been veteran like Iggy who's good for the locker room.

Hopefully a coach who's really good at developing players and instilling good habits and defensive awareness but horrible at winning games....I know that's not an easy combo to find but obviously it's not Roy.

That is the only solution though because any other solution is half-assed and is gonna end up like what the Leafs tried doing with Burke. You have to somehow bring in game-changing talent and hope it turns into Doughty/Keith/Toews/Kane/Stamkos and rely on a bit of drafting luck as well like Dallas got with Benn. You can't acquire it in a trade and you can't expect the current guys to turn into that. So either trade the current guys or keep them and bring in those other potentially elite players via draft. 2 game-changing players might be all it takes. I've grown a bit cold on Varly's consistency and ability to win 2+ series in the playoffs as well so I bag a return for him while it's as high as possibly.

 

[cgf]

Why does Rantanen have to play center? Why not just go with MacKinnon and Soderberg?

Because Soda's like 30 years old...and there's a good chance we're gunna need to expose him in the expansion draft, given the likely limitations on how many players can be protected & the requirements on how much salary needs to be exposed.

Greg could be the answer to keeping Mikko on the wing w/o Duchene, but I dunno if the team sees greg as a top 6 C; rather than just as a top 6 (or top 9) Winger who can fill in at C.

 

[CB Joe]

Because Soda's like 30 years old...and there's a good chance we're gunna need to expose him in the expansion draft, given the likely limitations on how many players can be protected & the requirements on how much salary needs to be exposed.

Greg could be the answer to keeping Mikko on the wing w/o Duchene, but I dunno if the team sees greg as a top 6 C; rather than just as a top 6 (or top 9) Winger who can fill in at C.

Oh that makes sense. I didn't consider the expansion draft. I thought you were saying Soderberg couldn't be a second line center.

 

[Drij]

In hindsight the avs should have traded Landeskog and kept MacKinnon / Duchene / O'Reilly.

 

[cgf]

Oh that makes sense. I didn't consider the expansion draft. I thought you were saying Soderberg couldn't be a second line center.

I'm not sure what Kento meant, but those are the reasons why I'd assume that Mikko would play Center if Dutchy or MacK were to be traded:

-Soda's not a long term solution as a 2C due to his age; and isn't the best 2C even now.
-Soda seems the most likely skater for us to lose in an expansion draft...or at the very least he should be one of (if not) the most appealing skaters that we expose.

Soda could do the job until he slowed down, but in the long run they'd probably be looking to Rantanen to fill that job.

 

[missionAvs]

In hindsight the avs should have traded Landeskog and kept MacKinnon / Duchene / O'Reilly.

As a player, disregarding any conflicts with the organization over contract talks and whatnot, the argument can be made that O'Reilly > Dutchy but I think losing Lando would be absolutely awful. He's a very unique player to have in the top 6 and brings a lot to the table that we just don't have anywhere else.

 

[forsbergavs32]

I preface this by saying we shouldn't move anyone yet, but gun to my head...I would move Landeskog. He tends to disappear a lot (yes Duchene does too but not as much) and when he is playing he ends up taking a bad penalty and/or suspension. Not only that, the team still played decent while Lando was out but the same can't be said for without Duchene or Mack

 

[Jayevs]

Mack because he has the most value, and I don't think he ends up all that much better than Duchene.

 

[JoemAvs]

Might as well start a full blown rebuild then.

Trade most of EJ, Barrie, Beauchemin, Iggy, Varly, Mitchell,etc.

Rebuild around 2 of the 3 + Pickard, Bigras, Zads, Rantanen, 1st.



The truth is that the Avs have done well with their 3 top draftpicks.
The truth is also that we have done a piss poor job at rebuilding and accumulating assets in general and that we can not keep losing our high end talent year after year.


From Stastny to ROR to potentially Duchene. 3 young top line forwards (centers to boot) in 3 years.

That would be beyond ridiculous. Might as well pull the plug.

By now we should have learned that you NEVER win those kind of trades / moves.


Iggy for Stastny was a major fail and basically everyone knew it from the start.

The ROR trade was always a loss for us but giving the circumstances I was fine with it.

But if they turn around and trade Duchene now (EDIT: after this whole Duchene cap madness) this whole front office is a joke.


At this point it looks like the Avs will regret the day they chose nepotism (Roy/Sakic) over competence.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

Lol Soderberg is a legit top-6 forward. He's the new Stastny, forever underappreciated.

As to who I would trade, it would be Duchene and then MacK. The new regime isn't gonna trade their precious #1 OA pick though, so if changes like this are to happen, MacK is safe, Dutchy and Landy not so much.

 

[Galactico]

Neither. We have to keep both. We already traded ROR for below value return and let Stastny go for nothing. We can not trade Duchene, Mack or Landy period unless the return is exceptional, which is not going to happen.