Speculation: Duchene VS MacKinnon VS Landeskog *(Read OP before voting)

[Cousin Eddie]

Has he though?

Duchene's "off days", which we've seen him go through a number of times, are bad. He gets tunnel-vision, tries to do everything himself, spin-moves into turnovers, doesn't use his linemates, etc.

We haven't seen that this season though. Even his slump in October had him generating chance alike crazy and setting his linemates up. Same thing happened in his late season slump last year. If he had anybody other than Mitchell and Iggy on his line he would have been one of the leagues best players from February on.

The team was shooting at like a less than 1% while Duchene was on the ice in October. Duchene hasn't had one of those "tunnel" vision slumps since Nov/Dec of last season (where he was absolutely atrocious lol).

So yes he has absolutely gotten better there.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

In MacKinnon's final 25 games he had 14 points, that is a 0,56 ptspg. That is disapointing for him, but not nearly as bad as Duchene's early season struggles.

Even if i were to agree with you that Duchene is better than MacKinnon right now (i don't), the age factor should be enough to determine who the more valuable player is.

But you're comparing 25 games to 10. 30% of an 82 game season to 12%.

The age does factor in who the more valuable player is but you capitalized "RIGHT NOW" so I thought we were talking about right now. Long term I take Mackinnon easily.

Edit: actually Mackinnon ha scored at a .54ppg pace over his last 48 games. Which is 59% of the season.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

In MacKinnon's final 25 games he had 14 points, that is a 0,56 ptspg. That is disapointing for him, but not nearly as bad as Duchene's early season struggles.

Even if i were to agree with you that Duchene is better than MacKinnon right now (i don't), the age factor should be enough to determine who the more valuable player is.

This feels like the same argument from back 5 or 6 years ago. At this point in time, I wouldn't bet against either player turning out the best. Both have glaring flaws in their game that will keep them from being elite. I honestly, think they're the same player and who ends up better is a coin flip.

 

[Iceberg]

Probably. But Varlamov on a great day is better than Carey Price on a great day. That doesn't make Varlamov a better goalie. In a world where hockey players have more "good" days than "great" days this argument won't hold much merit. Mackinnon disappears when he's off, at least when Duchene slumps he's still putting in effort.

I expect Mackinnon to put it all together and pass Duchene very very soon but he hasn't reached him yet IMO.

Now, i have read many times since yesterday that Duchene is the only one who gives 100% every night (not that this is what you are saying Kento), and that is BS.

How short or selective memory do we have around here? i'm sure it wouldn't take me 5 minutes to find a few GDT threads that would have people complaining, among other things, about his effort.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Now, i have read many times since yesterday that Duchene is the only one who gives 100% every night (not that this is what you are saying Kento), and that is BS.

How short or selective memory do we have around here? i'm sure it wouldn't take me 5 minutes to find a few GDT threads that would have people complaining, among other things, about his effort.

I challenge you to do this lol. It's been a year and a half since Duchene has ever been consistently questioned on this. You may find an odd game or two which is normal unless he is Thor but Duchene's effort issues seems to be long gone.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I would disagree. Duchene was also better at the same age.

Not even close bro.

 

[5280]

Has he though?

Duchene's "off days", which we've seen him go through a number of times, are bad. He gets tunnel-vision, tries to do everything himself, spin-moves into turnovers, doesn't use his linemates, etc.

I guess I was speaking about him doing things like backchecking, not cherry picking, battling on the boards, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I've pretty much always thought we should trade Duchene. I even advocated it a couple of years ago and got laughed off the boards. A one two punch with Mack and Dutchy doesn't make much sense to me, hasn't ever. Plus, he has always frustrated me, as a player.

Having said that, though, I have seen improvement.

 

[ArWKo]

This conversation got me curious to look at Duchene vs MacKinnon in their first three seasons and I was a little surprised as how similar they were.

Dutchy (219GP)
150 all-situation points
92 5v5 points
65 all-situation goals
40 5v5 goals
41.39 OZF% all-situation
32.52 OZF% 5v5

MacKinnon (218GP)
153 all-situation points
98 5v5 points
59 all-situation goals
35 5v5 goals
41.15 OZF% all-situation
33 OZF% 5v5

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Without looking at stats I would say Mackinnon is significantly better 3 years into his career than Duchene was.

 

[Former Ladder]

Without looking at stats I would say Mackinnon is significantly better 3 years into his career than Duchene was.

He certainly drives the play forward a lot more. I just wish he had a little more determination in his game consistently. Hopefully that comes with time.

 

[Iceberg]

But you're comparing 25 games to 10. 30% of an 82 game season to 12%.

The age does factor in who the more valuable player is but you capitalized "RIGHT NOW" so I thought we were talking about right now. Long term I take Mackinnon easily.

Edit: actually Mackinnon ha scored at a .54ppg pace over his last 48 games. Which is 59% of the season.

I only used the last 25 games because that's # o games you had brought up. Bottom line, when you look at the whole season, the numbers are close, and i would take the center over the winger any time.

So, IMO, MacKinnon is just as good as Duchene right now (not going to capitalize this time), and i would bet on him surpassing Duchene in the near future.

And i'm not questioning Duchene's effort, but to say he is the only one that gives it 100% every night, like i've read a few times? Some people around here puts the guy on a pedestal.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

You either need to keep all three or blow up the team and build the franchise around Mack and rebuild

 

[Iceberg]

You either need to keep all three or blow up the team and build the franchise around Mack and rebuild.

I'm starting to think that this is the best idea.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

I don't know, sometimes I think so too, but when Mack is truly ready to be the 1c it'd be really awesome to have someone like duchene as our 2c so long as we can have real talent on both players' wings

Also duchenes face off numbers this year are huge. We need that after losing factors face off prowess

 

[CobraAcesS]

I don't know, sometimes I think so too, but when Mack is truly ready to be the 1c it'd be really awesome to have someone like duchene as our 2c so long as we can have real talent on both players' wings

Also duchenes face off numbers this year are huge. We need that after losing factors face off prowess

I think the arguments all lead to one place, and that's that we need all of them, and none of them should be traded.

We just all have to hope like hell that Sakic realizes that. Sakic himself should want to see this team under one more coach before making any kind of huge decision like that. Unless the perfect trade falls in his lap.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

I think the arguments all lead to one place, and that's that we need all of them, and none of them should be traded.

We just all have to hope like hell that Sakic realizes that. Sakic himself should want to see this team under one more coach before making any kind of huge decision like that. Unless the perfect trade falls in his lap.

Yep. It all boils back down to patience. We're all too impatient with this team. The reality is the talent on the team hasn't developed yet, and if we keep trading the primed talent Away this team will never contend. I think Roy made a huge mistake saying its playoffs or bust this year. They're just not ready yet. We could all do better to see this situation through with a little bit more patience

 

[ABasin]

This conversation got me curious to look at Duchene vs MacKinnon in their first three seasons and I was a little surprised as how similar they were.

Dutchy (219GP)
150 all-situation points
92 5v5 points
65 all-situation goals
40 5v5 goals
41.39 OZF% all-situation
32.52 OZF% 5v5

MacKinnon (218GP)
153 all-situation points
98 5v5 points
59 all-situation goals
35 5v5 goals
41.15 OZF% all-situation
33 OZF% 5v5

Yes, they're similar. But what about the talent around each of them in those respective seasons?

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yes, they're similar. But what about the talent around each of them in those respective seasons?

MacK also has not had to play through injuries in the same way Duchene did for long stretches in at least one season.

We all know that one year in the later half Duchene played on the third line with a lingering ankle and knee injury on different legs.

He gets a lot of **** from people for his point totals in that season, at least from ones who don't know that.

 

[AslanRH]

My decision comes down to this between MacK and Dutch since I agree they are somewhat redundant:

Who's play impresses me more when the other is not in the lineup?
I generally choose MacK.
disclaimer: (I'm not a stat guy so this is just my memory and impression)
I think when evaluating both at center, Dutch produces/plays better when there is another line a team needs to worry about like when MacK is out the next shift. MacK seems to be more consistent even if Dutch is out of the lineup.

My preference is of course keeping them all, and I actually much preferred Duchene all around at MacK's RW this season.

Now if Boeds is re-signed, I like the MacK - Boeds pair a lot, so having Dutch with Rants may be a good solution, but then I want Dutch at center.