Rumor: Duchene for...? Part III

[Pokecheque]

Size is not the issue, speed is a much, much bigger concern with this club right now.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Isn't Nolan Patrick already 6 foot 3?

MacKinnon has taken strides to become better defensively but if the avs are trying to add to the top six I'd much rather it be saad. Keep MacKinnon and duchene as the 1-2 and then surround them with saad, lando, rantanen, and jost and they would fair much better.

Yes, larger centers like Kopitar have helped win a few cups lately but the real backbone of the Kings and blackhawks is their overall depth, quality goaltending and #1 d men. Doughty, Keith, hammer, were more important than having a large center.

There are a lot of things holding the avs back from making the playoffs, let alone winning the Stanley cup, and the fact their top 2 centers are not 6'3 230+ is the least of my worries.

Saad is definitely my favorite so far when it comes to forwards ending up here through trading Barrie. I just don't agree that trading defense for a forward is the right thing to do. At least not without replacing that #3/4 spot in the same breath.

Barrie for Saad for RNH

Duchene for Hamonic + Barzal

Sign me up

 

[Cypher]

Just blow it up...go big or go home I say

Duchene
Grigorenko
Barrie
Varlamov

for

Tavares
Clutterbuck
Hamonic
Halak
Greiss

 

[CobraAcesS]

Just blow it up...go big or go home I say

Duchene
Grigorenko
Barrie
Varlamov

for

Tavares
Clutterbuck
Hamonic
Halak
Greiss

lol if only

 

[Avs44]

Just blow it up...go big or go home I say

Duchene
Grigorenko
Barrie
Varlamov

for

Tavares
Clutterbuck
Hamonic
Halak
Greiss

Barrie>=Hamonic
Varlamov>=Halak
Grigorenko=Clutterbuck


Yeah, that's decent, but then Tavares for Duchene? That's horrible for the Isles.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Barrie>=Hamonic
Varlamov>=Halak
Grigorenko=Clutterbuck


Yeah, that's decent, but then Tavares for Duchene? That's horrible for the Isles.

Duchene has an extra year left on his contract, so it could turn really bad for us actually. If Tavares wants to go to Toronto, you have no shot at keeping him. At least with Duchene there is a chance, and he does not have any stigma of going anywhere, so trading him is easier.

 

[dahrougem2]

Barrie>=Hamonic
Varlamov>=Halak
Grigorenko=Clutterbuck


Yeah, that's decent, but then Tavares for Duchene? That's horrible for the Isles.

Really?

In what world does Grigorenko = Clutterbuck? Maybe in a video game overall rating, but Clutterbuck is a much more effective player.

I'd also take Hamonic's overall game over Barrie.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Really?

In what world does Grigorenko = Clutterbuck? Maybe in a video game overall rating, but Clutterbuck is a much more effective player.

I'd also take Hamonic's overall game over Barrie.

OFD is worth a ton in today's NHL. Barrie's value is overall higher IMO, but not by much. I'd also prefer Hamonic, but that is more because we have left handed kids that could use a steady partner.

 

[Cypher]

Really?

In what world does Grigorenko = Clutterbuck? Maybe in a video game overall rating, but Clutterbuck is a much more effective player.

I'd also take Hamonic's overall game over Barrie.

Clutterbuck is a 29 year old pending UFA and Grigorenko is a 22 year old pending RFA.

 

[Avs44]

Really?

In what world does Grigorenko = Clutterbuck? Maybe in a video game overall rating, but Clutterbuck is a much more effective player.

I'd also take Hamonic's overall game over Barrie.

I wasn't talking player quality, I was taking value, which should have been obvious. What does Clutterbuck get as a UFA rental? Maybe a higher pick than Grigorenko, but when you're losing him in a few months, I'm not sure who I'd rather have. Either way, that is practically the most irrelevant thing to quibble over.

Duchene has an extra year left on his contract, so it could turn really bad for us actually. If Tavares wants to go to Toronto, you have no shot at keeping him. At least with Duchene there is a chance, and he does not have any stigma of going anywhere, so trading him is easier.

In terms of value it's not even close for the Islanders, and not really for the Avs either to be honest. I mean...say hypothetically that is all true and something that ludicrous went down. Just turn around and trade Tavares for a haul? Obviously none of this would remotely happen, but the value between Duchene and Tavares is very wide.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I wasn't talking player quality, I was taking value, which should have been obvious. What does Clutterbuck get as a UFA rental? Maybe a higher pick than Grigorenko, but when you're losing him in a few months, I'm not sure who I'd rather have. Either way, that is practically the most irrelevant thing to quibble over.



In terms of value it's not even close for the Islanders, and not really for the Avs either to be honest. I mean...say hypothetically that is all true and something that ludicrous went down. Just turn around and trade Tavares for a haul? Obviously none of this would remotely happen, but the value between Duchene and Tavares is very wide.

Like I said, all depends on how sure JT is about ending up in Leaf land. Short term type of hauls, you maybe get an extra piece in a package deal, except Duchene you might actually get a more valuable single piece rather than a package. Everyone and their mother expects Tavares to jump ship for Toronto, and I believe it a hell of a lot more than the Stamkos stuff because he was on a strong team in a good city with no state income tax.

 

[Sea Eagles]

Size is not the issue, speed is a much, much bigger concern with this club right now.

PHEW ! Oh wait, you said "club".

 

[Sea Eagles]

Wait, did someone just claim Barrie is better than Hamonic? Thaaaat's a wow !

 

[CobraAcesS]

Wait, did someone just claim Barrie is better than Hamonic? Thaaaat's a wow !

Really? ****

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I would move Barrie for a ~15th area 1st + Good prospect or decent roster player type.


Not sure what teams would be interested in that. But if EDM for example(Assuming they just missed playoffs and offered its 1st in the 10-14 range bu + Tyler Benson I'd probably do that.


Go with a Forward with our pick and then take a Dman with Edmonton's pick.

 

[Avs44]

Wait, did someone just claim Barrie is better than Hamonic? Thaaaat's a wow !

Yes, because the second pairing defensive defensman that is Travis Hamonic is clearly much better.

 

[JoemAvs]

I would move Barrie for a ~15th area 1st + Good prospect or decent roster player type.


Not sure what teams would be interested in that. But if EDM for example(Assuming they just missed playoffs and offered its 1st in the 10-14 range bu + Tyler Benson I'd probably do that.


Go with a Forward with our pick and then take a Dman with Edmonton's pick.

Thats a bad deal.
Wait a year before you consider this and give him a chance to bounce back.

A mid-1st + decent prospect for Barrie is not good value at all in this draft.
In the 2018 draft it might be, though.

 

[Foppberg]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I take Hamonic over Barrie for sure.

 

[S E P H]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I take Hamonic over Barrie for sure.

I'll take Hamonic over Barrie, but that doesn't mean that Hamonic is worth more than Barrie.

What they are, are defenders who have different areas of strengths. Hamonic won't touch Tyson's point totals while Barrie won't come close to Travis's shutdown ability.

I have been extra hard on Barrie this year, but even I understand that offensive defenders are just worth more than shutdown players. Much more rarer and unique type of strength than Hamonic's attributes. Harder to find in drafts as well, which is why Barrie is worth more, or why talented defensemen are normally worth a lot in trades (even the bad talented ones).

 

[agentblack]

I would move Barrie for a ~15th area 1st + Good prospect or decent roster player type.


Not sure what teams would be interested in that. But if EDM for example(Assuming they just missed playoffs and offered its 1st in the 10-14 range bu + Tyler Benson I'd probably do that.


Go with a Forward with our pick and then take a Dman with Edmonton's pick.

If your going just pick...
Id have to believe Barrie is worth at least picks 3-7 in the 1st.
If your going package , then i guess mid teens and a good B ish prospect? Maybe even A- depending on the team and
how desperate they are for his services

...hi EDM

 

[JoemAvs]

You should also do it sooner than later too. I more than get building the right way takes time but to not even want to get these guys into the system for two more years is just needlessly extending it.

Nah not really.

If we trade Barrie for a prospect + a 1st, we are basically starting the next rebuild.

It also probably means that Varly and probably one of Duchene/EJ should also go out of the door for futures.
You don't trade Barrie for futures after having a crappy season like we currently do and then say. "Lets contend now". That is stupid.


So I don't really care if it takes an extra year or not (the top prospects usually make it to the NHL sooner than the not so top prospects so I am not sure if it really delays it all that much).

Just get it right. If the difference in waiting means that we can get a potential #1 D prospect instead of a prospect with a celing of being a #2-3 at that spot, I will gladly wait a year.

I mean we have so often tried to quick-fix this mess and failed that it took 1.5 times longer than a proper rebuild would probably have taken us already.


So if we pull the plug again (which trading your 2nd best defenseman for futures on a very crappy defense basically is), I really want them to do it right for once.

 

[AvsGuy]

For what its worth, I acquired Hamonic on EA NHL and he was awful

It made me feel better

 

[Foppa]

I know I am going to get crucified for saying this but one quarter of the way through the season under a new head coach is too early for me to want to blow things up.

If by February we are still dreadful - then I do agree, go big or go home with the moves. I'd take MacKinnon, Rantanen and Landeskog off the table and everyone else becomes fair game for the right offer.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I know I am going to get crucified for saying this but one quarter of the way through the season under a new head coach is too early for me to want to blow things up.

If by February we are still dreadful - then I do agree, go big or go home with the moves. I'd take MacKinnon, Rantanen and Landeskog off the table and everyone else becomes fair game for the right offer.

It honestly wouldn't be the worst idea. I don't think you can do what other "rebuilding" teams have done in the past and just sit around in mediocrity assuming the young talent will eventually outgrow it. Previous Florida rebuilds failed for that reason, the eternal CBJ rebuild of the 2000's, Edmonton prior to McDavid. If it's not working, don't sit around and hope that it will eventually, do something about it. Hopefully Sakic and Co. don't make panic moves to try to boost them into a playoff spot.

 

[henchman21]

A team can't really be blown up in December. Groundwork can be laid, but really the first chance at a blow up is in February... even if the Avs wanted to do such a thing (I have some doubts on Sakic pulling off those moves).