Speculation: Dreger: Detroit are eager to make a move

[Brick Top]

I feel the same way; I'd liked Edmonton as a fit for him last summer and still think they'd be a good fit. Cleary has been part of enough successful teams here to know what winning takes.

There's a difference between knowing what winning takes vs actually doing those things out on the ice. He may have the knowledge part down, but he's not doing anything to help the Wings win while he's on the ice and it's hard to see his game magically picking up for a new team.

Maybe he would be a great locker room guy for a young team like Edmonton. But that's the only place I see a positive impact from him on a team- it starts to swing the other way once he laces up the skates.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

maybe we can make a proper trade offering up a good prospect and young player plus sammy to bring in a better dman

smith plus tatar/jurco plus sammy for a better young top dman(myers, bogosian, etc)

 

[Chance on Chance]

maybe we can make a proper trade offering up a good prospect and young player plus sammy to bring in a better dman

smith plus tatar/jurco plus sammy for a better young top dman(myers, bogosian, etc)

From what I hear myers has been as bad as smith this year and makes a ton of money. Depending on what the deal for Boumeester was last year I would lean towards that.

 

[SoupNazi]

From what I hear myers has been as bad as smith this year and makes a ton of money. Depending on what the deal for Boumeester was last year I would lean towards that.

Yeah, I'm not sure if Myers' problem is that he needs a change of scenery or if it's something else, but I'd rather not risk Tatar or Jurco to find out. Particularly since Buffalo is in the same division and that prospect could really come back to bite us.

 

[crashman]

maybe we can make a proper trade offering up a good prospect and young player plus sammy to bring in a better dman

smith plus tatar/jurco plus sammy for a better young top dman(myers, bogosian, etc)

That is the type of trade I would like to see, but I really don't want to see Jurco going the other way.

Anyone other forward prospect except for him or Mantha.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

That is the type of trade I would like to see, but I really don't want to see Jurco going the other way.

Anyone other forward prospect except for him or Mantha.

The problem is in order to get those type of defenceman the team has to be entering a rebuild or you have to trade away an equal player, not picks/prospects/junk. If we want a young dman with Stud potential the trade has to hurt. Giving up Tatar+1st+Ferraro doesn't even sting if you're getting a #3 dman with top pairing upside. If Nyquist was playing the show & had shown that he was a capable 2nd line forward & that he had top line upside he would be a piece we could use, Mantha is another piece we would more than likely have to use. Think in terms of what we would have wanted for Kronwall back in 07-08 that's the cost for one of these dmen.

 

[Vladdy84]

Team that struggles to score goals? Lets trade our promising young players who can score for a D-man!

Defense will be fine once Big E comes back. If the Wings continue to average less than 3 goals a game it won't matter unless Jimmy becomes the best goalie in the World.

 

[crashman]

The problem is in order to get those type of defenceman the team has to be entering a rebuild or you have to trade away an equal player, not picks/prospects/junk. If we want a young dman with Stud potential the trade has to hurt. Giving up Tatar+1st+Ferraro doesn't even sting if you're getting a #3 dman with top pairing upside. If Nyquist was playing the show & had shown that he was a capable 2nd line forward & that he had top line upside he would be a piece we could use, Mantha is another piece we would more than likely have to use. Think in terms of what we would have wanted for Kronwall back in 07-08 that's the cost for one of these dmen.

You may be right, it's hard to say because good d-men aren't often traded.

Bouwmeester didn't cost the Blues too much.

 

[crashman]

Team that struggles to score goals? Lets trade our promising young players who can score for a D-man!

Defense will be fine once Big E comes back. If the Wings continue to average less than 3 goals a game it won't matter unless Jimmy becomes the best goalie in the World.

You can have a team stacked full of the best offensive forwards, but if they're not getting the puck or any support from their defense, they're not going to score.

 

[Heaton]

Team that struggles to score goals? Lets trade our promising young players who can score for a D-man!

Defense will be fine once Big E comes back. If the Wings continue to average less than 3 goals a game it won't matter unless Jimmy becomes the best goalie in the World.

No, the defense is not fine. We do not have the puck movers to get the puck to those 'young players who can score'. Back in the day our strength was obviously Datsyuk and Z, but it was also Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart etc... defensemen who could move the puck and generate offense. We do not have that and our team is hurting big time because of it.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

You may be right, it's hard to say because good d-men aren't often traded.

Bouwmeester didn't cost the Blues too much.

No but he wasn't a young top pairing defenceman. Jbo was undervalued in Calgary but IIRC he had a big contract that was looked at as a big negative due to how poorly he had played in Calgary. But what we offered was more then a fair offer, Jurco+Sheahan+2nd, especially when you look at what he was traded for.

 

[Johnz96*]

No but he wasn't a young top pairing defenceman. Jbo was undervalued in Calgary but IIRC he had a big contract that was looked at as a big negative due to how poorly he had played in Calgary. But what we offered was more then a fair offer, Jurco+Sheahan+2nd, especially when you look at what he was traded for.

Because of the contract, I was glad we didn't get him, but looking at it from hindsight, we wouldn't have had the cap space to re-sign Cleary if we did.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

This roster has too much dead weight. The entire bottom six is almost completely worthless. Keep Tatar and Helm and go from there. Bring up Nyquist and that will be half of your bottom six. (Third line). I don't like Helm centering them, but it's the best option.

Gator cannot be allowed to infect the top six with his incompetence.

Split up the Datsyuk/Z line. It should help Weiss and Franzen.

This team currently has too many passengers. Time to offer draft picks+Sammy/Cleary, so somebody takes them. Keeping the same garbage players for another year has failed miserably.

 

[aLus]

Cleary is not leaving this team this season. Keep dreaming. If anyone gets traded it would be Samuelsson.

 

[Syckle78]

Team that struggles to score goals? Lets trade our promising young players who can score for a D-man!

Defense will be fine once Big E comes back. If the Wings continue to average less than 3 goals a game it won't matter unless Jimmy becomes the best goalie in the World.

It's not the defense part of our defense that is the problem in this scenario. It's the lack of offense on the back end outside of Kronwall. We need someone that can create offense back there at even strength.

Ericsson isn't going to fix that. We need to drop someone dime a dozen like Lashoff and see what we canget from XO or Almquist or make a trade for a Yandle type

 

[Vladdy84]

It's not the defense part of our defense that is the problem in this scenario. It's the lack of offense on the back end outside of Kronwall. We need someone that can create offense back there at even strength.

Ericsson isn't going to fix that. We need to drop someone dime a dozen like Lashoff and see what we canget from XO or Almquist or make a trade for a Yandle type

Blame the coaching then. Kindl and Smith should be more than capable of doing that. Psyche Major Babcock has done so much damage to our young players.

 

[Heaton]

Blame the coaching then. Kindl and Smith should be more than capable of doing that. Psyche Major Babcock has done so much damage to our young players.

That's just another excuse for the players not doing what they should be. If Smith and Kindl aren't good enough, it's a development problem. It's not like these guys have shown much of anything since being up with the team. Skill and talent always comes through when it's actually there. Again, while it's early in Smith's career, I think we're quickly finding out that the players they are, isn't the players we hoped they'd become.

They aren't prevented from doing things on the ice, Smith joins the rush multiple times a game. They should both be playing the PP, but that aside, they need to be able to produce at ES, which they really aren't doing on any consistent basis.

 

[Syckle78]

Blame the coaching then. Kindl and Smith should be more than capable of doing that. Psyche Major Babcock has done so much damage to our young players.

I'm not Babcock's biggest fan by any means. But we're getting to the point where not being used right is becoming a tired and worthless reason for their lack if production. At the end if the day they are getting on the ice and have the opportunity to create their own breaks. This is what we have all asked for in regards to Tatar and Gus. Perhaps Kindl and Smith just aren't as good as we had hoped.

 

[Vladdy84]

That's just another excuse for the players not doing what they should be. If Smith and Kindl aren't good enough, it's a development problem. It's not like these guys have shown much of anything since being up with the team. Skill and talent always comes through when it's actually there. Again, while it's early in Smith's career, I think we're quickly finding out that the players they are, isn't the players we hoped they'd become.

They aren't prevented from doing things on the ice, Smith joins the rush multiple times a game. They should both be playing the PP, but that aside, they need to be able to produce at ES, which they really aren't doing on any consistent basis.

Perhaps that's because the forwards are not that good on this team? Too much useless slow, heavy and unskilled garbage? Give up the puck too easily, don't maintain enough pressure in the opposing teams zone. So the the D is overwhelmed with pressure and just trying not to get scored on?

 

[Heaton]

Perhaps that's because the forwards are not that good on this team? Too much useless slow, heavy and unskilled garbage? Give up the puck too easily, don't maintain enough pressure in the opposing teams zone. So the the D is overwhelmed with pressure and just trying not to get scored on?

Which ones exactly? We're at a point where Bertuzzi is scoring, but obviously Cleary isn't. Samuelsson isn't even playing, so... who are we talking about? I highly doubt if we bench Cleary and put Nyquist in all of our problems are solved.

Sorry, but I keep reading all of these excuses and finger pointing to everyone else except the players. We need our young guys to step up and do something more than they are. We keep waiting for things to happen, like perfect lineups and perfect line combos or whatever. I just don't buy the idea that these lines are preventing our young players from doing impactful things on the ice. If they're good, they should be able to show they are even if it's only 50% of it because it's not the perfect situation.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

That's just another excuse for the players not doing what they should be. If Smith and Kindl aren't good enough, it's a development problem. It's not like these guys have shown much of anything since being up with the team. Skill and talent always comes through when it's actually there. Again, while it's early in Smith's career, I think we're quickly finding out that the players they are, isn't the players we hoped they'd become.

They aren't prevented from doing things on the ice, Smith joins the rush multiple times a game. They should both be playing the PP, but that aside, they need to be able to produce at ES, which they really aren't doing on any consistent basis.

Kindl and Smith led the defense in points in the playoffs.
Kindl's point production was pretty solid last year Why? Because our third line (who he played with most) had puck possession.

I haven't seen any line but the Pavel-Z line show the ability to maintain possession and create pressure-- and give the D a chance to get up the ice and set up in the O zone.

We have too many guys who can't function in the O zone.

Sure, our outlet passes aren't what they were in the day.
But for the most part we've got 3 lines who are more likely to chase the puck around their own end than they are to generate offense.
That means your D wastes all its energy on getting the puck out. It means your D is making transition passes with the zone clogged full of opponents.

When you're rolling 4 lines -- and your O can work their zone, a lot more of your transition comes when the other team has dumped the puck in and gone for a change.

Too often, we're the team that dumps the puck in and goes for the change.

Our D will look a lot better offensively when Babcock wakes up and starts rolling 4 lines.
He's going to have to separate Pavel and Hank. Weiss will be 3rd line center.

He can't keep sabotaging our offensive lines with Abdelkader. Abs needs to go back to the 4th line where he has a place and is useful. Cleary-Weiss-whoever needs to be a solid line and, if not, then Babcock needs to be a ****ing man and bench Cleary.

 

[Flowah]

Cleary-Weiss-whoever needs to be a solid line and, if not, then Babcock needs to be a ****ing man and bench Cleary.

So... we have no hope.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Which ones exactly? We're at a point where Bertuzzi is scoring, but obviously Cleary isn't. Samuelsson isn't even playing, so... who are we talking about? I highly doubt if we bench Cleary and put Nyquist in all of our problems are solved.

Sorry, but I keep reading all of these excuses and finger pointing to everyone else except the players. We need our young guys to step up and do something more than they are. We keep waiting for things to happen, like perfect lineups and perfect line combos or whatever. I just don't buy the idea that these lines are preventing our young players from doing impactful things on the ice. If they're good, they should be able to show they are even if it's only 50% of it because it's not the perfect situation.

Really.
You don't think a Nyquist-Weiss-Tatar line is going to make like immeasurably easier for whoever's on the third pairing?
1) Nyquist is far less likely to turn the puck over and catch you flatfooted at the blueline.
2) Nyquist has some of Pavel's puck thief in him, which helps the D from getting pinned in its own zone.
3) When the O gets set up, Nyquist has passing ability...which means a more effective offense and more touches for everyone in offensive situations.

Did you miss the NHL playoffs last year, when our third line was our ace in the hole? Did you see which D had points as a result?

Did you miss the NHL regular season when Tatar and Andersson showed they could possess the puck ... and that led to points for D like Kindl.

Does Nyquist/Tatar make us great? Hell no.
But it makes us better than we are today.

Just take a look at our secondary scoring and our second PP unit. Check out those stats.
Unless depth D are Bobby Orr types -- how do you expect them them to score?

 

[RedWingsNow*]

It's not the defense part of our defense that is the problem in this scenario. It's the lack of offense on the back end outside of Kronwall. We need someone that can create offense back there at even strength.

Ericsson isn't going to fix that. We need to drop someone dime a dozen like Lashoff and see what we canget from XO or Almquist or make a trade for a Yandle type

Kronwall has 2 even strength points.
He's picks up points when our first PP unit erupts.

Ericsson leads the team with 3 ES points.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg drive the offense.
Which ever D plays with D-Z gets points.

Until we get functioning offense from lines 2 and 3 and the 2nd PP unit, it's lunacy to rip on Smith, Kindl et all for lack of offense.

Separating Pavel and Z should help a bit.
But considering a majority of Kronners' points come on the PP, and there's only One D on the PP1, you're not going to see any other D lighting up the offense.

You just aren't. Whoever is on PP2 might put up decent numbers, like Kindl did last year, if that unit finds some chemistry.

 

[Heaton]

I didn't say it wouldn't make the team better, I said all of our problems wouldn't be solved. Smith and Kindl aren't Nyquist away from being consistent contributers.