Draft pick best case scenario

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,243
14,751
It's funny because people **** on last year's draft.
Vilardi is almost the exact same age as Tkachuk and my guess is that he could go as high as #2 if he was born 20 days later.

I had Vilardi ranked #3 last year, big fan of his, but I don’t think he would crack the top 3 this year.

This draft has really good defenseman and wingers. Drafts are judged by the top end, and last year had no one nearly as good as Dahlin in it. Svechnikov is also a very accomplished prospect as well.

I like the top 10 of this draft of this draft a good amount more than last year. I think we will walk away with a really good player.
 
Last edited:

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,254
4,454
Boston, MA
Best draft scenario in my mind is that Detroit gets the first overall, and then packages Vegas's first, and a 2nd and move up to around 15 and get a second top 15 draft pick.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NDetroitFan

njx9

Registered User
Feb 1, 2016
2,161
340
I'm honestly starting to think that a trade up might be a poor use of resources, given the number of really, really good players who seem to be in rankings free fall. If one of the top 10 guys drops for some reason, sure, but I'm starting to think that we can pick up some really, really good prospects late in the first and early in the second.

I know people have been saying it's a deep draft for a bit, but I'm looking at the names like Merkley/McIsaac/Woo who seemed to be high-to-mid-firsts early, and are now maybe-late-first-at-bests. Even guys some of you have mentioned seem to have fallen rather than risen (Dellandrea/Khovanov). I dunno. I think I'd rather swing for the fences a bunch of times, than trade up for a guy who might have a lower ceiling with less red flags.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
11,000
8,749
I'm honestly starting to think that a trade up might be a poor use of resources, given the number of really, really good players who seem to be in rankings free fall. If one of the top 10 guys drops for some reason, sure, but I'm starting to think that we can pick up some really, really good prospects late in the first and early in the second.

I know people have been saying it's a deep draft for a bit, but I'm looking at the names like Merkley/McIsaac/Woo who seemed to be high-to-mid-firsts early, and are now maybe-late-first-at-bests. Even guys some of you have mentioned seem to have fallen rather than risen (Dellandrea/Khovanov). I dunno. I think I'd rather swing for the fences a bunch of times, than trade up for a guy who might have a lower ceiling with less red flags.
I think that's the most likely scenario, only because I don't see a top 10 guy falling far enough to make a trade like that feasible for both parties.

But hey, if a Dobson or Wahlstrom somehow slides to at least 15, I'm certainly considering it...
 
  • Like
Reactions: njx9

RedWingsfan55

Registered User
Jan 5, 2015
575
93
I'm ok with drafting lil svech, I mean who wouldn't want him on their team ?

My only counter point is elite defenseman are hard to aquire so the only real way to get them are through the draft.

Anyone would welcome a tarasenko on their team, but there is a reason Adam Larsson fetches Taylor hall.

Just because im curious of the elite defenseman in the nhl how many were drafted top 5? Genuine question.

Cause it is my believe that elite defenseman or even just good defenseman are much harder to predict than forwards.


Edit:
Drafting Defensemen

Sort of answer my question.

But subban, 2nd round
Shea Weber 2nd round
McDonough 12th overall
Carlsson 27th overall.


My point is half right. You can still find an elite defenseman in the end of first or 2nd round. You dont need to use our top 5 pick on one. When it's still a cramp shoot.
 
Last edited:

njx9

Registered User
Feb 1, 2016
2,161
340
My point is half right. You can still find an elite defenseman in the end of first or 2nd round. You dont need to use our top 5 pick on one. When it's still a cramp shoot.

Totally. The Wings shouldn't draft anyone before the 6th round because you don't need to use higher picks to find Z or Datsyuk. The fact that you always have a higher likelihood of finding a better player the earlier you draft is, apparently, immaterial because there are a few outliers, right?
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
11,436
7,446
Totally. The Wings shouldn't draft anyone before the 6th round because you don't need to use higher picks to find Z or Datsyuk. The fact that you always have a higher likelihood of finding a better player the earlier you draft is, apparently, immaterial because there are a few outliers, right?

The better point to make is that you want an elite player out of the top 5. You don't want to take a D just because he plays D. If Little Svech is elite and Boqvist is simply very good... Give me Little Svech 100 times out of 100.

If Zadina projects to turn into Laine-lite (maybe not as good as Laine, but a 35+ goal scorer? Sign me up for him instead of Noah Dobson or Quinn Hughes.

You shouldn't reach for a guy who plays D just because he's good and plays D... at least not in the top 5. That should be "is this player the best on the board? Yes or No" The only position it makes sense to avoid with a really high pick based on need is goalie. If you have Carey Price at 25 years old, you're not going to take Connor Hellebuyck up high.

Basically, if you think that Boqvist has a higher ceiling to be a better player than Svech or Zadina, go ahead and take him. But passing on a guy (outside of a goalie) because of position in the top 5 is how you miss out on a superstar.
 

rhef3

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
435
124
Just outside St.louis
Just aquick lookup
Doughty 2nd
Petro 4th
Hedman 2nd
Oel 6th
Larsson 4th
2012 3 in top 5 but busts
Seth jones 1st
Nurse 4th
Ekblad 1st
Hanifin 5th
Provorov 7th
Werenski 8th
Heiskanen 3rd
 

njx9

Registered User
Feb 1, 2016
2,161
340
The better point to make is that you want an elite player out of the top 5. You don't want to take a D just because he plays D. If Little Svech is elite and Boqvist is simply very good... Give me Little Svech 100 times out of 100.

If Zadina projects to turn into Laine-lite (maybe not as good as Laine, but a 35+ goal scorer? Sign me up for him instead of Noah Dobson or Quinn Hughes.

You shouldn't reach for a guy who plays D just because he's good and plays D... at least not in the top 5. That should be "is this player the best on the board? Yes or No" The only position it makes sense to avoid with a really high pick based on need is goalie. If you have Carey Price at 25 years old, you're not going to take Connor Hellebuyck up high.

Basically, if you think that Boqvist has a higher ceiling to be a better player than Svech or Zadina, go ahead and take him. But passing on a guy (outside of a goalie) because of position in the top 5 is how you miss out on a superstar.

I've said previously that if you think Svech or Zadina or Wahlstrom or whoever is truly elite, then you grab them. But if you think Zadina is only a little better than Boqvist, you're making a mistake in not accounting for positional value and need. My mind is on a different draft today, so apologies for mixing sports, but this comes up all the time when people talk about the NFL draft. If you keep ignoring QB because a WR (or whatever) grades out 1% higher on your scale, you're not going to win many games in January. If the Wings "keep" (given last year's position, I realize this would be the first year this really occurred) passing on defenders because there are slightly better wingers on the board, they'll never win a game in April.

I also don't think it can be overstated that this team is unlikely to ever find a 1D if it doesn't spend premium picks on the position. Just saying "it's possible" isn't particularly useful, especially when the only evidence we have shows an ability to find lots and lots of capable wingers all over the draft board.

I'd finally add that one position takes time to develop (typically), and the other doesn't. If Svech is basically Laine, that's certainly an asset you want. You just have to realize that he's going to be on a huge 2nd contract before you have a defenseman capable of making a breakout pass if you take him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jkutswings

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,243
14,751
My point is half right. You can still find an elite defenseman in the end of first or 2nd round. You dont need to use our top 5 pick on one. When it's still a cramp shoot.

You can... but your odds are terrible.

Drafting defenseman top 10 isn't as reliable as drafting forwards top 10, but it's more reliable than anything else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jkutswings

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
Just aquick lookup
Doughty 2nd
Petro 4th
Hedman 2nd
Oel 6th
Larsson 4th
2012 3 in top 5 but busts
Seth jones 1st
Nurse 4th
Ekblad 1st
Hanifin 5th
Provorov 7th
Werenski 8th
Heiskanen 3rd
Yeah still pretty first round heavy, even top 10 heavy.
 

RedWingsfan55

Registered User
Jan 5, 2015
575
93
The better point to make is that you want an elite player out of the top 5. You don't want to take a D just because he plays D. If Little Svech is elite and Boqvist is simply very good... Give me Little Svech 100 times out of 100.

If Zadina projects to turn into Laine-lite (maybe not as good as Laine, but a 35+ goal scorer? Sign me up for him instead of Noah Dobson or Quinn Hughes.

You shouldn't reach for a guy who plays D just because he's good and plays D... at least not in the top 5. That should be "is this player the best on the board? Yes or No" The only position it makes sense to avoid with a really high pick based on need is goalie. If you have Carey Price at 25 years old, you're not going to take Connor Hellebuyck up high.

Basically, if you think that Boqvist has a higher ceiling to be a better player than Svech or Zadina, go ahead and take him. But passing on a guy (outside of a goalie) because of position in the top 5 is how you miss out on a superstar.


This is precisely my point. If we get number 1 pick we take dahlin because he is the best in the draft. Not because "we need a d".

Even though defenseman are harder to project than forwards.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
11,436
7,446
I've said previously that if you think Svech or Zadina or Wahlstrom or whoever is truly elite, then you grab them. But if you think Zadina is only a little better than Boqvist, you're making a mistake in not accounting for positional value and need. My mind is on a different draft today, so apologies for mixing sports, but this comes up all the time when people talk about the NFL draft. If you keep ignoring QB because a WR (or whatever) grades out 1% higher on your scale, you're not going to win many games in January. If the Wings "keep" (given last year's position, I realize this would be the first year this really occurred) passing on defenders because there are slightly better wingers on the board, they'll never win a game in April.

I also don't think it can be overstated that this team is unlikely to ever find a 1D if it doesn't spend premium picks on the position. Just saying "it's possible" isn't particularly useful, especially when the only evidence we have shows an ability to find lots and lots of capable wingers all over the draft board.

I'd finally add that one position takes time to develop (typically), and the other doesn't. If Svech is basically Laine, that's certainly an asset you want. You just have to realize that he's going to be on a huge 2nd contract before you have a defenseman capable of making a breakout pass if you take him.

That's a false equivalency though. QB in NFL is like goalie in NHL but WAY WAY more important. Positional scarcity affects the draft way more than anything. If all goalies weren't kind of the same guy +/- 25 goals and so reliant on a defense, you'd see a lot more teams rushing after them too. Ignoring a QB is kind of like ignoring a bonafide #1C or passing on Dahlin. They touch the ball/puck the most. They affect the game the most.

And you do account for positional need. But when guys are seemingly in the same grouping in what scouts are saying (i.e. they seem to lump Dobson, Hughes, and Boqvist together to where they almost seem interchangeable) while putting the pairing of Svech and Zadina above them in competition for the 2nd and 3rd spots, it is kind of hard for me to be upset about taking a winger over the D. If it were like last year and Heiskanen is basically "this guy is #3 behind Hischier and Patrick"? That's different.

I just don't think you focus on "need" with a top 5 pick, particularly when you are a team like the Red Wings and have plenty of needs. They need D and they need scoring and they need consistent goaltending. When you're rebuilding, you go best talent. Adam Boqvist scores no more points for me in terms of wanting to draft him by being a defenseman. He scores points with me because he's a very skilled player who will be an asset. If guys are equal in my mind, positional need is a tiebreaker, at least this high in the draft. I mean, really, to be competitive again, they'll need at minimum 2 or 3 top 6 forwards to hit and pretty much a whole new top 4 D. So landing Boqvist doesn't stop their need for a D. Landing Svech or Zadina doesn't stop their need for scorers.

But as it lands, what I'd like to see is the following by what pick they have.

1st - Dahlin
2nd - Svech
3rd - Zadina
5th - Boqvist (unless 4th)
6th - Hughes
7th - Dobson
8th - Wahlstrom/Tkachuk

At this point in the rebuild, they need talent. They don't need to be locked into "it needs to be a D or a C or whatever". They need elite talent. They have one guy who really has that potential and about two to three who have All-Star potential.
 

DetroitRed

Crashes the Crease
Apr 7, 2013
2,871
951
Detroit
I think we could see a team picking 3-4 reach a little for a defender. Maybe it will even be the Wings picking 3rd who do that. Or maybe they'll do that later in the draft if a winger falls. I don't imagine the Wings would pass on Andrei Svechnikov at second pick or at any point later, but I think Zadina and Tkachuk are a tier below Andrei Svechnikov.

If you're the Wings finishing 5th worst, you've probably scouted Hughes, Bouchard, and Boqvist more than you've scouted anyone else just because of where the general consensus has them ranked. You've maybe even scouted Dobson harder than you've scouted Zadina for that same reason. Plus, the wings come into this draft with centers and defenders as top wants. It could happen.
 

HisNoodliness

The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Jun 29, 2014
3,671
2,043
Toronto
I agree with the sentiment here but that you go BPA, and if there's an elite winger you take him over the very good defenseman. However I don't think that's the situation this year. Is Svechnikov a step above the D, yes. But I personally don't think Zadina, Tkachuk or Wahlstrom are. If I have 3rd overall I'm probably taking Boqvist and I don't think that's a reach.
 
  • Like
Reactions: njx9

lilidk

Registered User
Mar 4, 2008
9,808
3,568
I agree with the sentiment here but that you go BPA, and if there's an elite winger you take him over the very good defenseman. However I don't think that's the situation this year. Is Svechnikov a step above the D, yes. But I personally don't think Zadina, Tkachuk or Wahlstrom are. If I have 3rd overall I'm probably taking Boqvist and I don't think that's a reach.
Have you seen Boqvist at juniors, he should be forward ,then I like him. If we got d , he should be very good at that position first.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
11,436
7,446
That's what we need, less offensive defensemen.

lilidk is just saying we shouldn't jump at a rich man's Ryan Sproul. Sproul was an offensive defenseman, but defense was completely optional with him. We should get a talented offensive defenseman who sets up his offensive game through his defensively responsible play. We are at worst 8th OA. If there is a D we are picking who is all offense... he better ****ing be Mike Green or Brent Burns and scoring 70-80 points a year if he's going to be garbage defensively.

It's not that we don't need offensive defensemen... we need offensive defensemen who aren't 100% liabilities on defense. I don't think that should be a mindblowing ask from a potential top 5 pick... that he's just not garbage in his own zone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NickH8

Ezekial

Cheap Pizza, Bad Hockey
Sponsor
Nov 22, 2015
22,728
15,394
Chicago
It's like his Svechnikov "Russian attitude problem" assertions. The kid (Boqvist) has all the tools and plenty of time, he'll be 18 his entire d+1, I feel it's making mountains out of mole hills.
I think he's been a lot more impressive of a prospect in his draft year than Ryan Sproul, but okay. If Ryan Sproul and Brendan Smith are gonna scare you away from talented top 10 offensive defenseman prospects I'm not going to let them stop you.

I don't mean "you" specifically tsween
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: njx9

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
15,040
7,250
here's hoping those rosary beads are the same ones that managed to convince Holland to keep bringing Cleary back all those years
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
I had Vilardi ranked #3 last year, big fan of his, but I don’t think he would crack the top 3 this year.

This draft has really good defenseman and wingers. Drafts are judged by the top end, and last year had no one nearly as good as Dahlin in it. Svechnikov is also a very accomplished prospect as well.

I like the top 10 of this draft of this draft a good amount more than last year. I think we will walk away with a really good player.

Centers are easier to project and typically elite centers are among the most valuable players in hockey.

It seems like the NHL teams are getting better about drafting defenseman. But I think they're harder to project, because, in general, their further away from their peak.
 

Sparty

Registered User
Oct 2, 2015
1,217
759
I want Wahlstrom. I know this team needs a Dman, but I think we already have some prospects in the pipeline from last year's picks, and we can snag a couple more Dmen with our next three picks. Wahlstrom will spend next year at Harvard, come in and be our Mitch Marner to next year's Auston Matthews (Jack Hughes).
 

HisNoodliness

The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Jun 29, 2014
3,671
2,043
Toronto
Have you seen Boqvist at juniors, he should be forward ,then I like him. If we got d , he should be very good at that position first.
Honestly I feel like his defensive deficiencies are overstated. He's a little small and he definitely is best on offense, but I feel like people just assume he's bad at defense because he's small and good at offense.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad