Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part II

[ManUtdTobbe]

I think, and it has been echoed by others, that where this draft is weaker is once you get out of the top 10 or so. That said, if the Rangers get a top 7 pick (let's say 3-7), unless Clark gets cute, they will get an excellent upper echelon player.

That's my point though, i think the top 10 doesn't stack up except for Hughes, Kakko and Byram. I'm of the opinion that it's overrated because of the fact that it's center heavy and centers are overhyped in general. Zegras might be the exception to me, he even feels underrated.

 

[I Eat Crow]

The problem with Zegras (there is none really) is that he's being overshadowed by sexier picks in Hughes, Boldy, and Turcotte. He's solidly an early teens pick for me. He may even crack the top 10 when all is said and done. He's just such a good all situations player, but I'm not sure if he has any plus skills that will make him a top line forward at the NHL level.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I never do though, i was the one defending the 2017 draft from the get go, saying it was actually strong. This one doesn't stack up imo, not at this moment atleast.

2017 draft didn't have the superstar talent at the top but depth wise it's much stronger than the 2019 draft.

 

[Edge]

I feel pretty comfortable with the first round of the 2019 draft, I think there’s a good dip afterwards though.

I like last year’s overall first round talent depth better, but like this years top 10 more.

I think the forward group is a bit more diverse at the top of his year’s draft, and I personally like Byram’s NHL-style game better than last year’s post-Dahlin defensemen.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I feel pretty comfortable with the first round of the 2019 draft, I think there’s a good dip afterwards though.

I like last year’s overall first round talent depth better, but like this years top 10 more.

I think the forward group is a bit more diverse at the top of his year’s draft, and I personally like Byram’s NHL-style game better than last year’s post-Dahlin defensemen.

If you want to follow the Nashville model, thats the guy to take.

Just need to trade Staal for Parayko after...

 

[Edge]

If you want to follow the Nashville model, thats the guy to take.

One of the traits I value in a prospect is how well his game potentially translates to the NHL.

Some guys don’t necessarily post eye-popping stat lines in the lower levels, but there isn’t as big of a dip in their production as they move up to the higher levels.

Byram plays a game that has the potential to translate very well at the higher levels.

 

[Ghost of jas]

ISS now has Byram at 3.

 

[Edge]

ISS now has Byram at 3.

As they should.

The kid is the real deal and a hell of a prospect, a legit potential first pairing, number 1 defenseman.

This is the type of kid who has the potential to play 25-30 mins for a playoff team. That’s the ceiling. And he’s one of the younger players at the top of the draft.

I know everyone wants a center, and I get that. But I’d be elated to get Byram. ELATED.

 

[Joey Bones]

We say this every December, and then the U18s happen in the Spring and suddenly there are 60 guys who could be first rounders

Facts

 

[Joey Bones]

Shout out to @Kshahdoo for bringing his name up in the Kravtsov thread, but there is a kid from Kazakhstan that's been progressing nicely as a 1st year overager. Valeri Orekhov has been with the KHL's Barys Astana so far this year posting positive numbers (21GP, 3 + 2=5, 8PIM, plus-2), ATM. Also has a WJC track record spanning 2 years in a row, as well as playing at the WC's this past spring. Just did some research on him and saw some video. He's got very good gap control and balance. Very good legs for a defender.

I wonder if it's due to a lack of scouting, but this kid seems to be turning it on at the right time. He will be playing again for Kazakhstan in a few weeks for this year's WJC. Definitely one to keep an eye on!!

 

[Edge]

The thing with Byram is that it’s not just the offense. Yeah the kid is on a 20+ goal, 60+ pace, but I’m not even sure the offense is what I like the most.

The kid controls the pace and flow of the game and can do so in all three zones. He is mobile, he anticipates the play well, and he’s a freakin smart player. The hockey sense is very high and there is a noticeable gap between him and every other defenseman I’ve seen heading into this draft.

IMO he is the second defenseman off the board in 2018 if he was a year older. He scores high in a lot of areas. He has the high end skill this board craves, and the hard working, built for the NHL traits we aspire for in guys like Howden and Andersson. He’s a great blend of both worlds.

But for as good as he is, there is a lot of growth potential in him still. You’re looking at a kid with a summer birthday who is still getting bigger, stronger and gaining experience.

You get him and Miller to reach even 85 percent of their ability, and you’ve got a potential scenario where you can have either one of them on the ice to cover an entire 60 minute game.

Trust me, this board would fall hard for him if he was our pick.

 

[True Blue]

That's my point though, i think the top 10 doesn't stack up except for Hughes, Kakko and Byram. I'm of the opinion that it's overrated because of the fact that it's center heavy and centers are overhyped in general. Zegras might be the exception to me, he even feels underrated.

I disagree. Podklozin, Dach, Cozens, Boldy can stand to anyone in last year's top 10. Then there are the likes of Newhook and Turcotte.

 

[True Blue]

I know everyone wants a center, and I get that. But I’d be elated to get Byram. ELATED.

Been saying that for a while. Then to couple your thoughts of pretending that both he and Miller hit their ceilings or come close to it, the idea of having one of them out on the ice virtually at all times is very exciting. Much like when Chara and Redden were out for the 'Sens at all times. Throw in the DeAngelos, Pionks, Keanes, Lindgrens or Hajeks of the world, and one could really have something.

 

[offdacrossbar]

byram is gonna be a good one no doubt.

we have what seems to be a plethora - god i love that word... of young dmen.

ADA
pionky
brady shay
hajek
lindy
keane
miller
etc.

add another ? sure. if hes the BPA when we step up, absolutely.

so then i wonder how that helps us with our problem in the middle and also how does that help us replace kevin hayes because when hes gone, like it or not, there will be a huge hole there.

are we ok with just next man up aka, howden or chytl or are we then looking elsewhere for that true elite pivot ?

i mean i get the rebuild, sell, avoid 6/6 for hayes need more picks thing, but whats the plan then ?

what if we take a dman 1st and then - because we all know its going to happen, another goalie too high, and then a couple forwards who are talented but yrs away and dont address that lack of elite center man we've never had.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Turcotte when he falls to one of the picks we get for hayesarello

 

[offdacrossbar]

im still watching rapheal lavoie. hes a kid that impressed me last season. hes the guy i think will be a perfect mid 1st pick when we step up and all the other guys are gone already.

that size, skating and righty shot make me think theres alot more there.

reminds me in many ways of a young... ok, im gonna say it. rick nash- when he was good.

kids got enormous upside another kid that i think has a shoot first mentality.

 

[Leetch3]

byram is gonna be a good one no doubt.

we have what seems to be a plethora - god i love that word... of young dmen.

ADA
pionky
brady shay
hajek
lindy
keane
miller
etc.

add another ? sure. if hes the BPA when we step up, absolutely.

so then i wonder how that helps us with our problem in the middle and also how does that help us replace kevin hayes because when hes gone, like it or not, there will be a huge hole there.

are we ok with just next man up aka, howden or chytl or are we then looking elsewhere for that true elite pivot ?

i mean i get the rebuild, sell, avoid 6/6 for hayes need more picks thing, but whats the plan then ?

what if we take a dman 1st and then - because we all know its going to happen, another goalie too high, and then a couple forwards who are talented but yrs away and dont address that lack of elite center man we've never had.

agreed that we've got some nice defensive depth and its very exciting when you think about what it looked like 2 years ago. but i still question if we've got top pair elite talent on the blueline. everyone is super excited about miller's upside but he's still years away. in many ways I feel that we are in very similar situations with both our blueline and forwards right now. blueline has good talent and depth but could use that one elite guy to really put the group over the top and the forwards have good talent and depth but are missing that one elite guy to put the group over the top...

those are basically the 2 key pieces we are missing the elite dman and the elite center. which of course are the 2 hardest things to find...so if you can get one you take it and do backflips. you likely aren't getting both at the same time, but if you continue adding depth we'll hopefully have the assets to make a move to get the other

 

[brians1128]

Turcotte when he falls to one of the picks we get for hayesarello

Im really hoping your right. His injury really allowed Zegras and Boldy to jump ahead of him it seems.

 

[Edge]

I like the group we have on defense, but Byram shoots right up to the top of that list pretty easily. The only kid who would even be in the conversation in terms of upside/odds is Miller. He's that good.

Granted, taking Byram doesn't solve our center concerns. But I don't rule out the possibility of dealing from a position of strength from our defense and our organizational depth if we get to that point.

In an ideal world, the BPA also fills a need. But in situations where it doesn't quite align that way, I'm okay building high-end depth and potentially filling other areas as we move forward.

As for Lavoie, I continue to be lukewarm on him.

I think he's a player who further along physically, and older than some of his peers and that is what is driving him at the junior levels. He looks like a support player to me. Not a bad support player by any stretch, but I don't know if I see a high-end support player either. For me, there is more intriguing talent in the top 20 or so picks. For a kid who is already 18, and missed last year's draft by a week, I'm not really blown away by what I am seeing. In some cases, he is 9 or 10 months older than some of the other talents slated for the first round of this draft.

My ideal "dream" scenario would be to grab a kid like Byram at 5 or 6, and then have one of the forward falls into the teens (Newhook, Turcotte, Zegras, etc.).

With the way this draft is slated, I would move two firsts in the 20s to get into the teens. In an ideal world, we have four firsts to work with, so moving two picks to move up would still leave us with 3 first rounders. But again, that's the "daydream" scenario.

 

[Edge]

I disagree. Podklozin, Dach, Cozens, Boldy can stand to anyone in last year's top 10. Then there are the likes of Newhook and Turcotte.

Like I said, I personally like my top 10 for this year a little more than last year. Beyond that, I think 2018 has more intriguing or more developed possibilities at the same point, but I'm not sure the gap is monumental.

I do think that beyond the first, 2018 is clearly better.

So, for me:

1-10 (edge 2019)
11-15 (slight edge 2018)
15-31 (clear edge 2018)
Beyond the first round (definite edge 2018)

All things being equal and somewhat realistic, I'd be very happy to be sitting at the 5 spot and the 15 spot in this draft --- even at the cost of a couple of firsts and/or some later picks).

 

[offdacrossbar]

I like the group we have on defense, but Byram shoots right up to the top of that list pretty easily. The only kid who even be in the conversation in terms of upside/odds is Miller. He's that good.

Granted, taking Byram doesn't solve our center concerns. But I don't rule out the possibility of dealing from a position of strength from our defense and our organizational depth if we get to that point.

In an ideal world, the BPA also fills a need. But in situations where it doesn't quite align that way, I'm okay building high-end depth and potentially filling other areas as we move forward.

As for Lavoie, I continue to be lukewarm on him.

I think he's a player who further along physically, and older than some of his peers and that is what is driving him at the junior levels. He looks like a support player to me. Not a bad support player by any stretch, but I don't know if I see a high-end support player either. For me, there is more intriguing talent in the top 20 or so picks. For a kid who is already 18, and missed last year's draft by a week, I'm not really blown away by what I am seeing. In some cases, he is 9 or 10 months older than some of the other talents slated for the first round of this draft.

My ideal "dream" scenario would be to grab a kid like Byram at 5 or 6, and then have one of the forward falls into the teens (Newhook, Turcotte, Zegras, etc.).

With the way this draft is slated, I would move two firsts in the 20s to get into the teens. In an ideal world, we have four firsts to work with, so moving two picks to move up would still leave us with 3 first rounders. But again, that's the "daydream" scenario.

you subtract hayes and zucc from this roster and add this years draft and last years draft and all the kids weve acquired in last years fire sale and im not being all that much to be excited about the next few yrs.

maybe panarin ?
maybe krav comes over and makes an impact right away?
maybe miller in 2 yrs ?
maybe chytl takes a step to become a 1c?

lots of maybe and hope sos

replacing hayes is going to be tougher than we think.

adding another young stud dman prospect is great.

at some point, unless were willing to wait 3-5 to be competitive again or make some bold moves to trade for high end nhl ready talent now, henrik will retire and we will still be picking 10OA.

im sorry, i still dont see much light at the end of this tunnel picking byram and turcotte.

 

[Edge]

you subtract hayes and zucc from this roster and add this years draft and last years draft and all the kids weve acquired in last years fire sale and im not being all that much to be excited about the next few yrs.

maybe panarin ?
maybe krav comes over and makes an impact right away?
maybe miller in 2 yrs ?
maybe chytl takes a step to become a 1c?

lots of maybe and hope sos

replacing hayes is going to be tougher than we think.

adding another young stud dman prospect is great.

at some point, unless were willing to wait 3-5 to be competitive again or make some bold moves to trade for high end nhl ready talent now, henrik will retire and we will still be picking 10OA.

im sorry, i still dont see much light at the end of this tunnel picking byram and turcotte.

I think it looks a little more dim when viewed through the context that there's not going to be options beyond Panarin, but there always are --- we just don't know what they are yet. So yes, there will be options in 2020, or 2021. Options that, right now, people would look at your strangely if you suggested.

I don't really know what to tell you if you the current crop of youngsters doesn't do much for you though. It's a pretty solid lineup considering that 60% percent of it hasn't even been with the organization for 9 months. In and of itself, you're 100 percent correct, it's not going to be enough. But I think it's a very good start. And that's important to remember, we are much closer to the start than end point. Heck, we're not even that close to mid-point yet.

But to your last point, I don't think the average poster on here really has good handle on how long this process will require --- even if everything falls into place.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think it looks a little more dim when viewed through the context that there's not going to be options beyond Panarin, but there always are --- we just don't know what they are yet. So yes, there will be options in 2020, or 2021. Options that, right now, people would look at your strangely if you suggested.

I don't really know what to tell you if you the current crop of youngsters doesn't do much for you though. It's a pretty solid lineup considering that 60% percent of it hasn't even been with the organization for 9 months. In and of itself, you're 100 percent correct, it's not going to be enough. But I think it's a very good start. And that's important to remember, we are much closer to the start than end point. Heck, we're not even that close to mid-point yet.

But to your last point, I don't think the average poster on here really has good handle on how long this process will require --- even if everything falls into place.

Seems like we have this discussion on a weekly basis.

 

[Edge]

Right now, as a snapshot, I think we're doing well for this point in time.

Things can get better, get worse, we can take leaps forward, or slip considerably. But right now, as of Dec. 7, 2018, we're showing promise, potential, and growth.

We still have the 2019 TDL, and the 2019 draft, and many miles ahead of us on our journey. But barring a situation where we won the lottery last year and this year, and walked away with both Dahlin and Hughes, I don't really know if there was a ton of wiggle room to be substantially further along.

It's kind of like when people wanted us to be stripped down even further heading into this season, I'm not sure that was realistic without trading certain guys for pennies on the dollar, and banishing some young kids to the AHL.

 

[True Blue]

All things being equal and somewhat realistic, I'd be very happy to be sitting at the 5 spot and the 15 spot in this draft --- even at the cost of a couple of firsts and/or some later picks).

Could not agree more. I think it is imperative that Gorton brings in more first round picks.