Salary Cap: Dr StrangeDubas: "Defense sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid defense, Sully."

[Ryder71]

I'm wondering about Reilly Smith, getting him for a 3rd round in theory was a fantastic move, however with our cap constraints and though hindsight is 20/20, would it have been better to sign a guy like Tatar for far less (say 2.0 mil for two years) and have three mil in cap space?

Probably not, but in this flat cap era that three mil at or near the trade deadline would offer us a lot of possibilities.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, Rackell and Smith are fine, but they're not carrying anything by themselves, or possibly even together. And these are unquestionably the best linemates Malkin has had for a long time.

 

[PaulD]

Come play off time this one us no Brainer - Smith over Tatar all day long.

Having said that - under Sullivan Smith will not be as proficient as he was on the Knights.

Zucker out - Smith in. Are the Pens any better up front with that switch?

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm wondering about Reilly Smith, getting him for a 3rd round in theory was a fantastic move, however with our cap constraints and though hindsight is 20/20, would it have been better to sign a guy like Tatar for far less (say 2.0 mil for two years) and have three mil in cap space?

Probably not, but in this flat cap era that three mil at or near the trade deadline would offer us a lot of possibilities.

This is sort of the perinnial question, no? Whether it's better to get a guy who, while having warts, has some sort of potential top 6 offensive talent, or whether it's better to get a guy who is more expensive, but less of an overall offensive talent.

Come play off time this one us no Brainer - Smith over Tatar all day long.

Having said that - under Sullivan Smith will not be as proficient as he was on the Knights.

Zucker out - Smith in. Are the Pens any better up front with that switch?

Yeah, I feel like it's been a long time since we saw a guy come in here and have a career year. I could be wrong, but I don't think so?

 

[Ryder71]

Come play off time this one us no Brainer - Smith over Tatar all day long.

Having said that - under Sullivan Smith will not be as proficient as he was on the Knights.

Zucker out - Smith in. Are the Pens any better up front with that switch?

But my argument and again I like that move! But it wouldn't just be for Tatar it would be an additional three mil in cap space. With that amount you could likely acquire a similar caliber player near or at the deadline. And in the iterim actually ice a team with a full compliment of players.

 

[K Fleur]

DOC might score 10 goals this year if he gets to play on Malkin’s line every game.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Come play off time this one us no Brainer - Smith over Tatar all day long.

Having said that - under Sullivan Smith will not be as proficient as he was on the Knights.

Zucker out - Smith in. Are the Pens any better up front with that switch?

A lot of people seem to think Zucker will be missed. And he did have a nice season last year.

But I think it's a bit of a wash even if they are different players. Zucker has a better overall motor and tenacity and maybe a better shot. Smith has a better overall offensive IQ. People love to talk about what a hero Zucker was but it seemed like a ton of OZ possessions would end with him doing something stupid or puzzling.

 

[PaulD]

Geno is definitely not elite anymore. I'm not even sure Sid is, and I think Sid is a clear step above where Geno's at nowadays. It is what it is, these dudes are approaching 40. /shrug

That's not to say either are bad, let me just get that out there because people love to be psychotically parasocial in their attachment of these dudes. But they're not the absolute class of the sport anymore.

yet in Boston they have the best regular season team of all time falling off the map because they are losing two "dudes approaching 40"

Sid and Gino are major players still.
But they can't carry Poor goaltending , poor coaching , and a bad bottom six ......
as has already been proven ......season after season .
Sullivan has lost his last five play off series , followed up with a complete miss.

Would love to have seen this year's team with an upgrade in net and a fresh coaching staff

A lot of people seem to think Zucker will be missed. And he did have a nice season last year.

But I think it's a bit of a wash even if they are different players. Zucker has a better overall motor and tenacity and maybe a better shot. Smith has a better overall offensive IQ. People love to talk about what a hero Zucker was but it seemed like a ton of OZ possessions would end with him doing something stupid or puzzling.

Zucker is Nobody's hero .....and neither is Smith. At best its a wash.

 

[Ryder71]

I think having a say 2.0 mil in cap space now, at the deadline equates to a 5.5 mil or more.

 

[PaulD]

But my argument and again I like that move! But it wouldn't just be for Tatar it would be an additional three mil in cap space. With that amount you could likely acquire a similar caliber player near or at the deadline. And in the iterim actually ice a team with a full compliment of players.

good point.

Pens will have to get used to that- Dubas

 

[Ryder71]

This is sort of the perinnial question, no? Whether it's better to get a guy who, while having warts, has some sort of potential top 6 offensive talent, or whether it's better to get a guy who is more expensive, but less of an overall offensive talent.


Yeah, I feel like it's been a long time since we saw a guy come in here and have a career year. I could be wrong, but I don't think so?

My primary concern is building more quality depth. As I have maintained we need more scoring threats to take some burden off of Sid and Geno. Would I rather have One RS or possibly two TT's? Or one TT and the possibility of a RS player at or near the deadline? Just spitballin.

 

[HandshakeLine]

My primary concern is building more quality depth. As I have maintained we need more scoring threats to take some burden off of Sid and Geno. Would I rather have One RS or possibly two TT's? Or one TT and the possibility of a RS player at or near the deadline? Just spitballin.

I think it's a good question.

Ideally, I'd argue for less of the RS/Ricky Raks/Bryan Rust mold of player and to bring in at least another different kind of winger (ideally more physical or at least with some sort of different quality to set them apart in the top 6). But also I realize that this is not what the team wants.

 

[Ryder71]

DOC might score 10 goals this year if he gets to play on Malkin’s line every game.

In a top six role that's easily not enough. I like DOC I think he could be one of our best forwards in the bottom six.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The biggest thing with 71 that Pens fans that pay attention will always know that those outside the circle will not are, frankly, intangible type stuff. He was absolutely good enough that he could have wanted to go elsewhere and command, snickering as I say this, John Tavares money to be 1C. He decided instead to just hang around here and be a goofy affable oaf and play his ass off and be best friends with the guy ahead of him.

Easily 1 of the most underappreciated Pitt sports figures in the past generation

 

[Son Goku]

Easily 1 of the most underappreciated Pitt sports figures in the past generation

I know one person who appreciates him thoroughly..

 

[tom_servo]

Yeah, well, I, and quite a few others, were saying exactly that after losing to the Flyers in the playoffs in 2012. What do we know? Well, other than the fact the Flyers won't win another Cup for at least another 25 years which is as immutable as sunrise and sunset...

Yeah, and I didn't understand the panic when we were still in an insanely lucky situation.

We won't be after this era. We'll be a regular entrant with normal stars here and there. A workingman's team with regular ambitions. Chipping into the 401k for a simple retirement down the line. Happy to have a roof over our heads.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

People have this narrative that Geno has fallen off more than Sid but the facts don't support it. If you take into account 1) Sid's empty net points, 2) the fact that Sid gets 2 more min of ice time per game, and 3) quality of linemates, there really is not any gap in production between the two. My point is both Geno and Sid are still elite.

Zucker was better than Guentzel at 5v5 last year. Geno got Rakell plenty. He also faced weaker competition than L1.
Last year was not a season we can complain about Malkin's conditions. His lines should have had bigger net positives in goal differential.
The only thing Malkin actually did better than Crosby last year is the PP.

All that being said, it's Sid we're talking about. The bar was high. Geno still had a great season. He's just not elite anymore. He couldn't defend and he couldn't put up 100+ points, even during an explosive scoring year for the league, while playing all 82 games. If you're not a top 10 Center, how you can be called elite?

It's not disrespectful to Geno to acknowledge reality. That term is reserved for being among the very best. Asking him to be that at 36 is too much.

 

[Pancakes]

It wouldn't surprise me if our powerplay really clicks and Sid and Geno put up 100 points again. Unlikely I think, but when you're adding an Erik Karlsson to the mix you never know. Sid was already close to it without him.

 

[chethejet]

Smith will help with some physical play and fitting Malkin as to playing off his strengths. Rust hopefully has his speed and rive especially in the harder areas. Third line is problematic.

 

[PensandCaps]

Your example of a "two-way player" you'd take over Malkin is a defenseman who outscored Brian f***ing Dumoulin by 2 points last year.

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I'll also take the guy who scored 83 points despite being flanked by wingers who couldn't crack 48 points over a guy who couldn't outscore Tyler Toffoli on his own line.

Slavin, one of the best #1 Dmen in the league, has impacted the game more than Malkin for a few years now.

Toffoli isn't a selke defender, Toffoli putting up the career numbers be did is actually a positive for Lindholm. Shows he makes his mates better with his 2 way game.

 

[The Old Master]

It wouldn't surprise me if our powerplay really clicks and Sid and Geno put up 100 points again. Unlikely I think, but when you're adding an Erik Karlsson to the mix you never know. Sid was already close to it without him.

i'm sure sully will do everything in his power to discourage that

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I'm wondering about Reilly Smith, getting him for a 3rd round in theory was a fantastic move, however with our cap constraints and though hindsight is 20/20, would it have been better to sign a guy like Tatar for far less (say 2.0 mil for two years) and have three mil in cap space?

Probably not, but in this flat cap era that three mil at or near the trade deadline would offer us a lot of possibilities.

No, Smith has been the better player and also is a lot more impactful in the playoffs. Tatar would probably be benched here by MS

 

[3ladesof5teel]

A lot of people seem to think Zucker will be missed. And he did have a nice season last year.

But I think it's a bit of a wash even if they are different players. Zucker has a better overall motor and tenacity and maybe a better shot. Smith has a better overall offensive IQ. People love to talk about what a hero Zucker was but it seemed like a ton of OZ possessions would end with him doing something stupid or puzzling.

Zucker will be missed. There isn't anyone like him in the lineup and he did bring more than just his scoring and career year.

Is it irreplaceable......no. But no doubt he will be missed.

 

[Ryder71]

No, Smith has been the better player and also is a lot more impactful in the playoffs. Tatar would probably be benched here by MS

Again, to be clear I liked getting Smith very much. However, you're looking as to who does what in the playoffs. We need to make the post season first. So as to how someone plays in the playoffs, lets get their first because it's far from certain.

My point was could we find a similar caliber player and then have flexibility at or near the deadline with the cap space we could garner.

As constructed we have a grand total of Six top Six caliber players, I'd prefer seven. And the way Rust has been, I'm not so sure he wouldn't slip to the third line if there was another viable option. At minimum it would make our top six wingers more accountable. And in that process provide quality scoring depth for the third line.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Panarin has a 100+ point pace over the last 4 years.

Malkin is still a great player but 2023 Malkin isn't 2013 Malkin. He's probably like the 20th ranked center in the league at this point.

Pararin's annual disappearance in the playoffs should play a larger role in a subjective ranking like this, imho.