Salary Cap: Dr StrangeDubas: "Defense sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid defense, Sully."

[Zirakzigil]

Sully: Uh, Kyle, Kyle, listen... tell me, tell me, Kyle. When did you first... become... well, develop this theory?
Dr StrangeDubas: [somewhat embarassed] Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, Sully, during the physical act of player trade.
Sully: Hmm.
Dr StrangeDubas: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence.
Sully: Hmm.
Dr StrangeDubas: I can assure you it has not recurred, Sully. Defense uh... defense sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid defense, Sully.
Sully: No.
Dr StrangeDubas: But I... I do deny them my essence.

Apparently this thread is now about MAF, I guess feel free to talk about his legacy here.

Click to read more...

 

[Zirakzigil]

MAF is def not a top 3 goalie of all time but he is in the Cap era. I've said it before but it's not a coincidence that the majority of his struggles were the 5 years of Bylsma. He immediately bounced back after DB was fired then immediately went on a historic PO run in year 1 with Vegas and won a Vezina.

I would love to see Fleury’s numbers playing behind arguably the greatest defensive core of all time for 10 years.

Fleury is 100% making the HOF, the debate is whether he'll be a first ballot HOF or not.

He's going to finish his NHL career 2nd in regular season wins and 3rd in playoff wins among goalies all time. He has 3 cups, 5 cup appearances, a Jennings and a Vezina. That is absolutely a HOF resume, there isn't an argument against that whatsoever.

Fleury is this generation's Grant Fuhr. Fuhr was a first ballot HOFer.

In his peak years, yes. Not throughout his whole career. Same can be said about Hasek. Nobody thought Hasek would become one of the best goalies ever when Jagr and Mario were dunking on him in '92.

Brodeur sustained clutch play longer than any goalie ever. A true stud from his rookie year. Highlight saves until his retirement.

Like i said, the big 3 are all on the same level. They're all very special guys. It comes down to preference. I just don't feel like Roy or Hasek calmed the game down (especially over the course of a playoff series) like Marty did.

Flower is a HOF lock. Yes. But he's not in the Brodeur/Hasek/Roy discussion, not even close. It's a joke to put him next to those names.


Exactly. The Fuhr comparison is spot on.

I am idly curious as to what people think should be the standard for the Hall of Fame if they think Fleury maybe shouldn't get in. I hate how people blow up his candidacy because of wins, but it seems pretty difficult to me to deny that a guy with a Vezina and a Cup ring as a finals starter doesn't deserve to go in nearly unquestioned.

Those are all good points. There are plenty of good arguments for Hasek/Roy over Brodeur so I get it.

I think everyone knows your bolded point is true, that's why Hasek is on Roy and Brodeur's level even without the most important hardware of all.

In my case, I guess really Marty was just my personal favorite. I played goalie myself in juniors before moving to other sports. Brodeur was my idol, and by a longshot.

To play devil's advocate:

Barrsso has a Vezina and 2 Cup rings as a Finals starter.

Tim Thomas has 2 Vezinas and a Cup ring as a Finals starter.



There's maybe some more examples, but those 2 stood out to me.

Like what was mentioned, Barrasso got in but I think both have personality issues that are hurting their chances of making the HOF.

The HOF is basically a popularity contest after all. Thomas and Barrasso are/were assholes, that's why they didn't make the HOF sooner.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I feel like Fleury can be a HHOFer and overrated by yinzers at the same time. Both can be true.

 

[OnMyOwn]

There’s no doubt he’s going into the hall. Longevity, wins, cups, vezina. I don’t think it’s even a question to be honest.

 

[Peat]

Re what pistolpete said -

As noted, Barrasso is now in, which is a part of why I said what I said. If he's in, Fleury seems a done deal. Just a matter of when. Logically Tim Thomas should be in at some point too.

Fleury will be in quicker because a) Wins b) Vegas c) Not A Bellend, but same ultimate location.

 

[Turin]

Elias Pettersson Penguin July 2024

 

[Andy99]

Elias Pettersson Penguin July 2024

If he doesn’t think the Canucks will be successful the next 8 years, why’s he signing w the Pens? Lol

 

[Fiji Water]

Fleury is a stats compiler who never had a sustained period of excellence like a Tim Thomas, Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, etc. A HHOFer should be someone that was consistently one of the top 3 or so at their position year in year out during their generation. Fleury was never that, so he does not deserve to get in, imo. But he most likely will because geez he's such a nice guy and man what a smile!

 

[canadianguy77]

Fleury is a stats compiler who never had a sustained period of excellence like a Tim Thomas, Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, etc. A HHOFer should be someone that was consistently one of the top 3 or so at their position year in year out during their generation. Fleury was never that, so he does not deserve to get in, imo. But he most likely will because geez he's such a nice guy and man what a smile!

Grant Fuhr is in there so there is a precedent, I guess. It wouldn’t be the biggest travesty.

 

[Gurglesons]

I feel like Fleury can be a HHOFer and overrated by yinzers at the same time. Both can be true.

This is it.

 

[PensandCaps]

Fleury had like 2 elite years, a bunch of average years, a good bit of bad years where he still got a bunch of wins because of 71/87 and playing in Vegas.

He'd be seen as Kari Leighton/ Ondrej Pavelec if he played in San Jose or something.

And he's like the worst playoff goalie ever.

Calling him top 3 in the cap era is hilarious though. You have 2 Boston goalies alone that are ahead of Fleury in the cap era.

 

[Turin]

If he doesn’t think the Canucks will be successful the next 8 years, why’s he signing w the Pens? Lol

The defending champs??

 

[K Fleur]

MAF’s Vegas run would hold more weight for me if hadn’t collapsed in the playoffs for them…like he always does.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Honestly MAF is just a worse version of Corey Crawford to me. Crawford was also fortunate to play behind some absolute powerhouse teams but he atleast held his own in the playoffs. Better career playoff and regular season stats as well, just didn't have the longevity or peak of MAF.

 

[Bumpus]

Fleury is a stats compiler who never had a sustained period of excellence like a Tim Thomas, Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, etc. A HHOFer should be someone that was consistently one of the top 3 or so at their position year in year out during their generation. Fleury was never that, so he does not deserve to get in, imo. But he most likely will because geez he's such a nice guy and man what a smile!

 

[SomeDude]

I feel like Fleury can be a HHOFer and overrated by yinzers at the same time. Both can be true.

Is this even the case? It seems like the majority of Pens fans hate him and blame every bad thing that has ever happened in their lives on him.

If you dare say he wasn’t the worst goalie ever born, then you are just labeled a yinzer. Because it’s easier than having an actual nuanced conversation.


Anywho, when are they announcing Mark Eaton on a PTO?

 

[Freeptop]

I'm certainly not going to say Fleury's a top 3 goalie, or anything, but considering some of the other goalies who are already in the Hall of Fame, I can't see how he doesn't make it.

It's also worth noting that Fleury was already on the decline when he took an expansion team to the Cup Final... and then he won the Vezina three years after that. The Pens really did rely on him bailing them out all the time back when he was in his prime.

Add in that the media has been calling him a future Hall of Famer ever since he went to Vegas, and one would be a fool to bet against it happening, whether you think he should, or not.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Is this even the case? It seems like the majority of Pens fans hate him and blame every bad thing that has ever happened to them in their lives on him.

If you dare say he wasn’t the worst goalie ever born, then you are just labeled a yinzer. Because it’s easier than having an actual nuanced conversation.


Anywho, when are they announcing Mark Eaton on a PTO?

Yinzers are bad! Other places better!

 

[Gurglesons]

Is this even the case? It seems like the majority of Pens fans hate him and blame every bad thing that has ever happened to them in their lives on him.

If you dare say he wasn’t the worst goalie ever born, then you are just labeled a yinzer. Because it’s easier than having an actual nuanced conversation.


Anywho, when are they announcing Mark Eaton on a PTO?

I think the majority of Penguins media perpetuates the love for MAF plus those freaks who like showed up to Vegas games in MAF jerseys.

 

[SomeDude]

I think the majority of Penguins media perpetuates the love for MAF plus those freaks who like showed up to Vegas games in MAF jerseys.

The majority of hockey media in general perpetuate love for him. Why not? He’s got a marketable personality and is one of the winningest goalies in history. The league should be doing that with more players, not less.

Don’t let anyone tell you about all the freaks that show up to games their Kunitz or Orpik or Jagr or Hornqvist or Lemieux jerseys. If you can believe it or not, those players aren’t even playing anymore and people still wear their shirts.

 

[Gurglesons]

The majority of hockey media in general perpetuate love for him. Why not? He’s got a marketable personality and is one of the winningest goalies in history. The league should be doing that with more players, not less.

Don’t let anyone tell you about all the freaks that show up to games their Kunitz or Orpik or Jagr or Hornqvist or Lemieux jerseys. If you can believe it or not, those players aren’t even playing anymore and people still wear their shirts.

I meant the alleged Penguins fans showing up to the games in Fleury Vegas jerseys.

 

[SomeDude]

I meant the alleged Penguins fans showing up to the games in Fleury Vegas jerseys.

Someone’s gotta keep those Chinese knockoff companies in business.

 

[DearDiary]

The majority of hockey media in general perpetuate love for him. Why not? He’s got a marketable personality and is one of the winningest goalies in history. The league should be doing that with more players, not less.

Don’t let anyone tell you about all the freaks that show up to games their Kunitz or Orpik or Jagr or Hornqvist or Lemieux jerseys. If you can believe it or not, those players aren’t even playing anymore and people still wear their shirts.

I heard that Bylsma showed up to Malkins 1000th game in a Craig Adams jersey. You can wear whatever jersey you want to an event you paid for, who are you to judge peoples heroes?

 

[BusinessGoose]

Imagine having the same HHOF discussion but it was our star Andy Chiodo

 

[Pens1566]

MAF is a guaranteed HoF'er. Barring something ridiculous like him getting caught with a live boy or a dead girl (or vice versa if that's your thing).