Salary Cap: Dr StrangeDubas: “Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than 10-20 more goals against, tops.”

[Buddy Bizarre]

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This is why you can't trust a former player's opinion just because they were NHL'ers. Some of these dudes are dumb as rocks.

No Hasek? This list is trash

 

[Turin]

View attachment 739304
This is why you can't trust a former player's opinion just because they were NHL'ers. Some of these dudes are dumb as rocks.

lol. I dislike Hasek the person plenty but uh, he’s probably the best all time. Roberto Luongo is better than MAF. Lundqvist is better than MAF. Tretiak.. Sawchuck.. Vasilevsky already… Price would have won multiple Cups as a starter behind Pitt. The list goes on.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

lol. I dislike Hasek the person plenty but uh, he’s probably the best all time. Roberto Luongo is better than MAF. Lundqvist is better than MAF. Tretiak.. Sawchuck.. Vasilevsky already… Price would have won multiple Cups as a starter behind Pitt. The list goes on.

Outside of the guys you mentioned...
Rask and Vokoun were top tier.
Bishop, Schneider, Rinne, Bobrovsky, Varlamov, Hellebuyck, Crawford, Thomas, Miller, Holtby, Andersen...

All goalies with 400+ games since the salary cap era started that I'd put above MAF.

That's just the last 18 years. Dubnyk should really know better as a former goalie with 542 games.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Devan Dubnyk may just be throwing a bone to a fellow goalie who plays for the wild and a guy who played during his time.

Fleury definitely does not make my top 20.

 

[Peat]

Ngl, when it comes to Fleury, I'm always struck by how his numbers really took off behind Vegas' defensive structure.

Which could be Vegas' defensive structure... or could be Pittsburgh's defensive structure being worse than the numbers say.

My first reaction to someone saying that Flower is the best goalie of his era is "Show me why" not "Impossible".

 

[Gurglesons]

Honestly, using the criteria that Dubnyk is using in terms of his assessment, I think he’s probably right. Cups, finals appearances and wins Fleury is in elite company.

Strongly disagree with his actual criteria, but Fleury likely finishes 2nd all time in wins and has 3 cups and 5 cup finals.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

My first reaction to someone saying that Flower is the best goalie of his era is "Show me why" not "Impossible".

Because there were guys who did better in harder conditions than him. Like Miller, Luongo and Bob.

Besides, only 1 year out of 3 in Vegas were excellent from him.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Fleury is absolutely one of the top three goaltenders of his era.

Putting him top three all time is just harebrained.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Fleury played in 2 games in the 2016 playoffs.
15 games in 2017.
He was infinitely better in 2008 (.933) when he lost than in 2009 (.908) when he won.

"X Cups" is the worst argument ever without context.

Fleury is absolutely one of the top three goaltenders of his era.

No chance.
A .911 playoff goalie and .913 regular season goalie, playing exclusively on playoff teams his whole career, is not a top 3 goaltender of this era.
Well, unless we're awarding points for longevity and durability.

Consistency is what should determine who was the best. That's not him. He had 6 out of 17 above average playoffs.

 

[Zbynek]

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This is why you can't trust a former player's opinion just because they were NHL'ers. Some of these dudes are dumb as rocks.

What a stupid list-oh wait, "according to Devan Dubynyk". Checks out.

I agree Marty is #1 though

 

[Night Shift]

Dat top 3 smile though.

Im telling you, Tip of the Iceburgh Podcast is more powerful than the government. They had their dirty prints in this.

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't know where I'd put Fleury in his generation, but looking at his career stats, his accomplishments, and his longevity, he's certainly in the conversation. Of all time is rather silly, but of his generation would be a worthy debate that probably comes down to what everyone puts more importance on.

 

[Gurglesons]

Fleury is absolutely one of the top three goaltenders of his era.

Putting him top three all time is just harebrained.

I probably have Luongo, Rask, and Lundqvist all above him personally. I’d probably have him and Price on the same level.

I do think people underrated how good his statistics are though.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

No chance.
A .911 playoff goalie and .913 regular season goalie, playing exclusively on playoff teams his whole career, is not a top 3 goaltender of this era.
Well, unless we're awarding points for longevity and durability.

Consistency is what should determine who was the best. That's not him. He had 6 out of 17 above average playoffs.

I'm honestly not much of a Fleury fan. But the guy stacked wins his whole career, has 3 Cups and a handful of Finals, a Vezina and has helped his various teams into the post season nearly every year of his career. And while he's always been something of a playoff boner... his regular season consistency does count for something. If he isn't top three then he's very close.

But again... all time is ridiculous. Especially if you are skipping over Dominator to put him on that list.

 

[Gurglesons]

What a stupid list-oh wait, "according to Devan Dubynyk". Checks out.

I agree Marty is #1 though

If you think Marty is # 1 I think there is a good argument for Fleury being tops too.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I agree Marty is #1 though

It has to be Hasek. Brodeur just had the better teams and was more positioned for Cups.
Hasek has 2 more Vezinas, 2 Harts to Brodeur's zero, destroys his regular season average and even has a better playoff average, playing behind far worse defenses.

If Hasek was Canadian and Brodeur Czech, everyone would be in agreement. But because Brodeur got more exposure, people got brainwashed.
Stats were also tracked much less back then, so people went by word of mouth a lot.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, in that order imo.

MAF's definitely got an argument to be a top-3 goalie of the cap era though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fleury is underrated among fans and overrated among media/players, I think that's a pretty safe claim to make.

 

[SEALBound]

It's Marty, Roy, Hasek.

That's the top 3 NHL goalies of all time at the moment.

They are interchangeable for the most part but if you're making me take one to start a franchise, all three in their prime, it's Broduer.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I'm honestly not much of a Fleury fan. But the guy stacked wins his whole career, has 3 Cups and a handful of Finals, a Vezina and has helped his various teams into the post season nearly every year of his career. And while he's always been something of a playoff boner... his regular season consistency does count for something. If he isn't top three then he's very close.

But again... all time is ridiculous. Especially if you are skipping over Dominator to put him on that list.

It's not possible to stack wins like Fleury did with Miller's situation in Buffalo, Vokoun's situation in Nashville, or Luongo's situation in Florida.
Some guys are loyal to bad situations.
These discussions should be about who stopped pucks better, since that was their job.

Bedard is about to play on a bottom feeder in Chicago. Karlsson had 101 points on a 60 point team.
Are they worse than their peers because the win count wasn't there?

Fleury is underrated among fans and overrated among media/players, I think that's a pretty safe claim to make.

He's very good, but not elite. It's as simple as that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's not possible to stack wins like Fleury did with Miller's situation in Buffalo, Vokoun's situation in Nashville, or Luongo's situation in Florida.
Some guys are loyal to bad situations.
These discussions should be about who stopped pucks better, since that was their job.

Bedard is about to play on a bottom feeder in Chicago. Karlsson had 101 points on a 60 point team.
Are they worse than their peers because the win count wasn't there?

"Absolutely" was probably hyperbole on my part but I don't think it's out of line at all to say the guy has a strong case for top three of the cap era as BFD said.

I think modern goaltending is also rather difficult to assess. These guys are all over the map month to month. Nevermind year to year.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

MAF kicked ass to watch when you weren't a fan of his team. He could be the best goalie on earth or an absolute clown show on any given night. Chaos incarnate in net.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

MAF kicked ass to watch when you weren't a fan of his team. He could be the best goalie on earth or an absolute clown show on any given night. Chaos incarnate in net.

They kinda all are to some degree IMO.

It's just that Fleury's circuses were much more... uh... grandiose in both timing and spectacle.

 

[Night Shift]

It's not possible to stack wins like Fleury did with Miller's situation in Buffalo, Vokoun's situation in Nashville, or Luongo's situation in Florida.
Some guys are loyal to bad situations.
These discussions should be about who stopped pucks better, since that was their job.

Bedard is about to play on a bottom feeder in Chicago. Karlsson had 101 points on a 60 point team.
Are they worse than their peers because the win count wasn't there?


He's very good, but not elite. It's as simple as that.

[Yt]

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I think modern goaltending is also rather difficult to assess. These guys are all over the map month to month. Nevermind year to year.

That's why I look at averages, and not great bursts. It's about how often you helped your team win throughout your career, on any given night.

Vokoun had 9 out of his 10 last seasons as a .917+. 8 of those years on Nashville and Florida. Exceptional.
It's a shame he had to retire at 37, because he was still fire.