Salary Cap: Dr StrangeDubas: “Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than 10-20 more goals against, tops.”

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That's why I look at averages, and not great bursts. It's about how often you helped your team win throughout your career.

Vokoun had 9 out of his 10 last seasons as a .917+. 8 of those years on Nashville and Florida. Exceptional.
It's a shame he had to retire at 37, because he was still fire.

I DO love me some Vokoun.

Got to watch him at both ends of his career. First in the ECHL at his start when I was a kid and then of course at the end in Pittsburgh.

 

[Peat]

"Absolutely" was probably hyperbole on my part but I don't think it's out of line at all to say the guy has a strong case for top three of the cap era as BFD said.

I think modern goaltending is also rather difficult to assess. These guys are all over the map month to month. Nevermind year to year.

Can't agree enough with the difficulty in assessing them. Feels like large swathes of the hockey world openly admits they have no clue and the numbers we've got are just wonky af.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I DO love me some Vokoun.

Got to watch him at both ends of his career. First in the ECHL at his start when I was a kid and then of course at the end in Pittsburgh.

Dude ended up partaking in 3 playoffs. 22 games.
That's what loyalty to bad teams gets you. What a shame.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Too bad they don't keep a stat called goals allowed on first shot of game/period

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Can't agree enough with the difficulty in assessing them. Feels like large swathes of the hockey world openly admits they have no clue and the numbers we've got are just wonky af.

Yeah it's honestly something of a guessing game combined with some level of witchcraft with a little bit of "what do you value" thrown in. I've given up trying to figure them out.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Too bad they don't keep a stat called goals allowed on first shot of game/period

I always breathe easier after Jarry stops the first one. IF he does lol.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Yeah some goalies are just clutch

Some goalies make themselves have to play clutch by screwing easy plays up

Both might have success when purely stat watching

But the second is infinitely more annoying to watch in real-time

 

[Zbynek]

If you think Marty is # 1 I think there is a good argument for Fleury being tops too.

Fleury was never (not even in his Vezina season) even a tenth of how as clutch Brodeur was.

Brodeur and MAF are not in the same stratosphere. Everyone just likes MAF because he's goofy and plays pranks on his teammates in the locker room.

It has to be Hasek. Brodeur just had the better teams and was more positioned for Cups.
Hasek has 2 more Vezinas, 2 Harts to Brodeur's zero, destroys his regular season average and even has a better playoff average, playing behind far worse defenses.

If Hasek was Canadian and Brodeur Czech, everyone would be in agreement. But because Brodeur got more exposure, people got brainwashed.
Stats were also tracked much less back then, so people went by word of mouth a lot.

I agree that the team behind Brodeur was significantly better built and better coached than the Sabres during those years.

Still, Martin Brodeur is far and away the most clutch goalie to ever play the game. You needed a big game from your goalie, you got it with Marty. That's why he's #1.

Pretty much the same reason MAF doesn't even sniff top 20.

 

[Zbynek]

It has to be Hasek. Brodeur just had the better teams and was more positioned for Cups.
Hasek has 2 more Vezinas, 2 Harts to Brodeur's zero, destroys his regular season average and even has a better playoff average, playing behind far worse defenses.

If Hasek was Canadian and Brodeur Czech, everyone would be in agreement. But because Brodeur got more exposure, people got brainwashed.
Stats were also tracked much less back then, so people went by word of mouth a lot.

The top 3 all time is pretty clearly Brodeur/Hasek/Roy (that's my personal ranking in order) but the order is a toss-up and everyone sees it a little differently.

 

[Zbynek]

Hard to deny Hasek's career statline and out of the box talent, or Roy's peak and 3 Conn Smythes to his name, but I grew up idolizing Brodeur's calm and clutch style. His unreal confidence playing the puck behind the net. Skills we've quite literally never seen a Penguins goalie possess. If we're going best of 7 series I'm taking Marty every day.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Too bad they don't keep a stat called goals allowed on first shot of game/period

Or goals scored on yourself

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Brodeur had the benefit of some of the most miserably obstruction-based, dead puck era teams/systems/coaches in front of him for like 15 years. Dude was very good, but he wasn't Hasek good, or Roy good, imo.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Brodeur had the benefit of some of the most miserably obstruction-based, dead puck era teams/systems/coaches in front of him for like 15 years. Dude was very good, but he wasn't Hasek good, or Roy good, imo.

Yeah it's easier to be calm and collected behind a team that is waterskiing the opposing team up and down the ice and braining anyone who gets close to your net.

I despise that era of Devils hockey. Even if Brodear was of course HOF worthy regardless.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Brodeur had the benefit of some of the most miserably obstruction-based, dead puck era teams/systems/coaches in front of him for like 15 years. Dude was very good, but he wasn't Hasek good, or Roy good, imo.

Fair or not, that's why I ALWAYS put Hasek ahead of him.
If you switch teams, I'm not sure Broduer accomplishes what Hasek did with the Sabres.

PS- Broduer was who I modeled my goalie game after, so don't label me as a hater

 

[pistolpete11]

Brodeur had the benefit of some of the most miserably obstruction-based, dead puck era teams/systems/coaches in front of him for like 15 years. Dude was very good, but he wasn't Hasek good, or Roy good, imo.

I think the opposite could be said in MAF's favor, too. The Pens were mostly a good team when MAF was here, but their focus was first and foremost to score goals. In a different timeline, maybe he doesn't have the same team level success, but maybe his stats look a lot better, too. We'll never know.

Edit: To be clear, not putting MAF in the all time category. Just saying compared to some of his peers.

 

[BusinessGoose]

For his many many warts, I'm not sure the team becomes what it was without drafting MAF.

He was scary at times but pretty solid option for a growing team in a time when the league was transitioning in defense and style.

Alternate reality of who the pens would have tried to sign etc without him in the pipeline would be an interesting exercise.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I agree that the team behind Brodeur was significantly better built and better coached than the Sabres during those years.

Still, Martin Brodeur is far and away the most clutch goalie to ever play the game. You needed a big game from your goalie, you got it with Marty. That's why he's #1.

Pretty much the same reason MAF doesn't even sniff top 20.

Patrick Roy says hello.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

For his many many warts, I'm not sure the team becomes what it was without drafting MAF.

He was scary at times but pretty solid option for a growing team in a time when the league was transitioning in defense and style.

Alternate reality of who the pens would have tried to sign etc without him in the pipeline would be an interesting exercise.

No doubt MAF was a very good goalie, a tremendous athlete and had a number of clutch moments.

That puts him in the Hall of Very good, not HOF

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think the Hall of Fame's been about the best of the best for like, decades. It's been the Hall of Very Good for a loooong time. MAF gets in for me, and I'm not a particularly big MAF fan.

 

[pistolpete11]

No doubt MAF was a very good goalie, a tremendous athlete and had a number of clutch moments.

That puts him in the Hall of Very good, not HOF

Barring Fleury getting busted for betting on his own team or something (I was going to say kill his wife and a waiter, but I think OJ is still in the HOF ), I will bet you any amount of money he'll be in the HOF. Probably even first ballot.






R.I.P. Norm.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't think the Hall of Fame's been about the best of the best for like, decades. It's been the Hall of Very Good for a loooong time. MAF gets in for me, and I'm not a particularly big MAF fan.

Yeah the Hall has some pretty weaksauce members and has for a while. MAF gets in.

Also I'm trying to bring back "weaksauce."

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah the Hall has some pretty weaksauce members and has for a while. MAF gets in.

Also I'm trying to bring back "weaksauce."

I believe in you.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I believe in you.

Well I'm glad SOMEBODY does.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

You only move Jake if you pretty much get a player comparable to him is the way I see it. I'll admit I always liked Jake but I didn't think he would amount to what he is to this team. The guy goes out there and gives it his all. He has taken so much punishment over the yeard and I can't believe he has held up. He's a top winger in this league.

Management has already shown that they are in this to win now and the EK acquisition has basically sealed that. (Along with the cores signing). EK didn't fall into our lap, we worked pretty hard to make it happen and it was complicated. To trade Jake and not bring back a comparable player just wouldn't make any sense. The guy produces so that's going to be hard to find.

The Neal/Guentzel comparisons couldn't be farther off. That being said as a side note I think a player like Boeser could be a prime Neal replacement to Geno and pot 40 along side him.

BFG has been pumping the core is washed up for years and this team is done so I am not surprised at all to see half his takes about Jake although he has backed off the Geno/Crosby are done takes because well,........he had to. They aren't done.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Barring Fleury getting busted for betting on his own team or something (I was going to say kill his wife and a waiter, but I think OJ is still in the HOF ), I will bet you any amount of money he'll be in the HOF. Probably even first ballot.






R.I.P. Norm.

I'm not going to take that bet bc I KNOW he'll make it.
The question of him being DESERVING is another topic