Salary Cap: Dr StrangeDubas: “Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than 10-20 more goals against, tops.”

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

MAF is def not a top 3 goalie of all time but he is in the Cap era. I've said it before but it's not a coincidence that the majority of his struggles were the 5 years of Bylsma. He immediately bounced back after DB was fired then immediately went on a historic PO run in year 1 with Vegas and won a Vezina.

 

[Gurglesons]

Fleury was never (not even in his Vezina season) even a tenth of how as clutch Brodeur was.

Brodeur and MAF are not in the same stratosphere. Everyone just likes MAF because he's goofy and plays pranks on his teammates in the locker room.


I agree that the team behind Brodeur was significantly better built and better coached than the Sabres during those years.

Still, Martin Brodeur is far and away the most clutch goalie to ever play the game. You needed a big game from your goalie, you got it with Marty. That's why he's #1.

Pretty much the same reason MAF doesn't even sniff top 20.

I would love to see Fleury’s numbers playing behind arguably the greatest defensive core of all time for 10 years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fleury is 100% making the HOF, the debate is whether he'll be a first ballot HOF or not.

He's going to finish his NHL career 2nd in regular season wins and 3rd in playoff wins among goalies all time. He has 3 cups, 5 cup appearances, a Jennings and a Vezina. That is absolutely a HOF resume, there isn't an argument against that whatsoever.

Fleury is this generation's Grant Fuhr. Fuhr was a first ballot HOFer.

 

[Zbynek]

Patrick Roy says hello.

In his peak years, yes. Not throughout his whole career. Same can be said about Hasek. Nobody thought Hasek would become one of the best goalies ever when Jagr and Mario were dunking on him in '92.

Brodeur sustained clutch play longer than any goalie ever. A true stud from his rookie year. Highlight saves until his retirement.

Like i said, the big 3 are all on the same level. They're all very special guys. It comes down to preference. I just don't feel like Roy or Hasek calmed the game down (especially over the course of a playoff series) like Marty did.

Flower is a HOF lock. Yes. But he's not in the Brodeur/Hasek/Roy discussion, not even close. It's a joke to put him next to those names.

Fleury is 100% making the HOF, the debate is whether he'll be a first ballot HOF or not.

He's going to finish his NHL career 2nd in regular season wins and 3rd in playoff wins among goalies all time. He has 3 cups, 5 cup appearances, a Jennings and a Vezina. That is absolutely a HOF resume, there isn't an argument against that whatsoever.

Fleury is this generation's Grant Fuhr. Fuhr was a first ballot HOFer.

Exactly. The Fuhr comparison is spot on.

 

[Peat]

I am idly curious as to what people think should be the standard for the Hall of Fame if they think Fleury maybe shouldn't get in. I hate how people blow up his candidacy because of wins, but it seems pretty difficult to me to deny that a guy with a Vezina and a Cup ring as a finals starter doesn't deserve to go in nearly unquestioned.

 

[Gurglesons]

In his peak years, yes. Not throughout his whole career. Same can be said about Hasek. Nobody thought Hasek would become one of the best goalies ever when Jagr and Mario were dunking on him in '92.

Brodeur sustained clutch play longer than any goalie ever. A true stud from his rookie year. Highlight saves until his retirement.

Like i said, the big 3 are all on the same level. They're all very special guys. It comes down to preference. I just don't feel like Roy or Hasek calmed the game down (especially over the course of a playoff series) like Marty did.

Flower is a HOF lock. Yes. But he's not in the Brodeur/Hasek/Roy discussion, not even close. It's a joke to put him next to those names.


Exactly. The Fuhr comparison is spot on.

Brodeur didn’t win a cup past 30.

Roy and Hasek both did.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

MAF is def not a top 3 goalie of all time but he is in the Cap era. I've said it before but it's not a coincidence that the majority of his struggles were the 5 years of Bylsma. He immediately bounced back after DB was fired then immediately went on a historic PO run in year 1 with Vegas and won a Vezina.

And what happened to MAF in the LV Finals?? Hmmm...I can't remember

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

In his peak years, yes. Not throughout his whole career. Same can be said about Hasek. Nobody thought Hasek would become one of the best goalies ever when Jagr and Mario were dunking on him in '92.

Brodeur sustained clutch play longer than any goalie ever. A true stud from his rookie year. Highlight saves until his retirement.

Like i said, the big 3 are all on the same level. They're all very special guys. It comes down to preference. I just don't feel like Roy or Hasek calmed the game down (especially over the course of a playoff series) like Marty did.

Pray tell, how you're going to 'calm the game down' when your best defensemen are Smhelik and Zhitnik?
Their top forwards in 99? That would be Satan and Mike Peca.

Making comparisons to Brodeurs (and Roys) teams and Haseks are laughable.
If Hasek played on the Devils or Avs he'd probably have 4 Cups.

 

[Zbynek]

Pray tell, how you're going to 'calm the game down' when your best defensemen are Smhelik and Zhitnik?
Their top forwards in 99? That would be Satan and Mike Peca.

Making comparisons to Brodeurs (and Roys) teams and Haseks are laughable.
If Hasek played on the Devils or Avs he'd probably have 4 Cups.

Those are all good points. There are plenty of good arguments for Hasek/Roy over Brodeur so I get it.

I think everyone knows your bolded point is true, that's why Hasek is on Roy and Brodeur's level even without the most important hardware of all.

In my case, I guess really Marty was just my personal favorite. I played goalie myself in juniors before moving to other sports. Brodeur was my idol, and by a longshot.

 

[pistolpete11]

I am idly curious as to what people think should be the standard for the Hall of Fame if they think Fleury maybe shouldn't get in. I hate how people blow up his candidacy because of wins, but it seems pretty difficult to me to deny that a guy with a Vezina and a Cup ring as a finals starter doesn't deserve to go in nearly unquestioned.

To play devil's advocate:

Barrsso has a Vezina and 2 Cup rings as a Finals starter.

Tim Thomas has 2 Vezinas and a Cup ring as a Finals starter.



There's maybe some more examples, but those 2 stood out to me.

 

[Gurglesons]

To play devil's advocate:

Barrsso has a Vezina and 2 Cup rings as a Finals starter.

Tim Thomas has 2 Vezinas and a Cup ring as a Finals starter.



There's maybe some more examples, but those 2 stood out to me.

Barasso is being added to HHOF this year.

 

[pistolpete11]

Barasso is being added to HHOF this year.

Somehow missed that, but still, took him long enough.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

To play devil's advocate:

Barrsso has a Vezina and 2 Cup rings as a Finals starter.

Tim Thomas has 2 Vezinas and a Cup ring as a Finals starter.



There's maybe some more examples, but those 2 stood out to me.

Funny you bring up Thomas. He likely gets dinged for his short career

 

[Empoleon8771]

To play devil's advocate:

Barrsso has a Vezina and 2 Cup rings as a Finals starter.

Tim Thomas has 2 Vezinas and a Cup ring as a Finals starter.



There's maybe some more examples, but those 2 stood out to me.

Like what was mentioned, Barrasso got in but I think both have personality issues that are hurting their chances of making the HOF.

The HOF is basically a popularity contest after all. Thomas and Barrasso are/were assholes, that's why they didn't make the HOF sooner.

 

[pistolpete11]

Like what was mentioned, Barrasso got in but I think both have personality issues that are hurting their chances of making the HOF.

The HOF is basically a popularity contest after all. Thomas and Barrasso are/were assholes, that's why they didn't make the HOF sooner.

Then MAF is FOR SURE getting in

 

[Gurglesons]

Funny you bring up Thomas. He likely gets dinged for his short career

I don’t think it’s the career for Thomas. Lol

 

[Zirakzigil]

New thread:

Salary Cap: - Dr StrangeDubas: "Defense sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid defense, Sully."

Sully: Uh, Kyle, Kyle, listen... tell me, tell me, Kyle. When did you first... become... well, develop this theory? Dr StrangeDubas: [somewhat embarassed] Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, Sully, during the physical act of player trade. Sully: Hmm. Dr StrangeDubas: Yes, a uh...

forums.hfboards.com

This one is at 100 pages, thats enough.