Post-Game Talk: Don't wanna let us wearing our Red Home Jersey? No Problem Mr Dundon... (Canes 4-6 Habs)

[sandysan]

The two biggest markets, Toronto and New York, say you're wrong. Both franchises actively and publicly did exactly what I'm suggesting Montreal do.

toronto was mired in the basement for DECADES and it was still a liscence to print money.

teams fortunes go up, they go down. the one way to ensure that you get to ride it out is to NOT go boom to bust and hope that the boom comes first.

and the oilers sucked for a really long time and its added up to nothing ? so what ?

the notion that tanking and sucking for years is gonna land you a white knight who will solve all of your problems and lead you one day ( someday???) to the promised land is a tale best left to children's books. There are so many variables ( weak draft year, bad luck in the draft lotterey, current composition of the team, injuries) that a team cannot control, to focus on the 1st and think that it will a salve for all systemic problems is idiotic.

as a fan, yeah it would be great if we had an owner who would throw money hand over fist to win at any cost. But the owner of the team is the owner first.

financially montreal will be fine for the discernable future. if you want to risk that by buying hope and potentials then buy some lottery tickets with your own scratch.

 

[CauZuki]

toronto was mired in the basement for DECADES and it was still a liscence to print money.

teams fortunes go up, they go down. the one way to ensure that you get to ride it out is to NOT go boom to bust and hope that the boom comes first.

and the oilers sucked for a really long time and its added up to nothing ? so what ?

the notion that tanking and sucking for years is gonna land you a white knight who will solve all of your problems and lead you one day ( someday???) to the promised land is a tale best left to children's books. There are so many variables ( weak draft year, bad luck in the draft lotterey, current composition of the team, injuries) that a team cannot control, to focus on the 1st and think that it will a salve for all systemic problems is idiotic.

as a fan, yeah it would be great if we had an owner who would throw money hand over fist to win at any cost. But the owner of the team is the owner first.

financially montreal will be fine for the discernable future. if you want to risk that by buying hope and potentials then buy some lottery tickets with your own scratch.

However when you flip the argument , show us the teams that have won the cup since the lockout without elite players drafted in the top 5.

Ovechkin/Backstrom
Crosby/Malkin/Kessel
Kopitar/Doughty
Toews/Kane

Boston is the only real exception that didn't have a plethora of top picks but still:

Marchand/Bergeron/Lucic/Seguin

Would you really put Kotkaniemi/Suzuki or even Drouin/Domi in the same category as the above mentioned players?

Is the objective to be competitive (making the playoffs) but never actually have a real chance at the cup? Seems like pretty bad expectations for such a historic and high budget franchise.

 

[admiralcadillac]

However when you flip the argument , show us the teams that have won the cup since the lockout without elite players drafted in the top 5.

Ovechkin/Backstrom
Crosby/Malkin/Kessel/Fleury
Kopitar/Doughty
Toews/Kane

Boston is the only real exception that didn't have a plethora of top picks but still:

Marchand/Bergeron/Lucic/Seguin

Would you really put Kotkaniemi/Suzuki or even Drouin/Domi in the same category as the above mentioned players?

Is the objective to be competitive (making the playoffs) but never actually have a real chance at the cup? Seems like pretty bad expectations for such a historic and high budget franchise.

Well you don't really have to choose between Kotkaniemi and Suzuki or Drouin and Domi seeing as we have all four players, and Weber, and Price. The team is close to being very good.

 

[Not The One]

I'd be interested in hearing the reasoning of posters that think we will do anything other than be swept in the first round of the playoffs if we even make them.
P.S. Make the playoffs and anything can happen is not a valid argument.

I'd be interested in hearing the reasoning of posters who think that finishing 20th and out of the playoffs somehow guarantees a better long-term outcome than finishing 10th and loosing in the first or second round.

 

[habsfan891]

I'd be interested in hearing the reasoning of posters who think that finishing 20th and out of the playoffs somehow guarantees a better long-term outcome than finishing 10th and loosing in the first or second round.

Better draft picks guarantees a better future or at least that's how the nhl has worked for the past 100 years you get the best kids at the top of the draft not picking 18th because you made the playoffs and lost first round.

 

[Not The One]

Better draft picks guarantees a better future or at least that's how the nhl has worked for the past 100 years you get the best kids at the top of the draft not picking 18th because you made the playoffs and lost first round.

Explain perennial looser like Carolina, Florida, Arizona, Edmonton, etc... It took Toronto a decade and lots of luck to turn things around and even once bad now 'good' teams like Winnipeg and Columbus and long time contenders like San Jose and Nashville haven't won it yet.

By those standards are Dallas idiots for having signed Radulov to that contract? They missed the playoffs last year and have less points than the Habs so far this season.

 

[CauZuki]

Well you don't really have to choose between Kotkaniemi and Suzuki or Drouin and Domi seeing as we have all four players, and Weber, and Price. The team is close to being very good.

What does that mean? Please give a concrete example of what you actually mean. This sounds like a used car salesman , trust me it will be great!!

Where do you propose we are going to get our top 3 calibre players if we don't draft them like every single Stanley cup winner since the lockout?
I think we have some solid young players and some very interesting prospects but these steps come after you've identified a core star to build around.

Now I repeat , do we want to win a cup realistically because the "anything can happen" mentality isn't going to convince anyone when all the past winners had superstar or generational players. This being a category I am not comfortable putting any of Drouin/Domi/Kotkaniemi or Suzuki. We are building a team of low hanging fruit , acquiring easy/medium difficulty assets and leaving the hardest part to...Chance?

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Nice win. I thought Kulak looked a bit overwhelmed. Julien seemed to shorten his bench the last 5 minutes, and maybe Kotkaniemi was also left aside after his last turnover? I hope Agostino is OK (kind of a dirty move by Williams to spear him in the gonads). Another really good night from the 4th line. Victory, Hooray!

 

[scrubadam]

However when you flip the argument , show us the teams that have won the cup since the lockout without elite players drafted in the top 5.

Ovechkin/Backstrom
Crosby/Malkin/Kessel
Kopitar/Doughty
Toews/Kane

Boston is the only real exception that didn't have a plethora of top picks but still:

Marchand/Bergeron/Lucic/Seguin

Would you really put Kotkaniemi/Suzuki or even Drouin/Domi in the same category as the above mentioned players?

Is the objective to be competitive (making the playoffs) but never actually have a real chance at the cup? Seems like pretty bad expectations for such a historic and high budget franchise.

Do you see a pattern with the teams you listed? Maybe they managed to draft high during a time frame that saw some of the best drafts ever? HOF/Generational talents out the wazoo, HOFers. Pens and CHI got guys with 6 cups between them. And also that little thing called back diving cap circumventing contracts too.

Can't wait for PENS/CHI era to be over. It not that these teams tanked that 3 teams won the majority of the cups, its that they came about at the right time. I mean the Pens didn't even tank to get Crosby. If there was no lockout Pens with Malkin in the lineup don't have Crosby and they probably have maybe max 1 cup if any at all.

Lets see the list of all the teams that tanked that didn't win cups. And yes the best talent is at the top of the draft but habs already snagged KK, traded for 3OVA Drouin, and have 2 top 15 picks in Domi and Suzuki. This was supposed to be a tanking year but the team is better than they should be because the players we got are having better seasons. Lets reward and grow on that. Why waste what could be an 80 point season from Domi or another 30 G from BG. I want to see if Domi can step his game up in the playoffs unlike Max and AG. Drouin had 14 points his first playoffs I want to see what he can do. I want KK to have his first taste of playoff hockey so he can be even better next year and the year after. I want Juulsen to play in big time pressure situations.

And guess what if they suck again next year or the year after so what just a chance to grab another top talent and try to turn it around quick. In the NHL now a days you can go from the top to the bottom very quickly. Colorado was supposed to suck last year. BUF was supposed to draft top of the draft again. There is so much parity in the league. And we are finally seeing the end of the generational dominance from LA/CHI and somewhat(but not dead)Pens. Hopefully other teams can start winning cups again.

 

[CauZuki]

Do you see a pattern with the teams you listed? Maybe they managed to draft high during a time frame that saw some of the best drafts ever? HOF/Generational talents out the wazoo, HOFers. Pens and CHI got guys with 6 cups between them. And also that little thing called back diving cap circumventing contracts too.

Can't wait for PENS/CHI era to be over. It not that these teams tanked that 3 teams won the majority of the cups, its that they came about at the right time. I mean the Pens didn't even tank to get Crosby. If there was no lockout Pens with Malkin in the lineup don't have Crosby and they probably have maybe max 1 cup if any at all.

Lets see the list of all the teams that tanked that didn't win cups. And yes the best talent is at the top of the draft but habs already snagged KK, traded for 3OVA Drouin, and have 2 top 15 picks in Domi and Suzuki. This was supposed to be a tanking year but the team is better than they should be because the players we got are having better seasons. Lets reward and grow on that. Why waste what could be an 80 point season from Domi or another 30 G from BG. I want to see if Domi can step his game up in the playoffs unlike Max and AG. Drouin had 14 points his first playoffs I want to see what he can do. I want KK to have his first taste of playoff hockey so he can be even better next year and the year after. I want Juulsen to play in big time pressure situations.

And guess what if they suck again next year or the year after so what just a chance to grab another top talent and try to turn it around quick. In the NHL now a days you can go from the top to the bottom very quickly. Colorado was supposed to suck last year. BUF was supposed to draft top of the draft again. There is so much parity in the league. And we are finally seeing the end of the generational dominance from LA/CHI and somewhat(but not dead)Pens. Hopefully other teams can start winning cups again.

Citing examples of Colorado and Buffalo both teams who are benefiting from drafting top players , well I'm convinced...

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade it just seems superficial to put our faith in a team being built for perennial "above averageness". Enough to keep the butts in the seat but never realistically good enough to win a Cup...

 

[sandysan]

However when you flip the argument , show us the teams that have won the cup since the lockout without elite players drafted in the top 5.

Ovechkin/Backstrom
Crosby/Malkin/Kessel
Kopitar/Doughty
Toews/Kane

Boston is the only real exception that didn't have a plethora of top picks but still:

Marchand/Bergeron/Lucic/Seguin

Would you really put Kotkaniemi/Suzuki or even Drouin/Domi in the same category as the above mentioned players?

Is the objective to be competitive (making the playoffs) but never actually have a real chance at the cup? Seems like pretty bad expectations for such a historic and high budget franchise.

So 4 have, one hasn't another team did but didn't win and you want Molson to potentially upset the cart of consistent never ending revenues to chase some "maybe" based on those odds?

And Washington took a Hella long time to get there and Chicago boomed and now they are busting. Right here right now, you trade our fortunes for theirs? The leafs haven't won since forever and not a single team doesn't switch places with the leafs immediately.

Lots of things happen in the playoffs that can't be predicted, but I'm okay with us not doing well and getting incrementally better ( like say the caps) that risking everything on the flavor of the month to magically put us on his shoulders ( which rarely, if ever happens).

If you are asking the same question to the owner, would you rather get revenue from the playoffs or suck for 5 years or more to ensure what you pretty much have now ( making the playoffs) on the chances you win it all goes up a tiny bit and this advantage could dissappear based on things you have zero control over ( injuries, bad matchups) who WOULDNT kill the goose that layer the golden eggs?

 

[CauZuki]

So 4 have, one hasn't another team did but didn't win and you want Molson to potentially upset the cart of consistent never ending revenues to chase some "maybe" based on those odds?

And Washington took a Hella long time to get there and Chicago boomed and now they are busting. Right here right now, you trade our fortunes for theirs? The leafs haven't won since forever and not a single team doesn't switch places with the leafs immediately.

Lots of things happen in the playoffs that can't be predicted, but I'm okay with us not doing well and getting incrementally better ( like say the caps) that risking everything on the flavor of the month to magically put us on his shoulders ( which rarely, if ever happens).

If you are asking the same question to the owner, would you rather get revenue from the playoffs or suck for 5 years or more to ensure what you pretty much have now ( making the playoffs) on the chances you win it all goes up a tiny bit and this advantage could dissappear based on things you have zero control over ( injuries, bad matchups) who WOULDNT kill the goose that layer the golden eggs?

Which of those scenarios has better odds of being successful? The scenario that's always happened since the lockout or the maybe scenario that we are making up based on nothing? There are many factors to winning a cup , I 100% agree but the one thing all of the past winners have in common is an offensive catalyst type player that can stir the drink and carry the team on his back...I see that in many teams in the NHL , don't see that on the Habs just yet unless someone's career takes a ridiculous upswing.

Let's forget the old guard of the NHL and concentrate on the new up and coming teams:

Scheifele/Laine
Mackinnon/Rantanen/Landeskog
Matthews/Tavares/Marner/Nylander
McDavid/Draisatl/Nurse
Stamkos/Kucherov/Point (and company)
Eichel/Skinner/Dahlin
Monahan/Tkatchuk
Dubois/Panarin/Jones/Werenski
Pettersson/Boeser/ *Potential lottery pick in 2019* (Vancouver has the right idea)
Aho/Svechnikov + crazy young defensive corp.

I don't see how we are even close , I'm sorry...

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Yeah let's move Petry and Weber so we can get top draft picks that have a 30-40% chance of becoming Beaulieu and Tinordi or another 30-40% Chance of becoming Alzner and Hickey or a 20-30% chance of becoming Weber and Petry.

We can only wish theyd have a 20-30 % chance of becoming as good. The problem with the trade Petry posters plan is that they don't really have a plan other than to get rid of him for a few magic beans in an attempt to get a couple assets along the way.

The problem is two fold, the assets we get back are almost an absolute guarantee to not be as good as Petry, but we could get a nice piece maybe, if we get lucky, but in 3 years we will still be looking to replace Petry. Tanking is far from the only way to build a team. Its just that most GM's are ex-players and often not the brightest bunch. Keep Petry and make incremental improvements IMO. It can be done in a way that you don't need to suffer watchingvthe team. We've had bad gms, tank or no tank, MB is not going to create a winner here. I'd rather watch a team be competitive night in and night out while I await his inevitable firing.

 

[admiralcadillac]

What does that mean? Please give a concrete example of what you actually mean. This sounds like a used car salesman , trust me it will be great!!

Where do you propose we are going to get our top 3 calibre players if we don't draft them like every single Stanley cup winner since the lockout?
I think we have some solid young players and some very interesting prospects but these steps come after you've identified a core star to build around.

Now I repeat , do we want to win a cup realistically because the "anything can happen" mentality isn't going to convince anyone when all the past winners had superstar or generational players. This being a category I am not comfortable putting any of Drouin/Domi/Kotkaniemi or Suzuki. We are building a team of low hanging fruit , acquiring easy/medium difficulty assets to acquire and leaving the hardest part to...Chance?

Toronto, Tampa, Edmonton, Colorado, Buffalo are all examples of teams that have drafted elite talent and haven't gotten there yet with it.

You can easily transpose the "anything can happen" in the playoffs with "anything can happen" at the draft. Meaning there's absolutely no guarantee who we draft becomes what is needed to win a cup.

The team could have easily been putrid this year, they didn't make deals this summer sacrificing any kind of young talent, quite the contrary. Yet here we are with a team that can't lose enough games.

What would you leave the 'hardest part' to? Sounds an awful lot like we HAVE to leave it to chance because that's what f***ing draft is. That's what a lottery is.


Trading guys like Petry, Weber, Price just means we are forced to draft guys to replace them. It's not a net benefit. If you want to trade your boat for a magical box that could be a boat, go for it. But the rest of the team fighting for a playoff spot gets the wrong message there.

 

[CauZuki]

Toronto, Tampa, Edmonton, Colorado, Buffalo are all examples of teams that have drafted elite talent and haven't gotten there yet with it.

You can easily transpose the "anything can happen" in the playoffs with "anything can happen" at the draft. Meaning there's absolutely no guarantee who we draft becomes what is needed to win a cup.

The team could have easily been putrid this year, they didn't make deals this summer sacrificing any kind of young talent, quite the contrary. Yet here we are with a team that can't lose enough games.

What would you leave the 'hardest part' to? Sounds an awful lot like we HAVE to leave it to chance because that's what ****ing draft is. That's what a lottery is.

All those teams players are hitting their prime now and it shows look at the standings...You are setting a ridiculous standard , we are clearly not part of the new guard of top NHL players , look at my above post , how do you think we can compare to all other teams top young players?

 

[admiralcadillac]

All those teams players are hitting their prime now... You are setting a ridiculous standard , we are clearly not part of the new guard of top NHL players , look at my above post , how do you think we can compare to all other teams top young players?

This would have been a great year to get rid of assets at the deadline but the team isn't bad enough for that.

Most people actually enjoy watching a team that is relatively competitive out there. If the team was terrible those trades would be doable, but they aren't right now, both from a fanbase perspective and a team perspective.

I'm not sure what standard you're referring to by the way? What standard am I setting?

It's clear that drafting guys like Crosby makes a team better but it's nearly impossible to draft them even if you manage to get a top pick.

Is your suggestion to get rid of all of the veterans on the team with any value, and destroy the team, in order to tank and have access to higher draft picks that will need to replace the players we're giving up?

 

[yianik]

As much as I think Molson is a buffoon, I think Bergevin has free reigns to do as he please. If Bergey told Molson they need to do something crazy..like..trade your most popular and marketable player for an older one with the personality of a brick wall....he would be okay with it..

You are being ridiculous. Would never happen.

Uh...

 

[CauZuki]

This would have been a great year to get rid of assets at the deadline but the team isn't bad enough for that.

Most people actually enjoy watching a team that is relatively competitive out there. If the team was terrible those trades would be doable, but they aren't right now, both from a fanbase perspective and a team perspective.

In today's NHL it's relatively easy to build a competitive team due to parity , it's extremely difficult to build a cup winning team and having a franchise/generational type of player seems to be the only way to standout. We are currently not built in that way and all the teams since the lockout to win a cup are built in that way , all the teams currently leading the young , fast paced NHL are built in that way , so what exactly are we emulating here? There is no cup of the above average or the very good , we are the Montreal freaking Canadiens , the winningest and most historic franchise in the NHL.

**WE NEED TO RAISE OUR STANDARDS!**

 

[admiralcadillac]

In today's NHL it's relatively easy to build a competitive team due to parity , it's extremely difficult to build a cup winning team and having a franchise/generational type of player seems to be the only way to standout. We are currently not built in that way and all the teams since the lockout to win a cup are built in that way , all the teams currently leading the young , fast paced NHL are built in that way , so what exactly are we emulating here? There is no cup of the above average or the very good , we are the Montreal freaking Canadiens , the winningest and most historic franchise in the NHL.

**WE NEED TO RAISE OUR STANDARDS!**

You don't build a team by getting a generational talent. You are either lucky enough to get a generational talent by winning the lottery or you aren't.

You standards involve being a shit team until one day we maybe luck out and get a player that will get us there. After that, we can still be shit for many many years afterwards as we try and fill the gaps created by trading away all our veteran talent.

Sounds great. While doing that of course, the fans will be clamoring for 4-5 coaching, management and ownership changes because they'll never be able to make up their minds.

 

[Le compétiteur]

Better draft picks guarantees a better future or at least that's how the nhl has worked for the past 100 years you get the best kids at the top of the draft not picking 18th because you made the playoffs and lost first round.

This would be true if you were talking about NFL as they drafted players out of college while their devlopment is quite completed , sadly this is NHL and this league draft 18 years old players.

That's why in NHL a player drafted 1st overall can bust while elite players can be drafted in the last round.

A pick, what ever rank it is, is nothing more then a lottery ticket that you have to wait sometime up to 5 years before you can know if it was a winning ticket.

After 25 of beeing from bad to worst, lottery ticket is the last thing we need. As a matter of fact, what team need is to wait 1 or 2 more years then start To trade some prospects and lottery tickets (picks) in order to get players on their prime to push up the team to the next level.

That said, it's what this team need as long as the objective is to win the cup... if the objective is not to win the cup then this team need to trade players in their prime for picks and prospects...

I tought the objective was the cup but apparently Habs fans want that the team keep being bad...

 

[CauZuki]

You don't build a team by getting a generational talent. You are either lucky enough to get a generational talent by winning the lottery or you aren't.

You standards involve being a **** team until one day we maybe luck out and get a player that will get us there. After that, we can still be **** for many many years afterwards as we try and fill the gaps created by trading away all our veteran talent.

Sounds great. While doing that of course, the fans will be clamoring for 4-5 coaching, management and ownership changes because they'll never be able to make up their minds.

I'd rather have that and see the light at the end of the tunnel , then the mediocre standards we are setting up for ourselves.

I hope I'm wrong on this one...I just don't see much to be very excited about. Hurrah, wildcard positioning , with our top D turning 34 this summer and our goalie turning 31 with 7 years left at 10.5M/year.

Kotka is a good kid and I think he can become a very good player in this league.
Drouin/Domi have been a nice surprise and have good chemistry.
Some of our prospects look very intriguing but none the less these are still not players that look close to dominating the league like others teams have , why are we always the have nots?

As mentioned above , what is more likely , this Habs team eventually winning a cup or anyone of the teams with the following young stars:

Mackinnon/Rantanen/Landeskog
Matthews/Tavares/Marner/Nylander
Scheifele/Laine
McDavid/Draisatl/Nurse
Stamkos/Kucherov/Point (and company)
Eichel/Skinner/Dahlin
Monahan/Tkatchuk
Dubois/Panarin(he's 27 but still has a lot of hockey left in him)/Jones/Werenski
Pettersson/Boeser/ *Potential lottery pick in 2019* (Vancouver has the right idea)

This is the new guard in the NHL moving forward (some later than others) but none the less all teams going in the right direction and this is proven by the league standings.
Where do the Habs realistically fit in moving forward?

Sure you can say "anything can happen" but it's certainly not the ideal way to build a team.

Top 3 in revenue.
Oldest team in the league.
Most winningest franchise in the league.

Are we are going to start hanging division winning banners soon?

 

[admiralcadillac]

I'd rather have that and see the light at the end of the tunnel , then the mediocre standards we are setting up for ourselves.

I hope I'm wrong on this one...I just don't see much to be very excited about. Hurrah, wildcard positioning , with our top D turning 34 this summer and our goalie turning 31 with 7 years left at 10.5M/year.

Kotka is nice.
Drouin/Domi have been a nice surprise and have good chemistry.
Some of our prospects look very intriguing but none the less these are still not players that look close to dominating the league like others teams have , why are we always the have nots?

As mentioned above , what is more likely , this Habs team eventually winning a cup or anyone of the teams with the following young stars:

Mackinnon/Rantanen/Landeskog
Matthews/Tavares/Marner/Nylander
Scheifele/Laine
McDavid/Draisatl/Nurse
Stamkos/Kucherov/Point (and company)
Eichel/Skinner/Dahlin
Monahan/Tkatchuk
Dubois/Panarin/Jones/Werenski
Pettersson/Boeser/ *Potential lottery pick in 2019* (Vancouver has the right idea)

This is the new guard in the NHL moving forward (some later than others) but none the less all teams going in the right direction and this is proven by the league standings.
Where do the Habs realistically fit in moving forward?

I don't get your point, you're comparing talent but not how those teams went about acquiring it now.

You can say the team isn't as good or doesn't have as much talent, and that's fine - but you were talking about generational talents before. Most of those teams listed weren't drafting Crosby's and Ovechkin's, and half of those guys weren't even drafted top 5.

Those teams are going in the right direction - OK. That means that currently they won't be able to draft any more talent according to your standards, and so most of them will be in the purgatory of just not being good enough to win anything.

 

[Habssince89]

I'm not buying any of the tanking talk. By next season, we have an actual pair of top6 C's (Kotka, Domi), youth, depth and adding just Suzuki to our current group changes alot of things (including the PP). Bergevin basically has to acquire a LD (which he can do given our assets) and hope to also get a top6 RW to play with Domi. We have a lot of capspace too. We're not drowning in bad contracts, our team isn't over the hill, it doesn't lack talent (it needs to get more from our pipeline - which has it). We're in a unique position where being in the bubble spot is not a sign that we're spinning our wheels and so on. It's a competitive league, and right now we're competing which is fantastic for the development and culture of this team.

 

[scrubadam]

Citing examples of Colorado and Buffalo both teams who are benefiting from drafting top players , well I'm convinced...

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade it just seems superficial to put our faith in a team being built for perennial "above averageness". Enough to keep the butts in the seat but never realistically good enough to win a Cup...

And hopefully we drafted a top player in KK, and traded for 3 in Domi/Suzuki/Drouin. All were top 15 picks in their own right. Ratenen was drafted 10 OVA. Suzuki and Domi 13 and 12th respectivly not to far off from Ratenen.

I was all for tanking at the begining of the season, but with the players over achieving I would prefer to reward them. Domi may never be this good again I would rather see what he can do in the playoffs then some nebulas future where everyone becomes great at the same magical time.

But the question when is good enough? We got the top 3 last year so it wasn't enough, if we got the 2nd next year is it ok to start to win or we need another 3 top draft picks? Who will turn the light switch so the habs go from a perenial loser to winning a cup. Very few teams go from finishing last to winning a cup the next year so at some point the team is going to have to finish outside the top 5 but not win a cup the same year.

 

[CauZuki]

I don't get your point, you're comparing talent but not how those teams went about acquiring it now.

You can say the team isn't as good or doesn't have as much talent, and that's fine - but you were talking about generational talents before. Most of those teams listed weren't drafting Crosby's and Ovechkin's, and half of those guys weren't even drafted top 5.

Those teams are going in the right direction - OK. That means that currently they won't be able to draft any more talent according to your standards, and so most of them will be in the purgatory of just not being good enough to win anything.

Not at all , it's much easier to acquire complimentary players than it is to acquire young players that are clearly a level above their peers.
Habs are building the team backwards and hoping they get lucky , while being a playoff bubble team. I don't find this produces a good product as our playoff chances are far from a guarantee.
It's easy to get excited about the current Habs team because last year was an absolute disaster , everything that could go wrong did and was in fact the worst season since the introduction of the 82 game schedule. I find it very hard to be excited for the future when we don't ever get a real chance at multiple quality top 3 picks. There are no guarantees in any of these scenarios but there is no denying that our current strategy has worked 0 times since the lockout.

Toronto got lucky but in the end they were toiling in mediocrity for years because the franchise didn't want to tank , they kept acquiring expensive plugs that never lead them anywhere.
Tanking + luck + strong personnel is what makes a team a contender , there are no examples of the contrary scenario , how can anyone put their faith in something that hasn't happened in the modern NHL?