WJC: Don Cherry: "American Development?!"

[Frolov99]

I knew he would whine. Hey Don, Canada holds no major tournament victories.

9 days into the new year.... I'm fine with that.

 

[OilersFaninVan]

So we should just discount all international tournament results now because of single elimination games?

Not saying that at all. I think the Americans won fair and square I also think Canada had a off game. Just my opinion.

Fact is fact thou Canada still produces and develops most NHL stars.

Same time thou just cause you throw bunch Stars on a team does not mean they will win every game! There is still things like chemistry that come into play.

Just funny how some people on here are suddenly convinced cause US won the WJC there will be more talent coming out of US then Canada from here on.

 

[New User Name]

Maybe but we'll never know.

That said, I've never seen any Americans on here, or journalists for that matter, claiming the American development system (HS/USHL/NAHL/NCAA) to be better than the Canadian system based on any of Canada's previous victories in which they had a minority of their players - for a minority of their hockey playing lives - not come from their own system.

People aren't disagreeing that the CHL and the Canadian development system has a big impact on American hockey success and development. That's obvious. It's in the way Cherry and his jingoism try and claim it that people take offense to and point on the glaring over exaggerations or inconsistencies.

Cherry was trashing the Canadian media about how some were/are saying because of the loss, something must be wrong with Canadian hockey.
His points were legitimate.
His points were not anti American.

 

[William H Bonney]

Not saying that at all. I think the Americans won fair and square I also think Canada had a off game. Just my opinion.

Fact is fact thou Canada still produces and develops most NHL stars.

Same time thou just cause you throw bunch Stars on a team does not mean they will win every game! There is still things like chemistry that come into play.

Just funny how some people on here are suddenly convinced cause US won the WJC there will be more talent coming out of US then Canada from here on.

Is anyone disputing that Canada produces the most NHL stars? No.

Is anyone claiming the US is about to eclipse Canada in hockey? No.

Cherry, in loss, was trying to toot Canada's horn once again while giving another country a back handed compliment. Whatever, I get it, that's his gig. But at least don't come off like a moron with illogical points, such as claiming Carslon/Fowler/Morin/Bourque as products of the Canadian development system, because they're not.

If Cherry wanted to really make his point, he would just shown the quote from Dean Blais:

"We played Canadian hockey," coach Dean Blais said. "We played gritty. We learned from the best. It's not an accident you guys have won five straight gold medals."

That is effective and to the point. Another Cherry incoherent rant filled with inaccuracies and double standards is not.

 

[General Borschevsky]

That is effective and to the point. Another Cherry incoherent rant filled with inaccuracies and double standards is not.

Nothing Cherry does is effective and to the point. His rant tonight was pretty much par for the course, but definitely more entertaining than usual. I can't say I took it seriously.

 

[William H Bonney]

Cherry was trashing the Canadian media about how some were/are saying because of the loss, something must be wrong with Canadian hockey.
His points were legitimate.
His points were not anti American.

I understand that. I get what he was ultimately trying to say in that basically nothing is wrong with Hockey Canada, we're developing players at rate we haven't in a long time and even some Americans realize our system and want to come here to develop.

I agree with all that.

I take offense to the delivery (although expected) but more so the distortion of facts. You don't need to twist the truth and use some double standards to make the above points. That's where people get annoyed.

 

[New User Name]

I know I'll get beat up here (but who cares)

If I was Hockey Canada I would continue in the under 18 tournament, because the teams that the Canadian kids play on are out of the playoffs or their teams didn't make the playoffs.

I would STOP sending a team to the WJC--why?

Like the NHL not allowing their eligible players to play for their respective countries as FANS pay to see them.....the same is true of kids being pulled from their junior teams. The teams are in a race for better standings and having those kids not there negatively affects their teams. As a paying customer of a junior team, I pay to see the best of my team, not have a few kids go play in a tournament for 2 or 3 weeks.

If the IIHF wants to have a WJC after the memorial cup, then I'd send a team.

 

[Moobles]

They test teams in a different fashion, but in no less legitimate or complete of a fashion. As such, the team that won is the best team for the purposes of the tournament - which is the whole point.

If we're assuming 'best' is equal to 'better than all other plausible competition', then not necessarily. A 1-game hockey tournament is certainly a very poor way of determining who's the best in any given pool of participants. Especially in hockey, which is arguably more a game of chance than the other 3 major NA sports + soccer (1): 1 game doesn't really determine whether a team is better or worse: not because inherently a game cannot decide that, but because 1 game is a virtually useless sample size.

On a personal level I dislike 1 game tournaments because they don't do their empirical job (determine the best), I realize their normative value is a lot higher than that however (entertainment). This applies to every tournament, including Canada's last 5 wins. You can't qualify with any certainty at all that one of those teams was the best. On a subjective level sure go yell whatever you want, but objectively it's never really been determined (and won't unless they change the format). /rant

That said, some people here seem to be turning this into a "Canadian Hockey Development" vs. "U.S.A Hockey Development". Unlike what some of you would like to think or argue, Canadian and American hockey development are pretty intertwined. There's many good schools across both borders that kids can attend to hone their hockey skills, and coaches and personnel and what have you exist on both sides. Some Americans use Canadian opportunities, others use the ones in America. Kids on both sides of the border play each other in Double A and Triple A tournies and have probably know (of) each other for years.

It also doesn't surprise me at all that more American players are getting better. Remember that 24 teams in the NHL. are set in...surprise, American cities. Players are having kids in...surprise, America. And these kids are likely to grow up with dual-nationalities or- as we saw with some of this kids in this tourny, as Americans. The more that NHL players, NHL personnel, scouts and what not live in America the higher the likelihood they'll produce kids who have a reasonable opportunity to get the things they need to get a shot at entering the NHL.

(1) There's so many variables in hockey I think it's a reasonable statement to make. I don't think it's a major, contentious point though so I'll leave it at that as to why I said that xD

 

[New User Name]

Is anyone disputing that Canada produces the most NHL stars? No.

Is anyone claiming the US is about to eclipse Canada in hockey? No.

Cherry, in loss, was trying to toot Canada's horn once again while giving another country a back handed compliment. Whatever, I get it, that's his gig. But at least don't come off like a moron with illogical points, such as claiming Carslon/Fowler/Morin/Bourque as products of the Canadian development system, because they're not.

If Cherry wanted to really make his point, he would just shown the quote from Dean Blais:



That is effective and to the point. Another Cherry incoherent rant filled with inaccuracies and double standards is not.

I think the video pissed him off....we came to a foreign country and kicked their ass. Okay to say in the dressing room, but to you tube it...nahhhh.

 

[PlagerBros*]

The best part was Don listing the players who are eligible but in the NHL for Canada as an excuse...something he had no issue with on New Years Eve. I also liked when he shot himself in the foot during his list of American players in the CHL leagues (forgetting the 12 or so years of development before the one or two in the CHL leagues) when he mentioned Carlson would be in the OHL...next year. Cherry is amusing but he is a xenophobic jerk.

 

[William H Bonney]

Nothing Cherry does is effective and to the point. His rant tonight was pretty much par for the course, but definitely more entertaining than usual. I can't say I took it seriously.

I understand that but it's the people that do take what he says seriously and to be the truth that I take issue with and there are examples of them posting in this thread.

 

[jessebelanger]

I know I'll get beat up here (but who cares)

If I was Hockey Canada I would continue in the under 18 tournament, because the teams that the Canadian kids play on are out of the playoffs or their teams didn't make the playoffs.

I would STOP sending a team to the WJC--why?

Like the NHL not allowing their eligible players to play for their respective countries as FANS pay to see them.....the same is true of kids being pulled for their junior teams. The teams are in a race for better standings and having those kids not there negatively affects their teams. As a paying customer of a junior team, I pay to see the best of my team, not have a few kids go play in a tournament for 2 or 3 weeks.

If the IIHF wants to have a WJC after the memorial cup, then I'd send a team.

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that the WJC generates significant $$ for the CHL - allowing the teams to operate the way they do.

 

[heatersthebest]

first off don congratulated the americans for winning, then defending his own country for not winning, mentioned that half of the potential team was playing in the NHL.

Secondly he noted that the american players come to the CHL cause they feel it is the best situation for their development as professional hockey players, not knocking the american system, but commenting that many americans have plied their trade in the CHL.

thirdly we cant win it every year, there would then be no need for the tournament.

another note, someone mentioned that the russians were missing a few players, and yah look where that left them, losing to switzerland, plus they didnt take one of their best players in kiril kabanov because he came to the CHL to improve his chances of becoming a pro hockey player

 

[New User Name]

first off don congratulated the americans for winning, then defending his own country for not winning, mentioned that half of the potential team was playing in the NHL.

Secondly he noted that the american players come to the CHL cause they feel it is the best situation for their development as professional hockey players, not knocking the american system, but commenting that many americans have plied their trade in the CHL.

thirdly we cant win it every year, there would then be no need for the tournament.

another note, someone mentioned that the russians were missing a few players, and yah look where that left them, losing to switzerland, plus they didnt take one of their best players in kiril kabanov because he came to the CHL to improve his chances of becoming a pro hockey player

USA hockey used to be that short sighted---glad to see they're not anymore.

 

[William H Bonney]

I think the video pissed him off....we came to a foreign country and kicked their ass. Okay to say in the dressing room, but to you tube it...nahhhh.

I'm sure it did but it shouldn't. As has been reported many times already, that specific chant has existed since the 90s entered the NTDP and was used after big victories and during their training. It wasn't created on the spot against Canada. The US and their players were nothing but classy and complimentary after that game.

Who even videotaped it? I'm pretty sure it was TSN. I'm glad I saw it.

 

[pooleboy]

i believe Canada has 7 medals in the last 5? :S including 5 golds..... The US have wut? Cherry did say the truth, no lies there lol

 

[New User Name]

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that the WJC generates significant $$ for the CHL - allowing the teams to operate the way they do.

True, they make a ton of money when it's here in Canada.

I'm sure some here would be pissed if Canada dropped out because of the reason I gave, but I'm as important (in my opinion) as a season ticket holder as someone in Tampa is.

You want Canada in the tournament, hold it after the Memorial cup.

 

[Stammer Time*]

i believe Canada has 7 medals in the last 5? :S including 5 golds..... The US have wut? Cherry did say the truth, no lies there lol

Which has nothing to do with what is being discussed.

 

[PlagerBros*]

Which has nothing to do with what is being discussed.

Yes but commenting on past medals and saying Cherry is right without saying anything else is all he can come up with since the US won.

 

[Grave]

Where they're trained matters.



5 in a row.



Gloating wouldn.t be good, but 6 in a row is impressive. Just like 5 in a row.



The states has one(well, more than one) Canadian player who went to the states and became good, while the states has 6, or 7 (or however many Cherry listed) that came to Canada to train ?

I'm surprised Cherry left off Hodgsons off that list of players who could have played and didn't.

That being said, Cherry freaking out like that is embarrassing. He needs to calm down before he has a stroke.

Tell that to the hundreds of olympians that come to the US for training in all diferent events/sports.

 

[jessebelanger]

True, they make a ton of money when it's here in Canada.

I'm sure some here would be pissed if Canada dropped out because of the reason I gave, but I'm as important (in my opinion) as a season ticket holder as someone in Tampa is.

You want Canada in the tournament, hold it after the Memorial cup.

Yeah - I guess I can't really relate because I'm not a paying customer of the CHL, but I can understand your frustration.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

So...some people are making fun of Canadians for taking the tournament too seriously, yet they watch the tournament just to see us lose.

What's worse? Enjoying the game thoroughly or watching waiting 5 years just to enjoy it when we lose?

 

[New User Name]

The best part was Don listing the players who are eligible but in the NHL for Canada as an excuse...something he had no issue with on New Years Eve. I also liked when he shot himself in the foot during his list of American players in the CHL leagues (forgetting the 12 or so years of development before the one or two in the CHL leagues) when he mentioned Carlson would be in the OHL...next year. Cherry is amusing but he is a xenophobic jerk.

Actually he did mention it before the tournament started.

The word xenophobic gets thrown around here far too much.

 

[PlagerBros*]

Actually he did mention it before the tournament started.

The word xenophobic gets thrown around here far too much.

As I said he said nothing about it on New Years Eve. So basically, Don mentions it ahead of time as a pre-excuse and then after losing as an excuse.

Xenophobic is the perfect word for Cherry, look what he says about American players, Russian, Swedes, Finns, etc.

 

[New User Name]

As I said he said nothing about it on New Years Eve. So basically, Don mentions it ahead of time as a pre-excuse and then after losing as an excuse.

Xenophobic is the perfect word for Cherry, look what he says about American players, Russian, Swedes, Finns, etc.

I don't recall Don saying anything negative about American players.

He is NOT using it as an excuse--he was responding to some members of the Canadian media saying 'whats wrong with Canadian hockey"