WJC: Don Cherry: "American Development?!"

[Red Dragon]

It's a stupid point. If anyone is seriously arguing for the US development of hockey players over Canada's, they're just trying to stir the pot or they're clueless.

That doesn't mean that there aren't other productive avenues of hockey development outside of the CHL because they are.

Based on Cherry's rant, Toews is a credit to American hockey development. Crosby came to an American high school, as did Toews for hockey. They're products of American hockey development.....See how stupid that sounds?

Most Candians go to the NCAA for the purpose of school, compared to Americans coming to the CHL because they feel it's better for there devlopement towards the NHL. Can't comment on Crosby becasue I'm not familiar with the situation.

 

[hfboardsuser]

Well how about this you let Canada keep all its young players at the draft. US teams can only draft Europeans and US players from here on and will see who wins the stanley cup each year?

It doesn't even have to go that far. The NCAA and USA Hockey has repeatedly been hostile towards the CHL, what with prohibiting players from joining college if they change their mind and not taking American kids to major tournaments if they skip the NTDP. So forget them; make the CHL open only to Canadian kids and Euro imports. We'll quickly see which country benefits from the current arrangement, and I have a feeling it won't be the one who- as Don correctly pointed out- had half their best U20s in the NHL this year.

 

[Heat McManus]

Why does it matter where the American kids play junior hockey? They're still American, regardless...

I guess Toews is really a product of the American Hockey system.

 

[Claypool]

Well how about this you let Canada keep all its young players at the draft. US teams can only draft Europeans and US players from here on and will see who wins the stanley cup each year?

An all-star Canadian Olympic team couldn't even score against Switzerland. What makes you so confident?

 

[rumrokh]

The best team that particular game? Yes. Not the best team though. Toronto beats Washington, that doesn't make them the better team, they were better on that night.

Right, but it was the whole tournament that produced this match-up. It's just like playing a full season and full playoffs to determine the Stanley Cup winner.

I'm not talking about a single game that's basically a random match-up. If you don't trust the ability of the system to test the teams properly, then you shouldn't care who wins or loses because it's at least heavily biased, if not arbitrary.

 

[New User Name]

Most Candians go to the NCAA for the purpose of school, compared to Americans coming to the CHL because they feel it's better for there devlopement towards the NHL. Can't comment on Crosby becasue I'm not familiar with the situation.

Sid attended Shattuck-Saint Mary's School in Minnesota in 2002–2003.
The reason was to get him out of the stupid limelight. (Canadian reporters)
They won the US championship that year too.

 

[Trxjw]

It's a stupid point. If anyone is seriously arguing for the US development of hockey players over Canada's, they're just trying to stir the pot or they're clueless.

That doesn't mean that they other productive avenues of hockey development outside of the CHL don't exist, because they do.

Based on Cherry's rant, Toews is a credit to American hockey development. Crosby came to an American high school, as did Toews for hockey. They're products of American hockey development.....See how stupid that sounds?

Exactly.

This is typical Don Cherry rhetoric and should be treated as such.

The US is developing better players than they had in years past, there's no disputing that.

 

[William H Bonney]

Crosby played one year for Shattuck-St. Mary’s.
You can't seriously compare one year to 5 years.

I'm not. It's still a stupid point. Kids in NA move all around for better opportunities. It's more prudent that kids from the US do so. It was better for Biggs to make that move from Cincinnati for his development, just as Crosby did to Shattuck for a year.

Guys like Crosby and Toews played for longer in the US than Carlson/Fowler/Morin/Bourque ever have in Canada. The Crosby point is just to illuminate how stupid of a point it is.

I understand the ridiculousness of some of the articles I've seen from the Canadian media following the loss, and while his end idea is correct, once again Cherry falls flat on his face in trying to make it there.

 

[SMoneyMonkey]

Don always shakes the pot, so to say. That being said, the first point is obviously true (Canada would have won with Myers, Tavares, Duchene and what not). The second point was just about the development systems, and I think he's quite correct in saying that the CHL is still better than the USHL or the NTDP.

He could have said it in a less inflamatory manner but he's got a good point. Thought both the USHL and NTDP have improved a lot, the CHL is still where the most elite prospects come from and being in the CHL (a much more competitive league) will help players develop faster. Perhaps not quite as much as Cherry is making it out to seem but the USHL and NTDP are definitely not yet on par with the CHL, that's all.

 

[MojoJojo]

He talked about the Canadians in the nhl who could have played and the american players playing in the CHL.

Were any of the Canadians mentioned (ie Tavares) playing for American NHL teams? If so, doesnt that sorta offset the point about the Americans playing for CHL teams?

 

[Fish on The Sand]

They shouldn't be, at least the first point about who Canada was missing. Any fan of the game would realize that.

The second point wasn't really that great. For one, these guys develop all over at different stages of their careers. The "Canadian system" taking credit for guys like Carlson, Fowler, Bourque, Morin, etc. is weak to put it nicely. Not one of those guys has spent more than one season in the CHL.

I'm not sure who he was targeting but I'm assuming it was Canadian journalists.

Cherry is a joke. I'm sure he has no problem taking credit for a guy like Heatley who was born in Germany and played college at Nebraska, or a guy like Paul Kariya, or a guy like Myers who is American but plays for Canada. He's such a joke.

 

[New User Name]

Don always shakes the pot, so to say. That being said, the first point is obviously true (Canada would have won with Myers, Tavares, Duchene and what not). The second point was just about the development systems, and I think he's quite correct in saying that the CHL is still better than the USHL or the NTDP.

He could have said it in a less inflamatory manner but he's got a good point. Thought both the USHL and NTDP have improved a lot, the CHL is still where the most elite prospects come from and being in the CHL (a much more competitive league) will help players develop faster. Perhaps not quite as much as Cherry is making it out to seem but the USHL and NTDP are definitely not yet on par with the CHL, that's all.

Would they have? No one knows. It's speculation.
They probably would have BUT the bottom line is the Americans won gold-----it should end there.

 

[William H Bonney]

Most Candians go to the NCAA for the purpose of school, compared to Americans coming to the CHL because they feel it's better for there devlopement towards the NHL. Can't comment on Crosby becasue I'm not familiar with the situation.

Most go to the route that they grew up wanting to follow or whichever route they feel is best for their development.

If Toews went for school, he would have stayed to get his degree. And yes, I apply that rule to the Americans that go NCAA too.

 

[GPF]

Cool story bro.

and anyhow - he is absolutely right! Same here!

You guys make thaaaaat of a big thing of all of this (I love and even played hockey since I'm a little kid) that it makes you

a) a hockey Canada supporter or

b) (even just feeling offened sometimes by the "it's our game" blabla [and noones elses or what] stuff and signs) that it becomes one of the best nights of the year when you guys loose in whatever tourney in the world

We have a comparable "dumbass-grandpa-tv-guy" in soccer like Cherry is one in Germany and we also cant get rid off him somehow but I feel relieved any time knowing no one else can watch him outside of the country.
Bad luck with Cherry it's a different story ...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hey if we ever took over America's favorite pass time, I wouldn't blame you to be arrogant and have a "sense of entitlement".

That's not my point here in this context.

My point here is that some are taking these remarks as a license to disparage another country's accomplishments in 'their' sport as if it somehow diminishes what they've done.

There's plenty of Canadians AND Americans that know better, and yes, we're well aware that plenty of our players are going through a Canadian development system.

And no, if Canada somehow became amazing at American football, baseball, or soccer, I'd be cheering on the fact that another nation is joining in and a chance to grow the game, not *****ing that they trained in America. I'm sick of hearing it's JUST Canada's game; it's the world's game. Get over it.

 

[Red Dragon]

Right, but it was the whole tournament that produced this match-up. It's just like playing a full season and full playoffs to determine the Stanley Cup winner.

I'm not talking about a single game that's basically a random match-up. If you don't trust the ability of the system to test the teams properly, then you shouldn't care who wins or loses because it's at least heavily biased, if not arbitrary.

A 7 game tournament is different than an 82 game season plus 16-28 game playoffs. Tournaments are exciting because they are so unpredicatable, Switzerland who would have thought. Wasn't at all upset to see them lose. I was just replying to a post and making a valid point.

 

[OilersFaninVan]

An all-star Canadian Olympic team couldn't even score against Switzerland. What makes you so confident?

One big difference between WJC, the Olympics and NHL playoffs its not one game of do or die. Teams can have a off game and they are done. You cant sit there and tell me the Swiss are a better team then Canadians cause they beat us at one game??

 

[Claypool]

One big difference between WJC, the Olympics and NHL playoffs its not one game of do or die. Teams can have a off game and they are done. You cant sit there and tell me the Swiss are a better team then Canadians cause they beat us at one game??

So we should just discount all international tournament results now because of single elimination games?

 

[rumrokh]

A 7 game tournament is different than an 82 game season plus 16-28 game playoffs. Tournaments are exciting because they are so unpredicatable, Switzerland who would have thought. Wasn't at all upset to see them lose. I was just replying to a post and making a valid point.

They test teams in a different fashion, but in no less legitimate or complete of a fashion. As such, the team that won is the best team for the purposes of the tournament - which is the whole point.

 

[New User Name]

I'm sure if the roles were reversed many Americans would be saying the same thing.

The point is Hockey Canada knows the rules BEFORE participating in this tournament and the under 18's and accept the risks (if there are any)
If Hockey Canada thought it was so unfair (they don't) then just drop out---it's that simple.

 

[Red Dragon]

Don always shakes the pot, so to say. That being said, the first point is obviously true (Canada would have won with Myers, Tavares, Duchene and what not). The second point was just about the development systems, and I think he's quite correct in saying that the CHL is still better than the USHL or the NTDP.

He could have said it in a less inflamatory manner but he's got a good point. Thought both the USHL and NTDP have improved a lot, the CHL is still where the most elite prospects come from and being in the CHL (a much more competitive league) will help players develop faster. Perhaps not quite as much as Cherry is making it out to seem but the USHL and NTDP are definitely not yet on par with the CHL, that's all.

Thank you! Majority of posters misunderstand or chose not to understand what Don is saying. He isn't the best with words, but people just jump to a conclusion when it comes to Don Cherry.

 

[DAkings20]

haha I love Milbury

 

[New User Name]

haha I love Milbury

yeah real tough, challenging a 75 year old man

 

[William H Bonney]

I'm sure if the roles were reversed many Americans would saying the same thing.

The point is Hockey Canada knows the rules BEFORE participating in this tournament and the under 18's and accept the risks (if there are any)
If Hockey Canada thought it was so unfair (they don't) then just drop out---it's that simple.

Maybe but we'll never know.

That said, I've never seen any Americans on here, or journalists for that matter, claiming the American development system (HS/USHL/NAHL/NCAA) to be better than the Canadian system based on any of Canada's previous victories in which they had a minority of their players - for a minority of their hockey playing lives - not come from their own system.

People aren't disagreeing that the CHL and the Canadian development system has a big impact on American hockey success and development. That's obvious. It's in the way Cherry and his jingoism try and claim it that people take offense to and point on the glaring over exaggerations or inconsistencies.

 

[Analyzer*]

Why does it matter where the American kids play junior hockey? They're still American, regardless...

Where they're trained matters.

Don Cherry is the reason why other countries LOVE to see Canada lose in hockey.

THAT'S WHY THIS WIN FEELS SOOOO GOOD!!!!

How you like that, Don????

USA!!!!!

5 in a row.

It goes both ways. If Canada won I am sure people where would be gloating about something they had nothing to do with.

Gloating wouldn.t be good, but 6 in a row is impressive. Just like 5 in a row.

Exactly.

This is typical Don Cherry rhetoric and should be treated as such.

The US is developing better players than they had in years past, there's no disputing that.

The states has one(well, more than one) Canadian player who went to the states and became good, while the states has 6, or 7 (or however many Cherry listed) that came to Canada to train ?

I'm surprised Cherry left off Hodgsons off that list of players who could have played and didn't.

That being said, Cherry freaking out like that is embarrassing. He needs to calm down before he has a stroke.