Does Sullivan still have his job?

[DesertedPenguin]

Rutherford just signed an extension in the fall. He's not going anywhere. Sullivan may only have a year left on his deal, but any question about his future is immediately shot down by those covering the team.

Remember, there was open speculation about Mike Johnston's future before he was fired. Everyone knew Bylsma was done when the Pens lost to the Rangers in 2014. That's not the case now with Sullivan. Fans may be unhappy, but that doesn't mean a change is coming.

They'll change the players first. If that doesn't work, then the seat will get warm for Sullivan and Rutherford.

 

[Shady Machine]

The O’Reilly trade was probably one of the worst over the last decade. Buffalo fans don’t seem that happy with Botts.

Every GM makes a bad trade and I don't know all of the details behind that one, but there were rumors of a rift and all that. I'll just list the trades he has made:

-Montour (the type of D we should be targeting) for Guhle and 1st
-Skinner for 2nd, 3rd, and 6th. Great trade although seems unlikely they can keep him
-Berglund, Sobotka, Thompson, 1st, 2nd for O'Reilly. I think he missed out by Thompson being the best prospect and the other 2 were essentially cap dumps. I'll agree not a good trade.
-Hunwick, Sheary for a conditional 4th. I like Sheary so it's a good trade for Buffalo

There are more but the general theme is he targeted good skaters with skill. JR has generally gone the opposite direction trading or letting go of speed in favor of bigger players with jam. Some have skill, some less so.

Main point isn't to say Botts is the bees knees, I just find the direction curious and Botts seems to still be getting the same type of players JR was getting while Botts was around.

 

[Pens x]

Every GM makes a bad trade and I don't know all of the details behind that one, but there were rumors of a rift and all that. I'll just list the trades he has made:

-Montour (the type of D we should be targeting) for Guhle and 1st
-Skinner for 2nd, 3rd, and 6th. Great trade although seems unlikely they can keep him
-Berglund, Sobotka, Thompson, 1st, 2nd for O'Reilly. I think he missed out by Thompson being the best prospect and the other 2 were essentially cap dumps. I'll agree not a good trade.
-Hunwick, Sheary for a conditional 4th. I like Sheary so it's a good trade for Buffalo

There are more but the general theme is he targeted good skaters with skill. JR has generally gone the opposite direction trading or letting go of speed in favor of bigger players with jam. Some have skill, some less so.

Main point isn't to say Botts is the bees knees, I just find the direction curious and Botts seems to still be getting the same type of players JR was getting while Botts was around.

All good points.

I think Botts will be terminated in a year, so who knows. Botts and Shero are really doing a terrible job; as is Rutherford.

 

[BladeRunner66]

Personally, I don’t care what they do. Won’t be upset if they keep him, won’t complain if they dump him. But what I would like to see happen if they keep him is for him and GMJR to get on the same ****ing page. Because they clearly are not right now and really haven’t been since the moment Tom Wilson began smashing into players. That sent GMJR into stupid mode ever since, which has led to a ridiculously structured team with no real identity at all.

I was watching the game on the CBC feed tonight, and toward the end, they kept showing Mario... he looked PISSED. Not sure if that’ll lead to anything but he was not happy.

It's a + in my book, that should lead to more pressure from the top to change things around, hopefully on and off-ice major changes.

 

[Khelandros]

We don't know anything for sure, but WBS was a well oiled machine and consistent playoff contender with Botts at the helm. Guerin gets in there and they have struggled, relatively speaking. Plus he seems to prefer big dudes over skating (generalizing here). My concern is what type of team does he want to build and does it fit with the one Sully and the stars want to play?

Botts hasn't had instant success in Buffalo, but he's made a lot of good trades during his tenure there so far and they seem to fit with the kind of trades JR was making in 2016 and 2017. Makes you wonder how much influence he had on JR and how much influence Guerin has on JR since Botts left.

Don't get me wrong, I think letting Botterill go was probably one of the dumbest things I've seen this franchise ever do. Extending JR was a mistake when they had Botterill and Guerin waiting in the wings. They should have stuck to the original 2 year plan with JR and then made the transition to either Botterill or Guerin. I agree with most posters that JR has reverted back to his Carolina days of building a roster.

 

[BladeRunner66]

Don't get me wrong, I think letting Botterill go was probably one of the dumbest things I've seen this franchise ever do. Extending JR was a mistake when they had Botterill and Guerin waiting in the wings. They should have stuck to the original 2 year plan with JR and then made the transition to either Botterill or Guerin. I agree with most posters that JR has reverted back to his Carolina days of building a roster.

Good post but i strongly disagree with the Guerin option. Botterill probably asked for what he thought he was worth and was dismissed for JR's experience like Guerin, well we're now full of experience and not better with at all but it seemed Botterill was the next one at the time, making it that much frustrating.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I hope moving forward they clear some of the mud out of the water and just go with one flippin' clearly defined GM. This "in-waiting" stuff seems unnecessary and probably doesn't help when it comes to coming up with a cohesive and unified vision for the team.

 

[Gurglesons]

Every GM makes a bad trade and I don't know all of the details behind that one, but there were rumors of a rift and all that. I'll just list the trades he has made:

-Montour (the type of D we should be targeting) for Guhle and 1st
-Skinner for 2nd, 3rd, and 6th. Great trade although seems unlikely they can keep him
-Berglund, Sobotka, Thompson, 1st, 2nd for O'Reilly. I think he missed out by Thompson being the best prospect and the other 2 were essentially cap dumps. I'll agree not a good trade.
-Hunwick, Sheary for a conditional 4th. I like Sheary so it's a good trade for Buffalo

There are more but the general theme is he targeted good skaters with skill. JR has generally gone the opposite direction trading or letting go of speed in favor of bigger players with jam. Some have skill, some less so.

Main point isn't to say Botts is the bees knees, I just find the direction curious and Botts seems to still be getting the same type of players JR was getting while Botts was around.

Beaulieu, Scandella, etc.

 

[Pens x]

Botts has been pretty crappy overall; I’m a bit surprised.

 

[Pens x]

I don’t know how anyone that saw the Pens in the playoffs this year thinks bringing back Sullivan is a good idea.

Maybe Sully will resign on the condition they hire Simon as his replacement. Lord knows Sully believes Simon is the key to success.

 

[Joejosh999]

How do we feel about Martin? I thought he did a great job w the D last several seasons, including cobbling together the likes of Hainsey et al to help them win Cups.
Has his role changed? The D has sure changed.
Tocchet is gone, but he was never D.
Recchi is a Friend of Mario and don’t see what he brings.

I’m confused about Martin. The D fell off so badly.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don’t know how anyone that saw the Pens in the playoffs this year thinks bringing back Sullivan is a good idea.

Maybe Sully will resign on the condition they hire Simon as his replacement. Lord knows Sully believes Simon is the key to success.

You got any replacement ideas?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

How do we feel about Martin? I thought he did a great job w the D last several seasons, including cobbling together the likes of Hainsey et al to help them win Cups.
Has his role changed? The D has sure changed.
Tocchet is gone, but he was never D.
Recchi is a Friend of Mario and don’t see what he brings.

I’m confused about Martin. The D fell off so badly.

It's tough to really say. But honestly Martin/Gonchar/whoever sure doesn't have a wealth of talent to work with thanks to JR.

At this point the whole assistant coaching staff should be shitcanned, regardless.

 

[BillPrep]

if sullivan wont/cant adapt/adopt a system that the players he has can play, he should be fired...

I get that JR gave him lemons, but JR didnt make him try to employ the same system, over and over and over, expecting the players who were incapable of 'getting it' (mentally, physically, whatever...) to suddenly 'get it'...

if we fire JR and a new GM can play rumpelstiltskin to this pile of shit (2nd highest paid D...f*** me...) and get players sullivan needs to play his system, ok...I still worry about a coach that isnt willing to change his system when it's obvious a change in needed to succeed...

*EDIT - forgot...theres some VAST desert space only scant miles from my home in AZ if'n ANY ass-coaches need 'disappearing'...

 

[Andy99]

Since this is a Sullivan thread, thought people might want to hear this Pens fan’s indictment of the coaching staff, not dissimilar to what some people on here are saying...

 

[tom_servo]

Not a proponent of firing Sullivan yet but I am a believer that coaches are kind of disposable and even a good one can approach worthlessness for a roster.

That said, from a fan's perspective, it's tough to accept a successful "program" going south so quickly. Sullivan is the coach we all wanted, and even he might overstay his welcome in short time.

 

[BHD]

In response to @Honour Over Glory from the other thread...

Nelson would probably want someone who he worked with Grand Rapids or OKC (AHL). However, we could still see the organization push a former-Pen onto the staff.

Also, I don't see Keefe coming here unless it's to be the HC. The Marlies have been super competitive, highlighted by winning the Calder Cup, since he took over. So I don't think the staff would include Nelson AND Keefe. Of course, this is IF they do make a change behind the bench.

 

[Turin]

I re-assign or fire Recchi first.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah, I'd keep Sully.

Insubordinate players... higher ups..

This is about where I see Sully.

 

[Killahpunk]

Sully probably has another 40 to 50 games left in his run.

JR probably has another season left maybe he finally retires next summer.

 

[JTG]

Yeah, I think Sully has a job for the foreseeable future.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

In response to @Honour Over Glory from the other thread...

Nelson would probably want someone who he worked with Grand Rapids or OKC (AHL). However, we could still see the organization push a former-Pen onto the staff.

Also, I don't see Keefe coming here unless it's to be the HC. The Marlies have been super competitive, highlighted by winning the Calder Cup, since he took over. So I don't think the staff would include Nelson AND Keefe. Of course, this is IF they do make a change behind the bench.

Yeah, it would be a dream team though of fresh blood.

But speaking of his assistants.

Bruce Ramsay hasn't been doing anything since last season.
Mike Knuble is still an assistant with Grand Rapids, those two and Ben Simon were the assistants there (well Ben Simon was there for a year).

Gary Fleming? I'd pass, the dude has done nothing with his opportunity as a head coach lol. But it could be a better as an assistant and not as a HC sort of thing with him.

Then there's this guy, Tony Borgford, this dude was a video coach in the NHL for a very long time, then was a Team Manager (what is that?) and Assistant Coach. Hasn't done anything since last season.

I think Todd Nelson picking his own guys and no Penguins alumni is fine, let the guy pick his own guys. Whereas I think Sullivan might actually pick worse people, the best assistant he had was a pens appointed one, then a moron replaced that one.

 

[Gurglesons]

Since this is a Sullivan thread, thought people might want to hear this Pens fan’s indictment of the coaching staff, not dissimilar to what some people on here are saying...

This guy is an idiot. Also, has the ugliest Pens Jersey and then a Caps and Bruins jersey behind him. GTFO.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah, it would be a dream team though of fresh blood.

But speaking of his assistants.

Bruce Ramsay hasn't been doing anything since last season.
Mike Knuble is still an assistant with Grand Rapids, those two and Ben Simon were the assistants there (well Ben Simon was there for a year).

Gary Fleming? I'd pass, the dude has done nothing with his opportunity as a head coach lol. But it could be a better as an assistant and not as a HC sort of thing with him.

Then there's this guy, Tony Borgford, this dude was a video coach in the NHL for a very long time, then was a Team Manager (what is that?) and Assistant Coach. Hasn't done anything since last season.

I think Todd Nelson picking his own guys and no Penguins alumni is fine, let the guy pick his own guys. Whereas I think Sullivan might actually pick worse people, the best assistant he had was a pens appointed one, then a moron replaced that one.

You think Sullivan is responsible for Recchi?

Probably responsible for Stevens too eh?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You think Sullivan is responsible for Recchi?

Probably responsible for Stevens too eh?

You know how I know you're trying so hard to champion your boy Sully?

You literally replied to a post of mine with @BHD that had nothing to do with Sullivan and was talking about Nelson and his assistants.