Does Sullivan still have his job?

[Shockmaster]

???

How do you come to this conclusion? Is this emotion-driven stuff because we just got swept? Show me a reputable source that corroborates the idea that Sullivan is responsible for the additions of these big, slow, vanilla and/or downright terrible hockey players and I'll concede. The only one I can think of is Ian Cole's departure, and that's because he threw a tantrum at being scratched during a bad stretch of play. He got into it with Sully who runs a "shut up and play" lockerroom/bench. You think Ian Cole would be around if he got into it with Laviolette? Coach Q? Babcock? Trotz?

C'mon, guys. Sully's not perfect but I don't think there's a guy out there who could do nearly as good a job. Not with Coach Q in Florida now at least.

If anything, it seems like there's little to no communication between our coach and GM. That's another huge problem. Sully runs a system that emphasizes fast, aggressive hockey and a blueline that can get pucks out and up to forwards quickly--either through skating or passing. JR's just going after guys that make absolutely no sense with regard to that approach. It's like he's acting alone and independent of any sort of input or regard to his coach.

Even if the Penguins get faster, they still may not be the fastest team. Sullivan needs a plan B regardless. He can't keep thinking he still has the same team from 2016.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Even if the Penguins get faster, they still may not be the fastest team. Sullivan needs a plan B regardless. He can't keep thinking he still has the same team from 2016.

It's not about being the fastest team though. It's about playing a fast/aggressive style. That's not a skating speed thing. That's a "get pucks out of our zone and into an attacking state asap" thing, and we're not built to do it anymore because we forsake the winning style of play in favor of "pushback", whatever the heck that is.

There is no plan B for a blueline that's wholly inept when it comes to skating/passing pucks out of danger, which is the catalyst by which this team (and now the majority of the NHL) runs. No coach can get positive results from a blueline that's got Maatta, JJ, Gudbranson and the ghost of Justin Schultz when facing a fast-playing, aggressive team. It just ain't happenin', and that's why you've got teams like LA and NJ toiling away at the bottom of the league, because an aggressive forecheck and quick counter style of play decimates those kinds of lineups.

 

[Andy99]

???

How do you come to this conclusion? Is this emotion-driven stuff because we just got swept? Show me a reputable source that corroborates the idea that Sullivan is responsible for the additions of these big, slow, vanilla and/or downright terrible hockey players and I'll concede. The only one I can think of is Ian Cole's departure, and that's because he threw a tantrum at being scratched during a bad stretch of play. He got into it with Sully who runs a "shut up and play" lockerroom/bench. You think Ian Cole would be around if he got into it with Laviolette? Coach Q? Babcock? Trotz?

C'mon, guys. Sully's not perfect but I don't think there's a guy out there who could do nearly as good a job. Not with Coach Q in Florida now at least.

If anything, it seems like there's little to no communication between our coach and GM. That's another huge problem. Sully runs a system that emphasizes fast, aggressive hockey and a blueline that can get pucks out and up to forwards quickly--either through skating or passing. JR's just going after guys that make absolutely no sense with regard to that approach. It's like he's acting alone and independent of any sort of input or regard to his coach.

Sully was instrumental in pushing JR to get Hags and Brass, as the GM said, and I think it’s well reported that he wanted Cole and Reaves out ..and Sprong...to say he has no impact on moves JR makes is just not true...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sully was instrumental in pushing JR to get Hags and Brass, as the GM said, and I think it’s well reported that he wanted Cole and Reaves out ..and Sprong...to say he has no impact on moves JR makes is just not true...

I'm asking you to cite this stuff. Otherwise it's hearsay and rumor driven by people who are frustrated.

Cole butted heads with the coach. No player short of a franchise cornerstone wins that battle, especially if they're on an expiring contract. That's the facts. Cole had a rough stretch of play and probably didn't respond well to criticism and being sat, barked at Sully, and that was it. Let's not act like the exact same scenario wouldn't play out with any number of "authority figure" coaches like Babcock, Laviolette, Coach Q, etc.

Reaves didn't fit the system Sully runs, and he probably didn't like how much Reaves loves to talk. I don't blame him for scratching Reaves--that was one of JR's stupid moves that didn't fit at all with what we were trying to do. What a terrible, knee-jerk reaction by JR there. Yikes.

Sprong had to beat out Hornqvist, Kessel and Rust for a RW spot in our top-9. It wasn't happening. I was as excited about the kid's potential as anyone, but he just wasn't capable of outplaying his competition, and he was wholly unfit for a 4th line role. Again, I'd have loved to see us work the guy in and give him a shot because I do think he's capable of being an effective top-9 guy who can produce, but he just never had a shot with our roster composition. That's not a Sullivan issue either, regardless of how badly a person wants it to be.

 

[Andy99]

I'm asking you to cite this stuff. Otherwise it's hearsay and rumor driven by people who are frustrated.

Cole butted heads with the coach. No player short of a franchise cornerstone wins that battle, especially if they're on an expiring contract. That's the facts. Cole had a rough stretch of play and probably didn't respond well to criticism and being sat, barked at Sully, and that was it. Let's not act like the exact same scenario wouldn't play out with any number of "authority figure" coaches like Babcock, Laviolette, Coach Q, etc.

Reaves didn't fit the system Sully runs, and he probably didn't like how much Reaves loves to talk. I don't blame him for scratching Reaves--that was one of JR's stupid moves that didn't fit at all with what we were trying to do. What a terrible, knee-jerk reaction by JR there. Yikes.

Sprong had to beat out Hornqvist, Kessel and Rust for a RW spot in our top-9. It wasn't happening. I was as excited about the kid's potential as anyone, but he just wasn't capable of outplaying his competition, and he was wholly unfit for a 4th line role. Again, I'd have loved to see us work the guy in and give him a shot because I do think he's capable of being an effective top-9 guy who can produce, but he just never had a shot with our roster composition. That's not a Sullivan issue either, regardless of how badly a person wants it to be.

No one’s going write an article that says that with quotes from anyone of importance ... come on .... but it’s been stated enough by Mackey in his chats and other people on here who have connections...it wasn’t exactly a state secret that Sully didn’t like Cole, didn’t like Sprong and didn’t want Reaves on his roster...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

No one’s going write an article that says that with quotes from anyone of importance ... come on .... but it’s been stated enough by Mackey in his chats and other people on here who have connections...it wasn’t exactly a state secret that Sully didn’t like Cole, didn’t like Sprong and didn’t want Reaves on his roster...

Mackey's an absolute dolt, though. He's a near-Rossi level dunce and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Of course Sully didn't like Cole after he threw a fit after being scratched during a stretch of terrible play, no coach would stand for that. Particularly one who preaches the "Shut your mouth, do your job" mentality. Of course Sully didn't want Reaves on this roster. He's a 4th line goon who runs his mouth all game, essentially doing the polar opposite of what Sully wants his roster to do--shut up and play. JR got Reaves in a panicky, knee-jerk reaction to Tom Wilson doing whatever he wanted to. Tom Wilson lives rent free inside JR's mind, and has since our second of back to backs. It doesn't really matter if Sully liked Sprong or not. I could definitely see how Sprong's cockiness wouldn't be Sully's favorite, but it doesn't matter. Sprong wasn't going to beat out Horny, Kessel or Rust for a top-9 RW role, and he's not a 4th liner. He wasn't going to make his way here, and his trade was the best thing for all parties involved. We got a solid defenseman for a guy who wasn't going to make it here, and Sprong got moved to a team where he'll have a better chance to carve out his niche at the NHL level.

Nobody's pinpointed anything that Sully's done so egregiously that he should be fired. Cole? Every coach does the same thing, and Cole ends up being moved because he's on an expiring contract. Sprong? C'mon man. Reaves? Yikes.

JR's the real issue. Plain and simple. People just don't want to accept the fact that there's a very real possibility that Botterill was the brains behind those back to back Cups, and as soon as Botterill left (May 2017, immediately before the summer the idiotic moves began) we started to see this divergence from the succinct style of play, instead becoming this directionless team that seemingly makes moves for no reason and with no discussion between the coaching staff and the GM. Sully implemented the style and system the entire NHL is adopting because it was so successful, and JR took that and drove it into the ground in favor of some NHL circa 2003 style of slow, vanilla, terrible players.

I wonder if people genuinely remember what an idiotic, truly witless coach is like. We had Bylsma for half a decade too long, and we had Johnston immediately before Sully. Yet people think Sully is some kind of dunce and witless clown? Oof.

 

[Shockmaster]

It's not about being the fastest team though. It's about playing a fast/aggressive style. That's not a skating speed thing. That's a "get pucks out of our zone and into an attacking state asap" thing, and we're not built to do it anymore because we forsake the winning style of play in favor of "pushback", whatever the heck that is.

There is no plan B for a blueline that's wholly inept when it comes to skating/passing pucks out of danger, which is the catalyst by which this team (and now the majority of the NHL) runs. No coach can get positive results from a blueline that's got Maatta, JJ, Gudbranson and the ghost of Justin Schultz when facing a fast-playing, aggressive team. It just ain't happenin', and that's why you've got teams like LA and NJ toiling away at the bottom of the league, because an aggressive forecheck and quick counter style of play decimates those kinds of lineups.

If the Pens aren't the fastest team, then playing a fast/aggressive style against faster teams seems really counter productive.

No matter what moves are made, Sullivan needs to be better at adjusting and having a back-up plan.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If the Pens aren't the fastest team, then playing a fast/aggressive style against faster teams seems really counter productive.

No matter what moves are made, Sullivan needs to be better at adjusting and having a back-up plan.

I just don't think you understand that it's simply not possible to play against a fast, aggressive team with this blueline. It's just not possible when JJ's a brainless idiot, Maatta skates like a hungover beer leaguer, Gudbranson can't move pucks out of danger with his skating or his passing, and Schultz pretty much requires a significantly better partner than we can give him in order to function at his highest level.

What does Sully need to do in order to have these guys play an effective, successful brand of hockey in the face of an aggressive forecheck and a team taking away time and space in the neutral zone? I just don't see an answer. Do we trap it up and go back to a Johnston style of muddled hockey that neutralizes Sid, Geno, Jake, etc.? How's that any better? No adjustments would satisfy the "Sully's a problem" crowd because their stance is not one that's based in reality anyway.

Sully's doomed regardless, and it's entirely due to the roster JR has put together in the years following our second of back to back Cups. The old man's a rudderless ship, just floating along, doing whatever without any regard to properly building a team.

Give me a roster that isn't pockmarked with glaring holes, and is fit to play the modern NHL style of aggressive, fast play. If a Sully-led team fails under those conditions, fine. Look elsewhere. Until then? I refuse to put Sully above any number of other issues facing this organization. The GM being at the absolute top of that list.

And it's not necessarily about skating speed. It's about being able to play fast. At our best during the JR/Sully era, we didn't have a dramatically faster team. We just had a team that was great on the forecheck, great at counter-attack hockey, and great in transition. Hagelin has wheels for days, but he wasn't some prolific scorer. Bonino was essential to our third line, and he's not exactly fleet of foot. Hornqvist's never been a stellar skater. The difference was that we had a blueline that could get pucks out of danger and going the other way in a hurry, either with their legs or their passing. That element is completely gone, and it's crushed this team's chances at success. That's no Sully issue.

 

[Turin]

I think it’s so silly reading the narrative about wanting Sully to adjust to a bad defense that can’t move the puck. Years ago we wanted a team identity that played to the cores strengths. Why would we get on Sully for trying to do that when JR is roster building to combat f***ing irrelevant Tom Wilson and to live in 2006 nostalgia? Sullivan should die on the hill of aggressive hockey.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think it’s so silly reading the narrative about wanting Sully to adjust to a bad defense that can’t move the puck. Years ago we wanted a team identity that played to the cores strengths. Why would we get on Sully for trying to do that when JR is roster building to combat ****ing irrelevant Tom Wilson and to live in 2006 nostalgia? Sullivan should die on the hill of aggressive hockey.

The "Sully just needs to coach better despite a woefully inept blueline outside of Dumo-Letang" is like the "Sid and Geno just need to score despite having Mike Comrie and Taylor Pyatt in the top-6", or the "Murray's gotta make that save on the 9th odd man rush for the opposition this period" stuff. It's just emotion-based frustration stuff.

 

[Shockmaster]

I just don't think you understand that it's simply not possible to play against a fast, aggressive team with this blueline. It's just not possible when JJ's a brainless idiot, Maatta skates like a hungover beer leaguer, Gudbranson can't move pucks out of danger with his skating or his passing, and Schultz pretty much requires a significantly better partner than we can give him in order to function at his highest level.

Seemed to work well in March. Then they stopped doing it when players got healthy.

What does Sully need to do in order to have these guys play an effective, successful brand of hockey in the face of an aggressive forecheck and a team taking away time and space in the neutral zone? I just don't see an answer. Do we trap it up and go back to a Johnston style of muddled hockey that neutralizes Sid, Geno, Jake, etc.? How's that any better? No adjustments would satisfy the "Sully's a problem" crowd because their stance is not one that's based in reality anyway.

So basically the only systematic options for the Penguins are Johnston's style and the style they played in 2016? You seem to be approaching this with a very narrow perspective.

Sully's doomed regardless, and it's entirely due to the roster JR has put together in the years following our second of back to back Cups. The old man's a rudderless ship, just floating along, doing whatever without any regard to properly building a team.

Give me a roster that isn't pockmarked with glaring holes, and is fit to play the modern NHL style of aggressive, fast play. If a Sully-led team fails under those conditions, fine. Look elsewhere. Until then? I refuse to put Sully above any number of other issues facing this organization. The GM being at the absolute top of that list.

So the Islanders are a perfect team with no holes and an elite defense? That's where coaching comes into play. One coach played a system to minimize his team's weaknesses, the other was stuck 3 years in the past.

And it's not necessarily about skating speed. It's about being able to play fast. At our best during the JR/Sully era, we didn't have a dramatically faster team. We just had a team that was great on the forecheck, great at counter-attack hockey, and great in transition. Hagelin has wheels for days, but he wasn't some prolific scorer. Bonino was essential to our third line, and he's not exactly fleet of foot. Hornqvist's never been a stellar skater. The difference was that we had a blueline that could get pucks out of danger and going the other way in a hurry, either with their legs or their passing. That element is completely gone, and it's crushed this team's chances at success. That's no Sully issue.

With Letang, Dumoulin, and Schultz still on the team, that element isn't gone at all.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Seemed to work well in March. Then they stopped doing it when players got healthy.

If short stints of regular season success meant playoff victories, Buffalo would still be playing hockey. This team's been critically flawed since Botterill left and we decided to let guys like Hainsey, Bonino, Daley, etc. go and we never replaced them with guys who are a proper fit. We doubled down on stupid and went after the Reaves, the Oleksiaks, the Pearsons, the JJs, the Sheahans, etc. That ain't on Sully, no matter how badly you want to point the finger at the coach. JR's a directionless fraud.

So basically the only systematic options for the Penguins are Johnston's style and the style they played in 2016? You seem to be approaching this with a very narrow perspective.

What are the alternatives? You're giving me "Just do the coaching good, Sully!" stuff without any sort of specifics. How does one take an immobile and impotent blueline in terms of skating/passing the puck out of danger and up to the forwards, and coach that group to success in the current NHL landscape which is dominated by aggressive, fast, attacking teams? We got into the playoffs because Sid, Jake, Letang and Murray carried this exceedingly mediocre roster on their back for long stretches of the regular season, and promptly got bounced because we were never a real contender to begin with. Imagine that, a team that lived or died by the play of three or four guys didn't have success in the playoffs.

So the Islanders are a perfect team with no holes and an elite defense? That's where coaching comes into play. One coach played a system to minimize his team's weaknesses, the other was stuck 3 years in the past.

You nailed it. I said the Isles are perfect in every way.

In reality; One coach has been stoking his team's fire for "Nobody respects us, everyone wrote us off after JT left, prove them wrong" all season while implementing an aggressive forecheck and a suffocating defensive style. One coach tried to make due with a miserably put together blueline that's wholly unfit for modern NHL play. JJ and Maatta probably aren't even NHLers at this stage of their careers and with regard to the style the NHL is trending. Gudbranson can't do much with the puck, but at least he's not prone to heinous mistakes on a shift-by-shift basis like the other two. Good luck "just coaching" that group to being successful. We got by with an aging, declining Daley and Ron Hainsey playing big minutes because, while they were not phenomenal players, they were able to execute the gameplan. They could either skate or chip pucks out of danger and up to the forwards to get the offense going the other way. Our blueline, as currently constructed, is incapable of doing that with two of the three pairings. I don't know how else to convey the issue to you, and feel like I'm talking to a wall. Presented with all the evidence and reasoning in the world, you and others respond with "Uh, just coach better, Sully" and it's just not even worth my time anymore.

With Letang, Dumoulin, and Schultz still on the team, that element isn't gone at all.

Dumo and Letang form our only legitimate pairing. Schultz needs a significant partner in order to get the most out of his game, and we don't have that. Petts is a bottom pairing guy who is still developing in his own right, and was prone to some miserable play himself. JJ and Maatta probably don't even belong in the NHL at this point. Gudbranson is what he is, a relic of a bygone era with big, physical, but immobile guys--and they've been phased out because everyone skates circles around those types nowadays, or takes away any and all space so Gudbranson can't even get pucks out with his passing anymore.

 

[Shockmaster]

If short stints of regular season success meant playoff victories, Buffalo would still be playing hockey. This team's been critically flawed since Botterill left and we decided to let guys like Hainsey, Bonino, Daley, etc. go and we never replaced them with guys who are a proper fit. We doubled down on stupid and went after the Reaves, the Oleksiaks, the Pearsons, the JJs, the Sheahans, etc. That ain't on Sully, no matter how badly you want to point the finger at the coach. JR's a directionless fraud.

There is this thing called the salary cap. Don't know if you heard of it, but it would have made retaining every player from 2016 and 2017 impossible.

What are the alternatives? You're giving me "Just do the coaching good, Sully!" stuff without any sort of specifics. How does one take an immobile and impotent blueline in terms of skating/passing the puck out of danger and up to the forwards, and coach that group to success in the current NHL landscape which is dominated by aggressive, fast, attacking teams? We got into the playoffs because Sid, Jake, Letang and Murray carried this exceedingly mediocre roster on their back for long stretches of the regular season, and promptly got bounced because we were never a real contender to begin with. Imagine that, a team that lived or died by the play of three or four guys didn't have success in the playoffs.

You keep calling it "immobile and impotent" despite the fact having Letang, Dumoulin, and Schultz are anything but that. And if the Penguins aren't an aggressive team, then why do they pinch so much?

You nailed it. I said the Isles are perfect in every way.

In reality; One coach has been stoking his team's fire for "Nobody respects us, everyone wrote us off after JT left, prove them wrong" all season while implementing an aggressive forecheck and a suffocating defensive style. One coach tried to make due with a miserably put together blueline that's wholly unfit for modern NHL play. JJ and Maatta probably aren't even NHLers at this stage of their careers and with regard to the style the NHL is trending. Gudbranson can't do much with the puck, but at least he's not prone to heinous mistakes on a shift-by-shift basis like the other two. Good luck "just coaching" that group to being successful. We got by with an aging, declining Daley and Ron Hainsey playing big minutes because, while they were not phenomenal players, they were able to execute the gameplan. They could either skate or chip pucks out of danger and up to the forwards to get the offense going the other way. Our blueline, as currently constructed, is incapable of doing that with two of the three pairings. I don't know how else to convey the issue to you, and feel like I'm talking to a wall. Presented with all the evidence and reasoning in the world, you and others respond with "Uh, just coach better, Sully" and it's just not even worth my time anymore.

Dumo and Letang form our only legitimate pairing. Schultz needs a significant partner in order to get the most out of his game, and we don't have that. Petts is a bottom pairing guy who is still developing in his own right, and was prone to some miserable play himself. JJ and Maatta probably don't even belong in the NHL at this point. Gudbranson is what he is, a relic of a bygone era with big, physical, but immobile guys--and they've been phased out because everyone skates circles around those types nowadays, or takes away any and all space so Gudbranson can't even get pucks out with his passing anymore.

I see you blew off my point about the Islanders' defense. Do you really think they have a vastly superior blue line?

It's funny you claim to be "presenting evidence," but that evidence seems to be blaming everything on Johnson and Maatta and being in capable of looking at a bigger picture.

 

[Shockmaster]

I think it’s so silly reading the narrative about wanting Sully to adjust to a bad defense that can’t move the puck. Years ago we wanted a team identity that played to the cores strengths. Why would we get on Sully for trying to do that when JR is roster building to combat ****ing irrelevant Tom Wilson and to live in 2006 nostalgia? Sullivan should die on the hill of aggressive hockey.

He did. Hence all the pinching the defensemen did.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

There is this thing called the salary cap. Don't know if you heard of it, but it would have made retaining every player from 2016 and 2017 impossible.

Maybe. But going wholesale in the opposite direction of the approach that saw us win back to back Cups is just plain stupid. JR's a fraud and a clown who got lucky with the one post-Botterill move he's made that's been successful; the Brassard deal. But Sully, coach better!

You keep calling it "immobile and impotent" despite the fact having Letang, Dumoulin, and Schultz are anything but that. And if the Penguins aren't an aggressive team, then why do they pinch so much?

Dumo and Letang are fantastic. Schultz doesn't function without a proper partner, which I've addressed, and we don't have that. But Sully, coach 'em up!

I see you blew off my point about the Islanders' defense. Do you really think they have a vastly superior blue line?

It's funny you claim to be "presenting evidence," but that evidence seems to be blaming everything on Johnson and Maatta and being in capable of looking at a bigger picture.

You don't need a bunch of big names to be successful. You just need guys capable of doing what your system entails. The Isles blueline is miles better than ours, outside of the Dumo-Letang pairing. Just like a bunch of big dollar guys don't mean success, which is the case with our miserable tire fire on the backend.

I'm done here. This is pointless. Fire Sully and stay the course with this blueline, it'll totally work. You're right. I can't be bothered to find an eye roll gif that strongly enough conveys just how absurdly short-sighted and nonsensical your approach to the real issues plaguing this team actually is.

 

[Gurglesons]

There is this thing called the salary cap. Don't know if you heard of it, but it would have made retaining every player from 2016 and 2017 impossible.




You keep calling it "immobile and impotent" despite the fact having Letang, Dumoulin, and Schultz are anything but that. And if the Penguins aren't an aggressive team, then why do they pinch so much?




I see you blew off my point about the Islanders' defense. Do you really think they have a vastly superior blue line?

It's funny you claim to be "presenting evidence," but that evidence seems to be blaming everything on Johnson and Maatta and being in capable of looking at a bigger picture.

Bonino and Daley and Hainsey are actually making less than what Bjugstad and JJ and Gudbranson are making.

This “saving cap” idea only works if JR isn’t an idiot with our cap space.

 

[Shockmaster]

Maybe. But going wholesale in the opposite direction of the approach that saw us win back to back Cups is just plain stupid. JR's a fraud and a clown who got lucky with the one post-Botterill move he's made that's been successful; the Brassard deal. But Sully, coach better!



Dumo and Letang are fantastic. Schultz doesn't function without a proper partner, which I've addressed, and we don't have that. But Sully, coach 'em up!


You don't need a bunch of big names to be successful. You just need guys capable of doing what your system entails. The Isles blueline is miles better than ours, outside of the Dumo-Letang pairing. Just like a bunch of big dollar guys don't mean success, which is the case with our miserable tire fire on the backend.

So it sounds like Trotz implements a system that fits the players he has rather than square peg a system for a team he may prefer to have? Hmm......

You really think if you swapped the Pens bottom 4 defensemen and the Islanders bottom 4 defensemen that it would be 2016 all over again?

I'm done here. This is pointless. Fire Sully and stay the course with this blueline, it'll totally work. You're right. I can't be bothered to find an eye roll gif that strongly enough conveys just how absurdly short-sighted and nonsensical your approach to the real issues plaguing this team actually is.

Now you're just being a knee-jerk yinzer. I never said fire Sullivan, I said he needs to be able to adjust and have a plan B. ANY good coach should do that. Funny how you claim anyone who disagrees with you "emotional," then jump right on a strawman argument.

As for the players, I'm on record saying there's about 6 of them that should not be moved - namely Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel, Dumoulin, and Murray. The rest I'm fine with being moved for the right price.

 

[Shockmaster]

Bonino and Daley and Hainsey are actually making less than what Bjugstad and JJ and Gudbranson are making.

This “saving cap” idea only works if JR isn’t an idiot with our cap space.

I wouldn't have been bothered if Bonino re-signed, but Daley is 35 and Hainsey is 38.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

So it sounds like Trotz implements a system that fits the players he has rather than square peg a system for a team he may prefer to have? Hmm......

You really think if you swapped the Pens bottom 4 defensemen and the Islanders bottom 4 defensemen that it would be 2016 all over again?



Now you're just being a knee-jerk yinzer. I never said fire Sullivan, I said he needs to be able to adjust and have a plan B. ANY good coach should do that. Funny how you claim anyone who disagrees with you "emotional," then jump right on a strawman argument.

As for the players, I'm on record saying there's about 6 of them that should not be moved - namely Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel, Dumoulin, and Murray. The rest I'm fine with being moved for the right price.

I'm not from Pittsburgh, how can I be a Yinzer? A yinzer wants Sully fired because they can't get over the fact that their boy, JR, built a team constructed to play in 2003 as opposed to 2019. Emotional is not being able to see the real problems because you're frustrated that your team is trash, buoyed by the play of Sid, Jake, Letang and Murray all year.

What's the plan you'd be happy with Sully deploying? Serious question. How does this team function with an inept blueline outside of the Dumo-Letang pairing? What's your approach? How do you get this blueline to tread water and survive in an environment with a swarming, aggressive forecheck that takes away all their time and space?

But hey, coach 'em up, Sully. Who cares if three of your blueliners don't fit in today's NHL and another requires a competent partner in order to play to his capability. Just coach 'em up! Tell 'em to pass the puck, or skate. That'll do it. While you're at it, just tell Sid and Jake to score more goals.

Good grief.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wouldn't have been bothered if Bonino re-signed, but Daley is 35 and Hainsey is 38.

And Hainsey would be walking this year and Daley would be walking next.

Instead we have JJ for four more.

 

[ColePens]

The Reaves and JJ moves broke me for sure. That is beyond laughable. Couldn't understand either.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Nobody's saying it has to be specifically Daley and Hainsey, but replacing what those guys were able to do with JJ and Gudbranson? Big yikes. Giant yikes. Colossal yikes.

But JR just knew better, man. JJ was treated unfairly in Columbus. JJ's been misunderstood for the decade-plus he's been in the league, being terrible the entire time. JR was going to show everybody else, just you watch.

Oh, oops. He sucks. Just like Maatta. Oh no, everyone got hurt, better trade a wholly ineffective, slow, vanilla player in Pearson (that we traded Hags for, because we just needed a fall guy) for a big, slow, ineffective guy in Gudbranson because his pushback/60 made up for his other deficiencies.

Nevermind the fact that we traded our best center prospect and our 1st rounder for Ryan Reaves and a late 2nd. That darned Tom Wilson. Then we went after Oleksiak for, presumably, his "pushback" ability. He's a big guy, he's gotta be able to chuck knucks, eh? Why bother offering Bonino a real offer when you can let him walk without discussing a deal, then spend the next two years being singularly focused on fixing that bottom-6 center issue? Oh, while you're looking to fix that easily avoidable bottom-6 problem, you neglect your blueline to the point it ends up like this. Great stuff, JR.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That’s because the other other two on the short list provided by Mario were Jay Caufield and Kevin Stevens

Mario also was on the grassy knoll.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The Reaves and JJ moves broke me for sure. That is beyond laughable. Couldn't understand either.

The Reaves move would look out of place if JR/Sullivan stuck to the whole "speed through the lineup" approach. Instead, they went with a guy like Wilson anyways. So in that regard, it probably would have been better to just keep the better version (Reaves) over Wilson if that was what they were going to do and not put a speed/skill guy there anyway.

 

[BladeRunner66]

If the Pens aren't the fastest team, then playing a fast/aggressive style against faster teams seems really counter productive.

No matter what moves are made, Sullivan needs to be better at adjusting and having a back-up plan.

Yeah, teams adapted to us when they figured us out by imitating us and playing an effective counter system. Now it seems most teams are faster while we got slower, maybe it's time for a coach/system change while JR finds the right pieces for that.