Speculation: Does Shanahan have any say in how this team is being run?

[acrobaticgoalie]

I never once said Shanahan should be fired at “this point”. Clearly states if he doesn’t win the division or a playoff series this season.

If you’re going to call someone ignorant:

1) Read the post. Read it a 2nd time just to make sure.

2) State why you think that way.

So I’ll ask again. What has he done to show that he is capable of doing this job?

Well he did get the owners and the board to finally approve of a rebuild. He fired the management team, development staff and a majority of the scouting staff and brought in some fresh blood. Now we have a roster that has 11 players on our roster that we have either drafted or brought up through our system and is the most talented team we have had in a very long time. We have a very successful farm team with more promising prospects on the way. We could not say that before Shanahan came on board.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Well he did get the owners and the board to finally approve of a rebuild. He fired the management team, development staff and a majority of the scouting staff and brought in some fresh blood. Now we have a roster that has 11 players on our roster that we have either drafted or brought up through our system and is the most talented team we have had in a very long time. We have a very successful farm team with more promising prospects on the way. We could not say that before Shanahan came on board.

lol ignore those other posters man, they'll disappear in a little while like they always do when the Leafs start winning.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

Lol. Yeah.. you got nothing. That’s the great thing about pro sports. There is no grey area.. you either raise banners and make playoff runs or you don’t.

Shanahan has nothing to hang his hat on into year 5.

It’s clear you have no objectivity on this issue and your ignorance and bias reigns supreme but ok I’ll bite.

Shanny took over a team that was the absolute laughing stock of the entire sports world. Year after year we would see articles lumping them in with the pantheon of pathetic franchises like the clippers and browns. Yet he was able to get both Bell and Rogers to put their differences aside, give him a blank check book and green light an entire year down and rebuild. Some in Toronto swore they would never see the day management would embark on such an endeavour. Only a few short years after being hired he has turned the leafs into a model franchise and is one of the most highly regarded in the business.

He hired a hall of game GM who gave the team a steady hand in managing the team and gave them instant credibility. The structure, class and professionalism instilled by Lou is something not to be ignored. I don’t think you could have asked for a better placeholder GM.

Shanny wasn’t the GM but he was part of the team that made all of those unreadable and albatross contracts disappear. To think after all the dust has settled the only money they had to retain was 1.2 on kessels contract. That’s a damn miracle.

He has turned our drafting and development program into an absolute juggernaut. Just look at the success the Marlies have had and continue to have. We also have one of the best sports science programs in all of sport.

Shanny has repaired the relationships with the leafs alumni which were treated like garbage for so many years and returned a sense of pride to the fan base as well.

Basically Shanny oversaw the perfect tank and rebuild and you’re going to suggest he needs to be let go? There are multiple player trades, coach and GM firings to take place before any sane person would consider letting him go lol. I could go on and on but you wouldn’t understand.

 

[ottomaddox]

Seeing all the Leaf hot-takes this season has really opened my eyes lol, makes perfect sense for why Leaf fans are hated across the league.

So leaf fans are hated because they criticise their own team? Should we criticise other teams so we are loved?

 

[PromisedLand]

IMO Shanny made a bad choice for a GM and the team and fans are paying for it

 

[LeafingTheWay]

So leaf fans are hated because they criticise their own team? Should we criticise other teams so we are loved?

There's a difference between useful, constructive criticism as opposed to useless, over-reactive hot-take criticisms.

Every team has these type of fans with the overreacting and zero patience, Leafs just have so many of these type of Leaf fans on here (proportional to the size of our fan-base on here).

 

[Menzinger]

Why did he bring in 2 of our most physical players then?

You're seeing what you want to see and your best evidence to back it up is probably Martin or Lindholm being traded? 2 no-name 4th liners that weren't even scratching 10 minutes a game here if they were even playing.

If a Tkachuk or Kreider was available and affordable, do you really think we wouldn't be in the market? We have enough bottom-6 grinders and top-6 toughness is expensive to get unless you're willing to overpay a 28 year old UFA who's body is about to break down like Lucic.

Tangible facts dont matter to some people,.they will keep on repesting thr same thing until theyre blue in the face.

I mean the most physical guy on the team -Muzzin - was one of Dubas' biggest moves as GM....

These are the same people who likely thought having Babcock give a guy like Martin 5 minutes of icetime every night was as vital to the teams sucess as Matthews 40 goals.

 

[Menzinger]

Well he did get the owners and the board to finally approve of a rebuild. He fired the management team, development staff and a majority of the scouting staff and brought in some fresh blood. Now we have a roster that has 11 players on our roster that we have either drafted or brought up through our system and is the most talented team we have had in a very long time. We have a very successful farm team with more promising prospects on the way. We could not say that before Shanahan came on board.

I will just never for the life of me be able to wrap my mind around someone who looks at how rapidly the Leafs have changed in the last few years - from beiing a team where Tyler Bozak was the 1C, where Keith Aulie got top pairing usage to one where theyve got Tavares and Matthews, Rielly and Muzzin in the lineup and think "what a disaster, fire everyone".

Beyond comprehension!

 

[Myopic]

I remember all the clueless millennial's using words like 'face punchers' and 'goons' when talking about physical hockey vs Dubas' so-called "skill game".

It's been an uphill battle educating them in here.

Maybe Dad's right after all eh?

And YES Shanny is a co-conspirator. He hired both of them and signed off on this no-hit shinny type of product we're seeing. To his defense, Babcock doesn't have the right tools in his toobox to implement his system. He would like to have actual defensemen who play real defense, and a Zach Hymen on every line to name a few.

I think Kappy has the potential to be a skilled version of Hymen but he has to do it every game. I liked what I saw from him against Boston. If he could bring the heat a tad more I would be happy.

Can Marchment be that ferocious fore-checker like Hymen? IDK, I haven't seen him play yet, but have heard he is a physical pest type of grinder.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Why did he bring in 2 of our most physical players then?

You're seeing what you want to see and your best evidence to back it up is probably Martin or Lindholm being traded? 2 no-name 4th liners that weren't even scratching 10 minutes a game here if they were even playing.

If a Tkachuk or Kreider was available and affordable, do you really think we wouldn't be in the market? We have enough bottom-6 grinders and top-6 toughness is expensive to get unless you're willing to overpay a 28 year old UFA who's body is about to break down like Lucic.

100% agree with this.

If people want our team to get more 'tougher', first look internally at our existing team. Our big forwards Matthews, Tavares, Hyman, Mikheyev, Gauthier, Shore could add more physicality to their game. Our small, fiesty forwards Johnsson, Kapanen, Moore, Timashov could add more physicality to their game. Let the guys like Marner, Nylander, Kerfoot play the game they want (No reason to add physicality to their game, we don't see Gaudreau/Kane playing physical rightfully so).

 

[rumman]

There's a difference between useful, constructive criticism as opposed to useless, over-reactive hot-take criticisms.

Every team has these type of fans with the overreacting and zero patience, Leafs just have so many of these type of Leaf fans on here (proportional to the size of our fan-base on here).

pretty ballsy saying Leaf fans have "zero patience." How long have you been a fan? Forget it, I probably have boots twice as old as you are.

 

[gamer1035]

We have had a great rebuild and a great core.


However Dubas f***ed us with these contracts and now we have no way of improving.

 

[Myopic]

100% agree with this.

If people want our team to get more 'tougher', first look internally at our existing team. Our big forwards Matthews, Tavares, Hyman, Mikheyev, Gauthier, Shore could add more physicality to their game. Our small, fiesty forwards Johnsson, Kapanen, Moore, Timashov could add more physicality to their game. Let the guys like Marner, Nylander, Kerfoot play the game they want (No reason to add physicality to their game, we don't see Gaudreau/Kane playing physical rightfully so).

Some players are who they are and will never change. That's just their personality. The Goat doesn't have the mean streak everyone would like to see. Yes he's more physical this year but is not even close to where he should be with that huge frame. How many years were we hoping that 6'3" JVR would use his size more? Matthews gets angry from time to time but he is who he is, a pacifist. I won't kill him for that because Mario Lemieux was the same way. He needs someone on his line who has his back. Matts Sundin was not a fighter but was very effective using his size. Having Tie Domi on the team didn't hurt either. He was a good little hockey player when he wanted to play hockey, and a great skater.

 

[hector morrison]

I think the answer clearly is: yes.

If that is true then why doesn't he look in the mirror or look at some old footage of his playing career?

He can't possibly think that the team he is president of is going to win in the playoffs with perimeter play and light stick checking.

Why can't he influence something here? He's got to knock Kyle and Mike's heads together!

He knows how to win even more so than the people that are under him!

Do something Shanny!!

How many players today would you compare as a Shanny type of player? Hardly any,is the answer...there weren't many back then either!

Leafs need a serious take no prisoners Dman(Dermott isn't that guy) and a Power forward(Hyman isn't skilled enough) and /or a guy that can make up for the refs missed calls by taking care of business. The young lads that are skilled on this team are playing scared ,whether they admit it it or not!

 

[LeafingTheWay]

pretty ballsy saying Leaf fans have "zero patience." How long have you been a fan? Forget it, I probably have boots twice as old as you are.

Lol. For someone so old, you should know better.

Each Leaf team every year is constructed differently. The season is 10 games in, and we're calling for players, coaches, GMs heads already!? Same thing when it was 1 game in, 5 games in, heck it even began in the summer before the players even touched the ice.

Just imagine if we were the fans of Tampa Bay:

Yzerman would've been canned before he could even have left on his own. Stamkos would've been ran out of town. Johnson, Palat, Kucherov would've been called the softest players ever to touch the ice. Sergachev, McDonagh would be called useless defensively. Hedman would be called the softest giant alive. Cooper would have veen fired years ago for not getting any success with such a talented roster.

Don't take 'zero patience' as an insult, and just. Be. Patient Shanahan/Dubas/Babcock did say it was a 5 year rebuild plan and then contending. We signed up for patience. Just because we've jumped the gun, and began 'contending' in year 2 doesn't mean we can start being impatient.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Some players are who they are and will never change. That's just their personality. The Goat doesn't have the mean streak everyone would like to see. Yes he's more physical this year but is not even close to where he should be with that huge frame. How many years were we hoping that 6'3" JVR would use his size more? Matthews gets angry from time to time but he is who he is, a pacifist. I won't kill him for that because Mario Lemieux was the same way. He needs someone on his line who has his back. Matts Sundin was not a fighter but was very effective using his size. Having Tie Domi on the team didn't hurt either. He was a good little hockey player when he wanted to play hockey, and a great skater.

Agreed with you there I guess. But it's not even about the mean streak to be honest, it's about that little extra physicality, maybe it's a coaching thing? Just finishing checks can immensely make a team 'look' tougher.

I look at a guy like McDavid. He doesn't have a mean-streak in his game, but he does have physicality to his game (I.e finishes his checks hard, defends his teammates in small-scraps, etc). Guys like Marner and Nylander, I would never ask to be more physical because that's 100% not their playing style (I.e look at the Kane and Gaudreau's of the league).

I look at a team like Tampa. How many fans on here would be calling for the coaches, GMs and player's heads?

In my honest opinion, the opinions on here will change once our on-ice sv% goes up to the average and we start winning (you can bet on that). Patience is the name of the game.

 

[ottomaddox]

Come back Shanny!

 

[Throw More Waffles]

There were insider rumours that Dubas and Marner agreed to a contract so outrageous (I can only imagine), that Shanahan vetoed it.

Dont know if it’s true or not, but I’d assume he has some sort of say.

 

[Buds17]

It's great to have a HOFer and Cup winner in such a prominent role within the organization. I imagine he's a valuable sounding board. I wouldn't expect him to meddle with Dubas' GM role or Babcock's coaching role. He'd have enough authority if he feels a change would be of benefit to recommend.

 

[Pookie]

Hard to believe Shanahan built a team full of wimps

Hard to believe... and yet here we are

 

[Pookie]

Shanny is the president of the Leafs.
Unlike the NBA, the GM in the NHL runs the Hockey team.
Should he be held accountable, of course he does but I don’t think his job is insecure at this moment.

I don’t agree. GMs report to owners and Presidents. For the Leafs, big decisions need to go through Boards.

Shanahan has to endorse those Board presentations and he’s put a flag in the ground and money behind the data based approach of Dubas. Who doesn’t “buy” the idea of physicality.

If Shanahan disagreed, he could change the GM and not support spending that he questioned.

 

[baton elevated]

There were insider rumours that Dubas and Marner agreed to a contract so outrageous (I can only imagine), that Shanahan vetoed it.

Dont know if it’s true or not, but I’d assume he has some sort of say.

How much more outrageous could it have been from the one he got? Vetoed or not it looks like Marner got the outrageous contract.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Shanny has bought into Dubas' vision hook line and sinker. I hope his head rolls along with Dubas' if Dubas takes our 18 wheeler off the cliff.

Go shake yer pillow!

 

[Kiwi]

We have had a great rebuild and a great core.


However Dubas ****ed us with these contracts and now we have no way of improving.

Calling this core great is a bit of a stretch

Our guys have some very strong attributes but a lot of our most important players are one dimensional which does make us a high event team with a limited playing style

Our contact situation sucks but that isn't making Matthews and Rielly defensive black holes and the team mentally fragile

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Lol. Yeah.. you got nothing. That’s the great thing about pro sports. There is no grey area.. you either raise banners and make playoff runs or you don’t.

Shanahan has nothing to hang his hat on into year 5.

He watched a year and seen enough.
Traded everyone that needed to go and tanked.
Drafted Nylander,Marner, Natthews under his watch. Built a state of the art training and support group for all players.

Going back to the old style Leaf emblem and adding history to it. Right from the start he earned his knowledge of his job by talking,listening and learning from the best. He is a class act. He promoted skill players from the very beginning.

This missed the playoffs how many years in a row again before he got here? Don’t count the year he studied and analyzed. This guy is a champ. Hired the very best people too.

Shanny has been great! You are off the rail or on the wrong one