Do you think if Kucherov were Canadian and McDavid were Russian there'd be a different narrative?

[Czechboy]

Kucherov plays with two Europeans that are widely considered the best at their positions in the world.

Hedman and Vasilevsky?

Who are we talking about? Who does Kucherov play with that are regarded as the best in the world in their position?

Or did I get it right?

 

[socko]

Oh hell yes. I'm still trying to figure out how Tavares got his reputation. I mean he's a pretty good center, for a guy that can't really skate.

There are people who think Marner is as good as Matthews.

Yes, it's real.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Hedman and Vasilevsky?

Who are we talking about? Who does Kucherov play with that are regarded as the best in the world in their position?

Or did I get it right?

Yes. The Canadian Bias is not strong enough to ignore their skill.

 

[nturn06]

Point is, there is a whole forum post dedicated to the "hE wAsNt iNjUrEd" narrative. Follow along.

You do realise that Kucherov is not 24 years old, do you?

 

[geoo9]

No, Ovi got all that criticism because..... his team failed to pass the 2nd round of the playoffs for a long time while his biggest "rival" won a Cup and then another two later on.
Also, you must be living in a rock if you think McDavid hasn't received criticism for the last two playoff exits. Hell, there's some morons in the Edmonton market who are blaming him and Draisaitl.

Ovie played all these years all alone at postseason - he hadnt Backstrom who was awful PO performer and only when he got Kuznetsov Ovie got the gup. Sid haв Malkin mcD had Drai and Kuch had nobody Hart lvl playing with him

 

[geoo9]

You forgot Palat, Cirelli, Killorn, and Sergachev. Not a terrible cast in TBay really, all 4 you didn't mention would quite easily be top 6/top 4 options in Edmonton and most other clubs for that matter. The home grown talent they've cultivated is pretty impressive.

you forgot that Kucherov won SC without Stamkos

 

[Frank Drebin]

you forgot that Kucherov won SC without Stamkos

And that TB put together a season that would pro rate to 109points without Kucherov?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Ovie played all these years all alone at postseason - he hadnt Backstrom who was awful PO performer and only when he got Kuznetsov Ovie got the gup. Sid haв Malkin mcD had Drai and Kuch had nobody Hart lvl playing with him

Don't forget John Carlson, he didn't come until much later. That was Ovechkin's first #1 Defenseman in his career. Before that he had Mike Green who is a good powerplay guy but horrible at 'defense'

 

[WarriorofTime]

And that TB put together a season that would pro rate to 109points without Kucherov?

last i checked, finishing third in your division doesn't win you a Cup, even Crosby's team was a Playoff squad when he was on the shelf

 

[Frank Drebin]

last i checked, finishing third in your division doesn't win you a Cup, even Crosby's team was a Playoff squad when he was on the shelf

Tampa Bay is a better team without Kucherov than Edmonton has ever been with McDavid.

I'm sure someone can pull up Edmontons record with McDavid out of the lineup.

 

[majormajor]

Sid haв Malkin mcD had Drai and Kuch had nobody Hart lvl playing with him

Other than the two players who were better than him - Victor Hedman and Brayden Point - then yeah sure, nobody.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Tampa Bay is a better team without Kucherov than Edmonton has ever been with McDavid.

I'm sure someone can pull up Edmontons record with McDavid out of the lineup.

Of course, it takes luck to win the Cup. Even Gretzky himself, the best player of all time, won all of his Cups on a team that was still good enough to win a Cup without him, and never won another Cup. Messier won 2 Cups sans Gretzky and Gretzky won 0 Cups sans Messier, but nobody in their right mind thinks Messier was better than Gretzky but I have heard people say Messier was a better "leader" and had better "intangibles"

 

[WarriorofTime]

Other than the two players who were better than him - Victor Hedman and Brayden Point - then yeah sure, nobody.

Hedman is very close, nobody thinks Point is better than Kucherov outside of very biased Don Cherry type Canadian nationalists.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Of course, it takes luck to win the Cup. Even Gretzky himself, the best player of all time, won all of his Cups on a team that was still good enough to win a Cup without him, and never won another Cup. Messier won 2 Cups sans Gretzky and Gretzky won 0 Cups sans Messier, but nobody in their right mind thinks Messier was better than Gretzky but I have heard people say Messier was a better "leader" and had better "intangibles"

Oh that is neat.
No one is saying McDavid is better because of intangibles. This isn't even like the Crosby/Ovechkin debate.
McDavid is simply better because he is better.

 

[majormajor]

Hedman is very close, nobody thinks Point is better than Kucherov outside of very biased Don Cherry type Canadian nationalists.

Last year's playoffs the two contenders for MVP were Point and Hedman, and justifiably so. I don't think Point is better than Kucherov overall but the poster was talking about postseason play only and excluding Backstrom, etc...

 

[WarriorofTime]

Last year's playoffs the two contenders for MVP were Point and Hedman, and justifiably so. I don't think Point is better than Kucherov overall but the poster was talking about postseason play only and excluding Backstrom, etc...

Yes, Point is a very good player obviously and a much better playoff performer than 'Secondary Backstrom' who also has inflated career totals passing to Ovechkin.

 

[socko]

Tampa Bay is a better team without Kucherov than Edmonton has ever been with McDavid.

I'm sure someone can pull up Edmontons record with McDavid out of the lineup.

McDavid has the regular season numbers, Kucherov has the playoff numbers.
Edmonton's entire team revolves around McDavid. It's like when the Leafs had Kessel (not comparing the two), the entire team had to play run and gun to meet Phil's style. What happens to McDavid when he goes to a team that doesn't let him try to go coast to coast every time he gets the puck? When he has to adjust to their system, instead of the other way around. It may not be good for his stats.

 

[Frank Drebin]

McDavid has the regular season numbers, Kucherov has the playoff numbers.
Edmonton's entire team revolves around McDavid. It's like when the Leafs had Kessel (not comparing the two), the entire team had to play run and gun to meet Phil's style. What happens to McDavid when he goes to a team that doesn't let him try to go coast to coast every time he gets the puck? When he has to adjust to their system, instead of the other way around. It may not be good for his stats.

Before he was a member of a Stanley Cup champion team, Kucherov had 61 points in 65 career playoff games.

It has little to do with playing style and almost everything to do with the team you are a part of.

 

[geoo9]

And that TB put together a season that would pro rate to 109points without Kucherov?

that is nothing to do to a postseason. McD had a team which maked more than 100 points - but it is different hockey at postseason

 

[geoo9]

Oh that is neat.
No one is saying McDavid is better because of intangibles. This isn't even like the Crosby/Ovechkin debate.
McDavid is simply better because he is better.

numbers dont lie - Mc D is not better at postseason - he is worse than himself at it

 

[nowhereman]

Until McDavid proves he can dominate in the post-season, it's always going to be a mark against him. No, I don't expect him to drag his team to a Cup (even though Sid/Geno did it with a roster that wasn't all much better) but I do expect him to do something that doesn't have you asking "is that it?". As of right now, he's a regular season performer who doesn't take the next step, when the play speeds up, things gets more physical and time/space is far more limited (ala Dionne, the Sedins, Thornton, Bathgate, Nilsson, Nash, etc.). That can change and quickly but let's not pretend it's not a factor.

Kucherov is one of those guys who always steps up, even if his team doesn't depend on him alone. If you don't want to take anything away from McDavid because you think all his troubles are team-related, fine (though, IMO, you're excusing his current short-comings). But you have to give credit where credit is due and Kucherov is simply a playoff beast.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Oh that is neat.
No one is saying McDavid is better because of intangibles. This isn't even like the Crosby/Ovechkin debate.
McDavid is simply better because he is better.

Who said anything about McDavid's intangibles?

 

[SeanConn]

Konstantin Davidov

 

[DeysArena]

Kucherov is an excellent player. McDavid is better. Their nationalities just exaggerate this difference.

 

[Saucechucker99]

McDavid would get much more criticism if he wasn't Canadian. Remember when Ovi failed to pass 2'd round of Playoffs for a long time?

I don't think the reason McDavid doesn't get as much criticism has anything to do with nationality. It is because it is common knowledge that the Oilers are not a good team and they are not expected to go far because of it. That is not a chirp to Oilers fans, it is just what it is.