Do you think if Kucherov were Canadian and McDavid were Russian there'd be a different narrative?

Pens x

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Oct 8, 2016
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Yes, if Kuch was North American and played in a traditional hockey market, he’d be discussed much more frequently.
 
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Future GOAT

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Apr 4, 2017
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I think the narrative would be much more lopsided if the teams were reversed.

How many points did kucherov get when his 120 point team got swept by the jackets?

He did something memorable that season, I can't remember what it was though
A lot of secondary assists?
 

LastWordArmy

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Sep 11, 2011
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Kucherov has a Hart trophy and is universally acknowledged as the best winger and a top 5 player in the NHL.

McDavid would still be seen as the best player in the world if their roles were reversed though IMO.
 

matt trick

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Jun 12, 2007
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Aside from the 1st and 2nd best forwards, I think you can argue that Tampa is better, in many cases substantially, at every single position than Edmonton. Edmonton's issue isn't McDavid or Draisaitl, its drafting and cap management. Tampa's done an outstanding job there, while Edmonton's been largely abysmal.

For McDavid, I'd argue that it's not the Canadian halo, but the center one which makes him untouchable. I think being Canadian certainly helps the way he's perceived, but that 'mythical' franchise center is what teams want to build around.

That said, given the option of Connor McDavid or having the best winger, best goalie, best defenseman, a top 15 center, Steven Stamkos, and elite depth, it's a pretty clear decision. That said, Kucherov is one hell of a player. I hope he breaks Gretzky's playoff season assist record. Gretzky records don't fall often.
 

Chet Manley

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Apr 15, 2007
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It has little to do with nationality. McDavid can do things while possessing the puck that can't be consistently replicated by anyone in the world and is a solo points machine when given any time or space. If you value those things he is the best in the world. And the things he is not the best at aren't bad enough to tarnish the title.

Also seems to be a trend of people appreciating the flash of youth over the experience of knowing what works against the best of the best. If McDavid and Kucherov were of the same age and pedigree the conversation of best would be like Sid and Ovi.

Just some ramblings.
 

Iapyi

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Apr 19, 2017
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It has little to do with nationality. McDavid can do things while possessing the puck that can't be consistently replicated by anyone in the world and is a solo points machine when given any time or space. If you value those things he is the best in the world. And the things he is not the best at aren't bad enough to tarnish the title.

Also seems to be a trend of people appreciating the flash of youth over the experience of knowing what works against the best of the best. If McDavid and Kucherov were of the same age and pedigree the conversation of best would be like Sid and Ovi.

Just some ramblings.

Exactly. If McDavid was Russian, American, Bulgarian, Serbian or whatever he would still be the best player in the world.

The narrative the OP is trying to push is disingenuous at best.
 

missinthejets

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Dec 24, 2005
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He still had 2+ times better PPG vs Jets in the regular, than in the playoffs...
hellebuyck wasn't good in the regular season but was top tear in the playoffs. Oilers outplayed the jets the entire series but hellebuyck stole that one. Saw how much the jets accomplished after icing them selves with the sweep and long layoff
 

Krewe

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Mar 12, 2019
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I think the narrative would be different yes. McDavid would still be the best player though. But people would actually give Kuch proper respect
 

WarriorofTime

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Jul 3, 2010
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Exactly. If McDavid was Russian, American, Bulgarian, Serbian or whatever he would still be the best player in the world.

The narrative the OP is trying to push is disingenuous at best.
Jingoists would paint a different narrative
 

MadLuke

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Jan 18, 2011
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Maybe the winning in the playoffs versus never going out of the second round narrative would be stronger.

But if we take a good year's spam for Kucherov against McDavid, say since 2017-2018:

McDavid 426 points in 280 games (1.52 ppg) versus 313 points in 230 (1.36) for Kucherov, that a 125 points a season pace versus 111, a significant gap.

Outside nationality you have extreme hyped 1st overall pick that did not disappoint out of the gate, that is hard for the slower development a la MacKinnon (let alone second round pick Kucherov) to past them in the narrative, global mind, that and the team situation being so different than the credit for winning or shaming for loosing make it also lopsided narrative wise, hard to really know, which are the biggest factor.
 

MadLuke

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Jan 18, 2011
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Exactly. If McDavid was Russian, American, Bulgarian, Serbian or whatever he would still be the best player in the world.

The narrative the OP is trying to push is disingenuous at best.

That seem a different question than the OP question, obviously nationality has nothing to do with who is the best, he is asking if the coverage and perception would be different. (a lot of people seem to be conflicting the 2 in this thread)
 
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PensPlz

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Dec 23, 2009
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Yes. Absolutely.

Remember when Malkin didn't crack then top 100 list?

Everyone talking about "diversity in hockey" needs to understand that not even Russians have been truly given fair coverage yet... And they are as white as they come.

Where you are born still matters.
 

WarriorofTime

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Jul 3, 2010
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Yes. Absolutely.

Remember when Malkin didn't crack then top 100 list?

Everyone talking about "diversity in hockey" needs to understand that not even Russians have been truly given fair coverage yet...
They put Toews ahead of him, which as a Blackhawks supporter was a big OOF. Love Toews (and hope he's ok) but Malkin has had the better career.
 
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MadLuke

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Jan 18, 2011
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that nothing would change if their nationalilites were switched.

I am not how one can know something like this, for example you are 100% sure that if Kucherov was Canadian that here:
NHLPA Player Poll 2020-21

He would not show up with 3.5% or more at the if you need to win one game, who do you pick ? And McDavid at 35% instead of 36.74% in the scenario ?

The fact Malkin did not made the top 100, do show that it is not crazy to think that it can play, probably less than being a second rounder with a slower curve has too (see Marchand for something similar in that regard, would he have became a star in 2011 instead of 2016, the narrative and perception around him right now, even if he was 100% similar that last 5 season would be different).

Kucherov is an excellent hockey player that I fully respect and I don't care where he was born.


We are not necessarily that good at knowing how element affect our judgment, but the question was not about someone in particular, but the media, league and hockey fans in aggregate, would it move the needle by a tiny little bit in how both player are perceived and talked about by a significant amount of people.
 

WarriorofTime

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Jul 3, 2010
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McDavid is my favorite player. To say I am anti-Canadian is an absurd attack on my character.

This is solely about narratives.
 
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psycat

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Oct 25, 2016
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Of course we see this all the time. Roy is better than Hasek because playoffs, McDavid is better than Kucherov because of regular season, Karlsson only produced so much points because he was on a bad team and allowed to free roam(but at the same time people pretend McDavid would score more on Tampa despite having to share ice-time, ok), Doughty better than Karlsson because he was on a winning team, Harvey should be ranked in top #3 defencemen of all time because he played on argubaly the most dominant team of all time in a weak era, Kucherov is carried by Stamkos(regardless of if Stamkos is actually playing or not) and so on.
 
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lawrence

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May 19, 2012
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Basically where McDavid doesn't "elevate" his team and that Kucherov is a natural born "winner

this is almost near horse shit level. If we got Mcdavid and Kucherov to switch places right now, I think the Lighting would already punched their way to the Stanley cup final. Even that, If we got them to switch places at the start of the season, I don't even think Kucherov with the Oilers roster would have even put up close to the amount of points Mcdavid just did.

Kucherov quite frankly has the best team in the NHL to play. Mcdavid is quite the opposite. In one night you shut down Kucherov, but they have other stars to really pick it up. You can't say the same for the Oilers, as the team currently is depending on Mcdavid and Drai. Tampa has like 5 star players on top of that, great depth. Oilers have 2 star players and no depth.

I also don't see much of a different narrative since Don Cherry does work anymore and most of us already aknowledged Khucherov as one of the best players.
 

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