Do you believe in Frederik Andersen? Would you re-sign?

[Dekes For Days]

Is it part of the player summary as I haven't seen it there on naturalstat?

It's under goaltending...

What do you think my claim is/was?

You've claimed a lot of things. Among them, that Keefe's system creates more odd man rushes against. You brought no evidence of that. It was shown to you that we allow less scoring chances and high danger chances and our expected goals against has dropped. For some reason, that didn't matter to you, and you still attributed Andersen's decline to rush chances specifically. Rush chances specifically were shown to you, showing you to be wrong, and you wouldn't even accept those; apparently there's some super secret but unstoppable rush chances that don't show up on anything. Even when it was shown that Andersen's high danger SV% has remained similar and his decline is caused by a drop in saving lower-end shots, you still wouldn't accept it.

And then you somehow attempted to blame workload when Andersen is playing fewer games now than he was when he was doing well. You're just throwing whatever you can at the wall with no substantiation, and I'm not sure why you just can't accept Andersen is playing worse. It's the overwhelmingly obvious answer, and matches the beloved eye test as well.

Sudden goalie changes do not happen all the time for situations like this, I.e. bona-fide starter starting to struggle out of nowhere after years of consistent high level play, still well within his prime and generally better quality teammates now.

Goalies fluctuate massively, even within their peaks. I mean look at Quick. Won LA two cups, but smack dab in the middle is a season where he put up a 0.902 SV%. 2-3 year stretches of great play (which is all Andersen really has) surrounded by mediocre play is also not uncommon in the slightest. You act like he's some generational goalie. He was a backup/platoon before he came to us, and then had a great few years (mostly relative to our defense, not in the actual stats), and now seems to be struggling. I mean, maybe it's a blip and he'll go back to being great... maybe all Andersen had in him was a few good years... but what's clear is that Andersen's struggles right now are because of Andersen, not the team. He's also 31 now; not really in his "prime".

Babcock style defensive system.

Babcock didn't have a defensive system.

I didn't blame it on the coach or system, I proposed possible reasons for his play getting markedly worse under Keefe. Your so protective of anything Dubas related, it is insufferable

This has nothing to do with Dubas; that's pure deflection (and incorrect). You did blame it on the coach/system; suggesting it was because of odd-man rushes/breakaways under the Keefe system, contrary to all evidence.

 

[zeke]

He definitely tried to implement one but it didn't work for a variety of reasons. The D is better now because of personal, system and the major reason, the development of all the younger leaf players. That includes forwards.

Problem is his idea of a "defensive system" was yelling at his players to try harder.

The Leafa were instantly good defensively the moment Keefe took over for the first time in forever. That was no personnel change or player development.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

It's under goaltending...

You've claimed a lot of things. Among them, that Keefe's system creates more odd man rushes against. You brought no evidence of that. It was shown to you that we allow less scoring chances and high danger chances and our expected goals against has dropped. For some reason, that didn't matter to you, and you still attributed Andersen's decline to rush chances specifically. Rush chances specifically were shown to you, showing you to be wrong, and you wouldn't even accept those; apparently there's some super secret but unstoppable rush chances that don't show up on anything. Even when it was shown that Andersen's high danger SV% has remained similar and his decline is caused by a drop in saving lower-end shots, you still wouldn't accept it.

And then you somehow attempted to blame workload when Andersen is playing fewer games now than he was when he was doing well. You're just throwing whatever you can at the wall with no substantiation, and I'm not sure why you just can't accept Andersen is playing worse. It's the overwhelmingly obvious answer, and matches the beloved eye test as well.

Goalies fluctuate massively, even within their peaks. I mean look at Quick. Won LA two cups, but smack dab in the middle is a season where he put up a 0.902 SV%. 2-3 year stretches of great play (which is all Andersen really has) surrounded by mediocre play is also not uncommon in the slightest. You act like he's some generational goalie. He was a backup/platoon before he came to us, and then had a great few years (mostly relative to our defense, not in the actual stats), and now seems to be struggling. I mean, maybe it's a blip and he'll go back to being great... maybe all Andersen had in him was a few good years... but what's clear is that Andersen's struggles right now are because of Andersen, not the team. He's also 31 now; not really in his "prime".

Babcock didn't have a defensive system.

This has nothing to do with Dubas; that's pure deflection (and incorrect). You did blame it on the coach/system; suggesting it was because of odd-man rushes/breakaways under the Keefe system, contrary to all evidence.

Can't seem to find it on mobile so I will take a look later.

Lol I didn't ignore that the leafs have played better under Keefe. Quite the opposite. I also said that Andersen is playing worse (multiple times) and I'm wondering why that is. What is the reason his numbers have fallen off a cliff. That is a valid question and one that deserves more thought that basically saying he is just bad now.

I said that it seems like Keefe teams give up more breakaways and odd man rushes due to the style of play. You provided a rush attempts against/60, which i commented was an interesting stat, asked you where you got it and said it doesn't really quantify odd man rushes/breakaways (which it clearly doesnt). I dont get how you can say that I haven't accepted things like you know what I'm thinking. It is so frustrating trying to talk to someone like you who has preconceived notations of posters beliefs and act on things that weren't even said. Things like you saying 'the beloved eye test' is a perfect example of that. Insinuating that i don't like stats even though I probably understand their usage, limitations and derivations better than yourself.

The Quick example is a pretty bad one as his team also got much worse/started to decline at a a similar time. It wan't just him. It is the opposite for the leafs. The team has gotten better and Andersen has gotten worse. Why is that?

I suggested a reason why Andersen has struggled. You took it evidently as me blaming the coach/system and adbsolving Andersen of all blame even though I said numerous times he was playing poorly. Why do you think he has played poorly?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Problem is his idea of a "defensive system" was yelling at his players to try harder.

The Leafa were instantly good defensively the moment Keefe took over for the first time in forever. That was no personnel change or player development.

Babcock tried to force a system on a team that didn't match it stylistically. I'm not surprised that the team played much better under Keefe as it suits the roster better. Babcock also lost the dressing room which didn't help

 

[zeke]

Babcock tried to force a system on a team that didn't match it stylistically. I'm not surprised that the team played much better under Keefe as it suits the roster better. Babcock also lost the dressing room which didn't help

Which system was that?

 

[Spirit of 67]

You could also say that when your scorers don't score the team loses the series. Sometimes your goalie is great but your team does not score, the CLB series, our scorers didn't score. Andy had a great series. .936 sv% / 1.84 GAA / 3 quality starts in a 5 game series.

He got outplayed.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What is the reason his numbers have fallen off a cliff. That is a valid question and one that deserves more thought that basically saying he is just bad now.

...But he is playing worse now. That's really just a fact. You can ponder why that is all you want, but throwing a bunch of false claims at a wall, and dismissing everything that disproves those claims isn't giving extra thought to this whole situation - it's trying to create a narrative.

I said that it seems like Keefe teams give up more breakaways and odd man rushes due to the style of play.

Except you've provided zero evidence of that, and everything suggests the opposite, and even if it were true, it wouldn't be why Andersen's SV% has dropped, because his high danger SV% is relatively stable.

It is so frustrating trying to talk to someone like you who has preconceived notations of posters beliefs and act on things that weren't even said.

I don't have preconceived notions of your beliefs, and my comments have been about your statements in this thread. You are the one who started bringing your incorrect beliefs about me as a poster into this.

Things like you saying 'the beloved eye test' is a perfect example of that. Insinuating that i don't like stats even though I probably understand their usage, limitations and derivations better than yourself.

Hilarious; no you certainly do not. For the record, I said "the beloved eye test" because people in general drastically overrate the abilities of their own eyes to convince themselves of things that aren't true. Though yes, that's essentially what you're doing for your claim about Keefe's system.

The Quick example is a pretty bad one as his team also got much worse/started to decline at a a similar time.

They literally won the cup the next year.

Why do you think he has played poorly?

He just has. You're trying to make it more difficult than it has to be. There's literally nothing else that would suggest this decline, other than Andersen just playing worse. Which matches the eye test. He's slow. He's scrambling. He's off angles. He's going down quick. He's losing focus, and not tracking players/pucks as well. He's not confident. This is not the "steady Freddy" we had for much of the time in those earlier seasons. I don't know why you think that's some inconceivable thing. Quite frankly, I'd love for it to be something else, because if it was something else, it would be more fixable.

 

[crump]

I think in order to resign Andersen, it will disproportionately take away from other areas like future salary for our bigger stars or replacement pieces.

He hasn’t single handedly propelled us through a playoff series, he hasn’t consistently been a difference maker game-in-game out in the playoffs. He’s been good, don’t get me wrong, but not hot at the right time.

Jack Campbell was picked 11th overall, he isn’t some late bloomer. He was derailed by some injury problems early in his career as well as playing behind Quick.

I’m willing to bet on him based on what I’ve seen if Andersen doesn’t bring us to the finals this year.

 

[Divine]

Make Campbell the starter

 

[Suntouchable13]

I think in order to resign Andersen, it will disproportionately take away from other areas like future salary for our bigger stars or replacement pieces.

He hasn’t single handedly propelled us through a playoff series, he hasn’t consistently been a difference maker game-in-game out in the playoffs. He’s been good, don’t get me wrong, but not hot at the right time.

Jack Campbell was picked 11th overall, he isn’t some late bloomer. He was derailed by some injury problems early in his career as well as playing behind Quick.

I’m willing to bet on him based on what I’ve seen if Andersen doesn’t bring us to the finals this year.

Andersen shouldn't even be guaranteed of starting the playoffs as the #1 guy. I don't see an argument right now of re-signing Andersen to 5 or 6 mil per year.

 

[Bagge]

Go with Campbell and Hutchinson the rest of the season and trade Andersen before the deadline.

 

[RogerR]

It would be funny if Campbell is our starter next year with a 1.4 million cap hit. Clearly better than Freddy now.

 

[zeke]

It would be funny if Campbell is our starter next year with a 1.4 million cap hit. Clearly better than Freddy now.

And then find another 1-2m Campbell type to back up campbell.

 

[The Kessel Run]

Go with Campbell and Hutchinson the rest of the season and trade Andersen before the deadline.

You don't really want to run with Hutch in any serious capacity do you? What if Campbell can't handle the full work-load and falters? We'd have wasted an exceptionally promising season.

 

[Not My Tempo]

I think in order to resign Andersen, it will disproportionately take away from other areas like future salary for our bigger stars or replacement pieces.

He hasn’t single handedly propelled us through a playoff series, he hasn’t consistently been a difference maker game-in-game out in the playoffs. He’s been good, don’t get me wrong, but not hot at the right time.

Jack Campbell was picked 11th overall, he isn’t some late bloomer. He was derailed by some injury problems early in his career as well as playing behind Quick.

I’m willing to bet on him based on what I’ve seen if Andersen doesn’t bring us to the finals this year.

We just can’t afford to keep Andersen, especially during a flat cap. Hyman needs a raise this year, Rielly the next. We have no where else we can trim salary except for Kerfoot, who we might lose to expansion draft anyways. If Campbell can be an average NHL goalie, making less than 2M, you take that and run with it. With the savings you can sign a decent backup.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

He got outplayed.

He has been out played in every single series by the opposing teams goaltender...every single one. The only series where it was close was the 1st against the Caps...other than that he has not stolen a series like the BlueJackets goalie tandem did last year. He is literally the opposite of Grant Fuhr...he will kill you when you need him most. If we can see it...I guarantee you the players know it too. Its why they seem to be flat in big games after a cheap goal goes in..they almost know it's futile to even try because he will let you down.

Some people don't do well under pressure...it's just the way they are built unfortunately.

 

[Bagge]

Go with Campbell and Hutchinson the rest of the season and trade Andersen before the deadline.

On second thought...you should probably wait until you know if Campbell can stay healthy more than one game.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Which system was that?

Icing based offense supported by an interference based defense.

 

[The Beyonder]

That's a nice perimeter goal by Willy.

 

[Le Cobra]

Im not suprised that of the three leaf goalies Andersen was the only one who didn’t get a shut out against a clearly deflated EDM team. But a win is a win. Freddie is a great goalie but not elite.
from what I have seen this far, Campbell is better than Freddie. Even Clutch Hutch is playing with more stability and confidence.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Go with Campbell and Hutchinson the rest of the season and trade Andersen before the deadline.

Yeah that's a terrible idea seeing as Campbell has missed the last 5 weeks save for one game

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Im not suprised that of the three leaf goalies Andersen was the only one who didn’t get a shut out against a clearly deflated EDM team. But a win is a win. Freddie is a great goalie but not elite.
from what I have seen this far, Campbell is better than Freddie. Even Clutch Hutch is playing with more stability and confidence.

Campbell has been great but he's played 3 games let's pump the breaks, the man has played 1 game in about 5 weeks you can't hand a guy that can't stay healthy the starting job

 

[Gary Nylund]

Im not suprised that of the three leaf goalies Andersen was the only one who didn’t get a shut out against a clearly deflated EDM team. But a win is a win. Freddie is a great goalie but not elite.
from what I have seen this far, Campbell is better than Freddie. Even Clutch Hutch is playing with more stability and confidence.

Ouch. Come on now, there's no need to be like that. Everyone's playing well, be happy.

 

[saltming]

Im not suprised that of the three leaf goalies Andersen was the only one who didn’t get a shut out against a clearly deflated EDM team. But a win is a win. Freddie is a great goalie but not elite.
from what I have seen this far, Campbell is better than Freddie. Even Clutch Hutch is playing with more stability and confidence.

How so. A defensible breakdown and a rebounds straight to rnh's stick.
Which of Hutch or Campbell could stop that?
Pucks leak through Hutch all the time, that's bad, he's been good so far but he is on no way shape or firm better than Andersen. Campbell is a sound goalie, I like him, but still needs to prove he can handle the duties of a 1A goalie Buford I anoint him anything other than an amazing backup

 

[Bagge]

Yeah that's a terrible idea seeing as Campbell has missed the last 5 weeks save for one game

I know. But I was only looking at this from Andersens POV. I think he would be a lot better if he was in an environment with less pressure from the surroundings.