Sportsnet: Do We Have a #1 Goalie? All Purpose Goalie Talk

[MapleLeaf4ever]

what would you do?
commit or bridge

Going into this year and with some of the things Bernier did last year I would have said commit. Hell 2 months ago I would have said so as well. However this recent collapse has made me sit down and re-evaluate the team piece by piece. When I look at the goaltending, I am not comfortable with either of these guys on a Long term big money deal.

Bernier is a calming presence in net. However I feel his calmness is his major flaw as well as his greatest strength. He's not flashy and doesn't make the big save when needed. However one can argue he doesn't need to because he is quite technically sound.

Riemer, it's hard to separate the person from the player. He is such a great guy and the way he acted this weekend to get the team fired up to end this skid. Sure it was vs. EDM and if you go by PDO they were overdue under Horacheck. However he makes big saves when you need him too and does things to get his team going.

I don't believe either of these guys are elite goalies, I also don't believe they are backups entirely either, but I think if this team is rebuilding then they only need one. So when you ask commit or bridge, I say trade. Bernier should fetch a nice return if the goalie market heats up. STL is always looking. Minnesota may not be sold on Dubnyk, there is also EDM who needs a goalie. I keep Riemer because 1, Bernier should fetch more right now, 2, I think Riemer is a better guy to keep in the room and the team plays better infront of him, 3, I don't think the goaltending situation after acquiring Bernier was handled right. The net should have been Riemers from the start and Bernier should have had to take it from him. Bernier was given it right from the start. And lastly I am still a fan of the guy. He is difficult to hate, he came in as a Cinderella story and has always been a big happy kid in the big city. He has deserved better than Carlyle and Nonis. He has deserved better than to have his wife harassed on twitter. He has deserved better than for this organization in the post Burke era to throw him under the bus for Game 7, Last years collapse (yes he didn't exactly help the team then but we can't act like they played great in front of him). So yeah, I say trade Bernier, and keep Riemer like WPG/ATL did with Pavlic until they got Hutchinson.

 

[Eb]

Reimer is an embarrassment.

That's saying a lot considering the circumstances

From the guy who cheered when he lost his shutout bid tonight.

 

[Paradoc]

Great game by Reimer tonight. He can play pretty well when the defense isn't letting him down.

 

[Wendigo]

Reimer's our #2 and he accepts it, yet he's constantly @#$ on. He played solid tonight. Doesn't anybody recognize he's one of the few players on the team that gives a crap? On more than one occasion he's called the team out. He's more of a leader than our captain.

I was half expecting Bernier to pop onto the bench and tell the coach he was feeling better and wanted in late in the 3rd.

 

[ConnorTO]

reims would be a good #2 on a good #1 like price or whatever

however bernier as good as he is, isnt star material
so in that case just go back to the 2013 leaf roster

good times

 

[Nithoniniel]

Reimer's our #2 and he accepts it, yet he's constantly @#$ on. He played solid tonight. Doesn't anybody recognize he's one of the few players on the team that gives a crap? On more than one occasion he's called the team out. He's more of a leader than our captain.

I was half expecting Bernier to pop onto the bench and tell the coach he was feeling better and wanted in late in the 3rd.

Yeah, people are not really fair to Reimer.

I just don't understand why you can't write that without adding a lame shot against Bernier. This side-picking is ridiculous.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Yeah, people are not really fair to Reimer.

I just don't understand why you can't write that without adding a lame shot against Bernier. This side-picking is ridiculous.

Agree. I dont know if it is typical Leafs and because it was such a long time ago we had a legit #1. But every year there is two goalies that are compared to death on who is the best or who is the crappiest.

 

[horner]

Trade Bernier - injured once a yr. Great tender but fragile in body and mind.

Reimer - works his ass off never give up mentality. He would be a get mentor for a young tender.

Bibeau - I believe will be ready next yr or the yr after this. He has the heart passion and skill to be as good as bernier.

If we need to sign a fa next so be it

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Trade Bernier - injured once a yr. Great tender but fragile in body and mind.

Reimer - works his ass off never give up mentality. He would be a get mentor for a young tender.

Bibeau - I believe will be ready next yr or the yr after this. He has the heart passion and skill to be as good as bernier.

If we need to sign a fa next so be it

I could live with that. Reimer sure has had his injures as well and sign of being mentally weak. But if one has to go, keep the one you drafted and who is already signed for next year. Question is, what could we possibly get for Bernier (who I rate btw but if we rebuild, we rebuild no point in holding on to players just because you like them).

 

[thewave]

I could live with that. Reimer sure has had his injures as well and sign of being mentally weak. But if one has to go, keep the one you drafted and who is already signed for next year. Question is, what could we possibly get for Bernier (who I rate btw but if we rebuild, we rebuild no point in holding on to players just because you like them).

For Bernier I would try and get Yakapov. Won't happen but that's something see Craig thinking about.

 

[Wendigo]

Agree. I dont know if it is typical Leafs and because it was such a long time ago we had a legit #1. But every year there is two goalies that are compared to death on who is the best or who is the crappiest.

It's a thread discussing whether we have a number one goalie, if you don't expect comparisons then I'm afraid you'll be sorely disappointed. Are we supposed to talk about Bernier in a vaccum?

Furthermore, my "sidepicking" is because I personally wasn't happy about Bernier approaching the coach during the Preds game to be put back in for the sake of "the team" despite admitting he wasn't 100%. In fact, I felt the effect was the exact opposite and implies Bernier feels his less than 100% is better than Reimer's 100%. He doesn't get a pass from me on that: it makes me question whether Bernier may in fact be someone more looking out for himself than a team player.

 

[ULF_55]

They are the same age, and I believe Nonis wants Bernier to be the starter (otherwise it was a useless trade), but Bernier keeps falling on his sword.

Plays well looks great, then has one of his huge gaffs, then gets injured, and we're back to projecting Bernier rather than watching Bernier.

At this point we can only saying Reimer has done more for the team than Bernier has. I'm not saying Reimer is the better keeper, but he has taken them to the playoffs, and played in the playoffs. Bernier has not done that on any NHL team, and has what 30 minutes of playoffs experience in the net?

I would have thought that Bernier would have taken control of the position after almost 2 years, but 2 steps forward 1 step back.

I don't see how they can commit long term to Bernier after this year's performance, unless it's in the 3 million per year range, when the talk was 5+.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

It's a thread discussing whether we have a number one goalie, if you don't expect comparisons then I'm afraid you'll be sorely disappointed. Are we supposed to talk about Bernier in a vaccum?

Furthermore, my "sidepicking" is because I personally wasn't happy about Bernier approaching the coach during the Preds game to be put back in for the sake of "the team" despite admitting he wasn't 100%. In fact, I felt the effect was the exact opposite and implies Bernier feels his less than 100% is better than Reimer's 100%. He doesn't get a pass from me on that: it makes me question whether Bernier may in fact be someone more looking out for himself than a team player.

I did not say it was not worthy of a topic or a discussion. But we have had these discussions for ever and not only regarding these two goalies. And as song as we have those discussions where one is "hyped" up to be a starter and the other one is deemed crap. Well then we dont have very good discussions.
We have two more or less equally talented / flawed goalies that are both trying to prove they have a future in the NHL. I am ok with having that situation or perhaps move one out and bring something else in.
Since Reimer is "our" own I would not mind to hold on to him, simply for emotional reasons and perhaps Bernier would bring back more in a trade.

 

[Mess]

I don't see how they can commit long term to Bernier after this year's performance, unless it's in the 3 million per year range, when the talk was 5+.

Therein lies the biggest problem.

Leafs contracts and cap hits is already a mess and with the uncertainty of Bernier his next contract could result in another contract mistake by overpaying.

If Bernier had a strong season and lead the Leafs to the playoffs then the $5+ mil contract with term would be an easy decision moving forward, now you really need to go short term and play the wait and see game.

It also clouds the Reimer situation as it makes trading him more difficult if the team is not sold on Bernier due to his inconsistencies this year.

While Bernier is the better technical goalie and I'm sure he is the one the team wants to invest in, but the season really hasn't resolved anything and we are right back at the beginning.

 

[Wendigo]

Since Reimer is "our" own I would not mind to hold on to him, simply for emotional reasons and perhaps Bernier would bring back more in a trade.

I have the same opinion, but the returns for Bernier would have to be significant: I'm wary of having a goaltending crisis a la Edmonton. Our goaltending has been mediocre this year with flashes of excellence, particularly in November, but even that mediocrity is better than what Edmonton has.

With Hutchison looking like the heir apparent in Winnipeg, would it be worthwhile looking at Andrej Pavelic in some sort of trade?

 

[Bill Waters*]

Yes. Riemer. He got an almost-shutout against the oilers

 

[Daisy Jane]

i think there are a few factors to consider here.

Reimer is our own - and like him or not - when things are crappy, you know he has a limit and he will address it. He did it last year (and I did take him to task on this - and then proceeded to not play well the rest of the year, minus a few games), and he did it Friday night. (and then played amazing). this is the kind of leadership that is needed in the dressing room. [I almost don't want to put the caveat that 'it was only against Edmonton'. we're just as bad, so we shouldn't be "it was only-ing' anyone].

Both goalies have health issues. Reimer has his head, and Bernier seems to have issues with everything from the neck down. and if we're going towards a rebuild - while we 100 percent need "solid" goaltending, we also don't want to be lured into any 'amazingly good years.' (oh look we're still trying to build up our team, but we're playing amazing, and we almost..make the playoffs... maybe we should ditch this plan). we should be focusing on developing our own goalies and drafting enough that we can find our own Hutchinson (who is playing extremely well) or our own Quick.

some other factors to consider.
Edmonton - truly can not afford to be bad next year. do they give us Pittsburgh's 1st (their 2nd), for Bernier? Bernier is > Fasth + Scrivens. that is something I would consider, if we were wanting to roll with Reimer, and let the chips fall down where they may. [this is really the only team that comes to mind, because the market is so freaking soft].

the new GM. I think it's obvious that Nonis wanted Bernier to be his Luongo 2.0 (and while the potential is there, it's not like Bernier, nor the team helped either one of them achieve that goal). What if the new GM, while liking Bernier (or Reimer, equal opportunity what ifs here), decides he doesn't want either of them? (Or just wants Reimer (for the rebuild) and decides to maximize the return (again, weak market I don't know)

the team certainly did not help matters at all, but Bernier truthfully didn't help himself with matters either. it will be interesting what they do with him.

 

[yubbers]

From the guy who cheered when he lost his shutout bid tonight.

I'm tired of him and his 3.00 gaa

Can he just leave already and stop commenting on the team he asked to be traded from?

 

[Muston Atthews]

Why do I care if our goalie is home grown or not?

 

[hoglund]

Bernier has been quite disappointing this season

Still better than Reimer though

not this year.

 

[Caesium]

Therein lies the biggest problem.

Leafs contracts and cap hits is already a mess and with the uncertainty of Bernier his next contract could result in another contract mistake by overpaying.

If Bernier had a strong season and lead the Leafs to the playoffs then the $5+ mil contract with term would be an easy decision moving forward, now you really need to go short term and play the wait and see game.

It also clouds the Reimer situation as it makes trading him more difficult if the team is not sold on Bernier due to his inconsistencies this year.

While Bernier is the better technical goalie and I'm sure he is the one the team wants to invest in, but the season really hasn't resolved anything and we are right back at the beginning.

If you go short term on Bernier he is a UFA. Even a short term contract will be buying UFA years from him. Bernier was a pick up made under the assumption that he was an elite goalie and the team was primed to be a cup contender. Neither of these things turned out to be true.

I see people using the "well we have to keep or else what was the point of getting him?" card, which is a flawed way of thinking. If you invest in a stock and it tanks, you don't double down on your losing investment.

 

[Nithoniniel]

not this year.

This year too.

So far this season Bernier has the 20th best ESV% with 92.62%, a respectable number. Reimer is all the way down at 45th best with 90.64%, which is distinctly sub-par. That's among the 53 goalies with more than 500 minutes played this season.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

This year too.

So far this season Bernier has the 20th best ESV% with 92.62%, a respectable number. Reimer is all the way down at 45th best with 90.64%, which is distinctly sub-par. That's among the 53 goalies with more than 500 minutes played this season.

Reimer usually gets to play the 2nd game in a back to back when the team in front of him is tired. Dont know if that have any effect but it could have.

 

[81Reasons]

Reimer usually gets to play the 2nd game in a back to back when the team in front of him is tired. Dont know if that have any effect but it could have.

BINGO

It's not like Reimers numbers would be significantly better but it is a very safe assumption that they would be somewhat better. So if his numbers were even slightly improved by playing the first half of back to backs, and not going two weeks between starts, they would be identical to what Bernier has right now (maybe even better).

Being the number one and playing on a regular basis is a huge advantage as far as stats go (win/loss record and save %)

Furthermore coming in for relief of Bernier in the Nashville game when the team mailed it in is the only thing right now that is preventing him from having the same save % as Bernier.

The one question people are not asking is "Does Bernier really want to resign here? He was publicly embarrassed by the Mandela comments & gaff goal, this team will be in a rebuild for MANY MANY years to come without any chance of success which will definitely impact the dollar$ going into his pocket.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

For a while, it was all Bernier. Give Reimer a stretch of games, and let's see if he gets his form back
I notice that Reimer is making a real effort to try to improve his game by snuffing out rebounds and smothering the puck. That is huge. It's a large positive step for him into becoming a more reliable goalie. Keep up the progress and hard work Reimer.