Sportsnet: Do We Have a #1 Goalie? All Purpose Goalie Talk

[Jacquestrapless]

Tank-worthy effort there by Reimer

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

Tank-worthy effort there by Reimer

He saved 76% tonight.

 

[eddieO]

Reimer sucked hard tonight. My favorite moment was when he made that fluke save and the commentator said "if the Leafs come back and tie it, remember that James Reimer save".

 

[34]

Reimer sucked hard tonight. My favorite moment was when he made that fluke save and the commentator said "if the Leafs come back and tie it, remember that James Reimer save".

Bernier sucks every night too. Neither are elite #1. They are BOTH career back ups, like Bernier has been his entire career.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Reimer sucked hard tonight. My favorite moment was when he made that fluke save and the commentator said "if the Leafs come back and tie it, remember that James Reimer save".

well baring a massive move, or injury, we're going to have Bernier/Reimer round three next year so that will be interesting.

I was having a debate with someone (that we have to give Bernier big money, because a bridge takes him to UFA). again - I don't care. I will always say my views on Bernier came from the side of management - not my own personal ones, and if I were management I wouldn't give him a 5x5 deal.

His comparables are
Ben Bishop
Robin Lehner
Cory Schneider

I'd reckon.
Bishop - is surprising me, and is good. (i'd like to see him in the playoffs though).
Schneider got the contract, but considering that New Jersey is the oldest team in the league, I think once they cut some of that out he'll be good to go. (and he had starter experience)

Lehner.. meh.

and that's what Bernier is for me. He's okay. He has really good numbers and all of that good stuff - but there are a lot of other things that would make me hesitant. (shrug). I wouldn't want to commit to such an unknown for that much money. but that's my two cents.

 

[Paradoc]

So you give excuses to Schneider and say that once the team becomes better he'll become better? Why can't the same be said for Bernier/Reimer. They had to endure the lowest goal support in the history of the franchise. You can't get many wins when you are expected to get zero offensive support. I have no idea why your comparing him to Lehner since he's a prospect. He's similar to Bishop, in that they both had a brilliant season last year and are having a meh season this year. Bishop has more SO, GAA, and Wins because he plays on a better team. I think he'll get something similar to Bishop.

 

[Paradoc]

Reimer sucked hard tonight. My favorite moment was when he made that fluke save and the commentator said "if the Leafs come back and tie it, remember that James Reimer save".

Yeah, just try not to complain when people are bashing Reimer and not Bernier, when he has a bad night.

 

[Paradoc]

GAA isn't based on how many shots a team gives up?

Then explain me this: If a team gives up 100 shots, and a goalie sports a 0.950% save %; that would still be GAA of 5. Exaggerated example, I know, but yes, # of shots allowed does affect GAA.

So, taking into account save % and GAA of both goalies, it doesn't take rocket science to figure that team has allowed more shots when Reimer is in net. And before you use rebound excuse, please provide proof of Reimer's poor rebound control causing shots against to rise significantly.

You have a point, but the way you were saying it sounded like you thought GAA is calculated by the amount of shots allowed.

 

[eddieO]

Yeah, just remember not to complain when people are bashing Reimer and not Bernier, when he has a bad night.

What? I'm bashing Reimer myself. I complain when people herald Bernier as this future star with no evidence. He's had a lot of rope, an anointment actually. And has barely separated himself from Reimer.

He deserves to be bashed. Reimer, on the other hand, wasn't given the #1 role.

They're both back ups. At least with Reimer defenders, they're not deluded in thinking he deserves a 5x5.

 

[Paradoc]

What? I'm bashing Reimer myself. I complain when people herald Bernier as this future star with no evidence. He's had a lot of rope, an anointment actually. And has barely separated himself from Reimer.

He deserves to be bashed. Reimer, on the other hand, wasn't given the #1 role.

They're both back ups. At least with Reimer defenders, they're not deluded in thinking he deserves a 5x5.

Lol at the first statement. He had a .923 sv % last year. He showed he had star potential. He won more games than loses, in a team that had more losses than wins. His goaltender point share was top 5 in the league last year. His GSAA % and GA % was top ten last year. Seriously, saying he's not a future starter goaltender is one thing. But saying that with no evidence is mind boggling.

Lol at the second statement saying that Reimer wasn't given the #1 role. He was given so many chances last year, but failed every time. You got to stop making excuses for him.

And lol at the third statement. How is anyone going to take you seriously when you call both goalies back-up. Reimer can be an average starting goaltender on a solid defensive team, while Bernier is already a #1 goalie for the leafs.

 

[Paradoc]

lol, I have not given up on either goalie yet. I just answered your question on some one else behalf.

No you didn't really answered my question. You just stated your opinion with no evidence to support your claim.

 

[Daisy Jane]

So you give excuses to Schneider and say that once the team becomes better he'll become better? Why can't the same be said for Bernier/Reimer. They had to endure the lowest goal support in the history of the franchise. You can't get many wins when you are expected to get zero offensive support. I have no idea why your comparing him to Lehner since he's a prospect. He's similar to Bishop, in that they both had a brilliant season last year and are having a meh season this year. Bishop has more SO, GAA, and Wins because he plays on a better team. I think he'll get something similar to Bishop.

i'm not giving an excuse. I'm not talking simply about their play right now.
I would have to assume Schneider's contract came based on play in Vancouver, his playoff record, and his year last year, to which resulted in his contract.

and for the record, (if it were me) I wouldn't have given Bishop all his money last season, because I was rather curious if it was one of those "oh look, I had a good year, and then oops."

I - personally - do not think that Bernier should be getting a Bishop deal. I am not basing this based on "Oh, look the team is losing and Bernier looks bad." I'm not sure if Bernier is a goaltender that I would want to wrap up all that money in - if it were me, I'd like another season or two to see; especially if we were rebuilding, and I would be assuming that we'd be drafting our own goalie prospects, and signing other goalies that come up for free agency.

Bernier's tendencies for soft goals, is a concern - that - is not a result of playing in front of a team that can barely score in one month. I'm not questioning his technical play which is fine, I just don't know if Bernier is the guy i would commit to long term. Bridge deal, see what he does and then extend him later.

 

[Paradoc]

i'm not giving an excuse. I'm not talking simply about their play right now.
I would have to assume Schneider's contract came based on play in Vancouver, his playoff record, and his year last year, to which resulted in his contract.

and for the record, (if it were me) I wouldn't have given Bishop all his money last season, because I was rather curious if it was one of those "oh look, I had a good year, and then oops."

I - personally - do not think that Bernier should be getting a Bishop deal. I am not basing this based on "Oh, look the team is losing and Bernier looks bad." I'm not sure if Bernier is a goaltender that I would want to wrap up all that money in - if it were me, I'd like another season or two to see; especially if we were rebuilding, and I would be assuming that we'd be drafting our own goalie prospects, and signing other goalies that come up for free agency.

Bernier's tendencies for soft goals, is a concern - that - is not a result of playing in front of a team that can barely score in one month. I'm not questioning his technical play which is fine, I just don't know if Bernier is the guy i would commit to long term. Bridge deal, see what he does and then extend him later.

That wasn't what you said in your post. You said this "Schneider got the contract, but considering that New Jersey is the oldest team in the league, I think once they cut some of that out he'll be good to go. (and he had starter experience)".. The first sentence to me states that Schneider's play is influenced by the team in front of him. Bernier giving up softies, no matter how extreme it was, doesn't change the fact that he had zero goal support. It affects the goalie's confidence when you know you have to allow 1 goal per game to give your team a chance to win. Of course, Bernier allowing that goal in Phoenix was unacceptable, but other than that, I could not find a game where it was 100 % Bernier's fault they lost. Thus, I find that its not fair you give excuses to Schneider, but not Bernier. I would say that if you let Bernier play in front of a better team he would play a lot better. The graph 416Leafer showed, is an excellent example of that. Regarding the contract talk, Schneider did show great potential, but he played on a very good Vancouver team and did not play more than 40 games per season. That is not starter experience at all. Compared to Bernier, by the end of this season, he will have played more than 50 + games in two straight season. His sv % might be a bit lower than Schneider's, but his high sv % was as result of low games played that was unsustainable in a full 82 game season. We saw that in Bernier last year when he went from a .927 sv % pre olympic break to a .923 sv %. We saw that this year with Hutchinson and Fleury. You also bring up a good point in that he got a contract based on his limited play in the playoffs and regular season with Vancouver. Bernier has not played a single game in the playoffs. I don't think that's a good comparison with Schneider and all. That's why I said he's comparable to Bishop. It's your opinion whether or not you thought it was a bad deal for Bishop. Again, it's fine if you don't believe in Bernier. I just find it your reasoning odd with some of these goaltenders.

 

[Daisy Jane]

That wasn't what you said in your post. You said this "Schneider got the contract, but considering that New Jersey is the oldest team in the league, I think once they cut some of that out he'll be good to go. (and he had starter experience)".. The first sentence to me states that Schneider's play is influenced by the team in front of him. Bernier giving up softies, no matter how extreme it was, doesn't change the fact that he had zero goal support. It affects the goalie's confidence when you know you have to allow 1 goal per game to give your team a chance to win. Of course, Bernier allowing that goal in Phoenix was unacceptable, but other than that, I could not find a game where it was 100 % Bernier's fault they lost. Thus, I find that its not fair you give excuses to Schneider, but not Bernier. I would say that if you let Bernier play in front of a better team he would play a lot better. The graph 416Leafer showed, is an excellent example of that. Regarding the contract talk, Schneider did show great potential, but he played on a very good Vancouver team and did not play more than 40 games per season. That is not starter experience at all. Compared to Bernier, by the end of this season, he will have played more than 50 + games in two straight season. His sv % might be a bit lower than Schneider's, but his high sv % was as result of low games played that was unsustainable in a full 82 game season. We saw that in Bernier last year when he went from a .927 sv % pre olympic break to a .923 sv %. We saw that this year with Hutchinson and Fleury. You also bring up a good point in that he got a contract based on his limited play in the playoffs and regular season with Vancouver. Bernier has not played a single game in the playoffs. I don't think that's a good comparison with Schneider and all. That's why I said he's comparable to Bishop. It's your opinion whether or not you thought it was a bad deal for Bishop. Again, it's fine if you don't believe in Bernier. I just find it your reasoning odd with some of these goaltenders.

(shrug) fine, then you think it's an excuse. i truly didn't mean it as such. New Jersey for two years gave Schneider horrendous goal support, but he's played well-ish so I think his contract was based off his entire body of work. I don't think that his play will go down if the goal support goes up (especially if New Jersey keeps doing what they do and playing boring as heck hockey).

Bernier has showed he can put up good numbers in front of a gong-show defense and it looks like he tends to do better with more shots. this could be seen as an offshoot [as the team all looks horrible]. but i don't know how much "better" he'll be either , if we have a rebuilding team.

Bernier has a penchant for allowing soft goals, and for me it's not even "Oh look at the Carolina goal, hardy hah hah." "Look at the Arizona goal, teeheehee." He's got an issue with it. It was an issue enough for Kings fans to say "Bernier's known for his weak goals." Bernier himself said in an interview that it was hard to transition (which is fair), but it's there enough where it would be a concern.

I just thought of the few goaltenders that where roughly around the same situation. (I can't look at things like .gaa/sv% mostly because my mind starts melting, I can't compute them, so i go by what i hear, and read and see - and to be also fair I don't really track a lot of the other goalies as much this year as I did last). But with Bernier, statistically speaking, even taking into consideration his injuries and his play [including the overall play of the crap in front of him] - I wouldn't give him a 5x5 deal. it wouldn't surprise me if they would, but it's not something i feel that they need to do.

this was said on the radio, and I liked it.
I'd rather Bernier bet on himself like Subban. if Bernier came out and for two years flat played amazing, then by all means, give him his money, and you overpay by what, 1 million but you knew you were getting great stuff, vs.committing now, and saving a million but it ends up hurting you in the long run.

 

[Moncherry]

Bernier has been quite disappointing this season

Still better than Reimer though

 

[yubbers]

Reimer is an embarrassment.

That's saying a lot considering the circumstances

 

[Muston Atthews]

Save percentage is by far the best measure of a goalie's performance, especially compared to wins or GAA. I'd rather have a goalie that lets in 3 goals on 40 shots and loses, than one who lets in 2 goals on 20 shots and wins.

Speaking of which:

Mark Masters ‏@markhmasters 7m7 minutes ago
Bernier .892 sv% in last 11 GP dating back to Dec. 31
Reimer .921 sv% in last 7 appearances dating back to Dec. 29

I love how they how they try to pump up Optimus Reims to make him seem above average through this stretch.

Bernier last 7 games STARTED before tonight: .892 sv%, 7 losses
Reimer last 7 games STARTED before tonight: .896 sv%, 7 losses

Reimer last 7 games STARTED after tonight: .879 sv%, 7 losses

Both goalies are playing like crap, I don't know why the media was trying to hype up Reimer

 

[Gary Batman]

I love how they how they try to pump up Optimus Reims to make him seem above average through this stretch.

Bernier last 7 games STARTED before tonight: .892 sv%, 7 losses
Reimer last 7 games STARTED before tonight: .896 sv%, 7 losses

Reimer last 7 games STARTED after tonight: .879 sv%, 7 losses

Both goalies are playing like crap, I don't know why the media was trying to hype up Reimer

Both are backups and playing as such.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Both are backups and playing as such.

I wouldn't say that at all. I'd say they're playing down to the team for once.

 

[Tak7]

I wouldn't say that at all. I'd say they're playing down to the team for once.

Agreed.

Like many, they are guilty of underperforming.

The reason why people make such a big deal is because many know that they are both capable of so much better than what they are showing - especially Bernier.

Bernier's play down the stretch here + his comments about being #1 will make his contrac negotiations absolutely fascinating this summer.

The team pretty much anointed him a #1 after they traded for him, and he's fallen flat on his face with the role by and large. How that translates into Bernier's next deal, which you presume has to be a bride deal, will be fascinating.

Fwiw - I still think you bank on Bernier and his upside and potential. Still think there's more to see from him.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Agreed.

Like many, they are guilty of underperforming.

The reason why people make such a big deal is because many know that they are both capable of so much better than what they are showing - especially Bernier.

Bernier's play down the stretch here + his comments about being #1 will make his contrac negotiations absolutely fascinating this summer.

The team pretty much anointed him a #1 after they traded for him, and he's fallen flat on his face with the role by and large. How that translates into Bernier's next deal, which you presume has to be a bride deal, will be fascinating.

Fwiw - I still think you bank on Bernier and his upside and potential. Still think there's more to see from him.

what would you do?
commit or bridge

 

[thewave]

what would you do?
commit or bridge

He said Bridge. I am saying trade or bridge.

 

[Faltorvo]

what would you do?
commit or bridge

oofffff thats a good one


errr tenders are not my forte

i can never get a read on those crazy nuts , stand in
front of a 100 mph flying disc, pffff no thanks

gut says bridge


head says, for shanny to trust his tender advisor on this file.

 

[ironhorse384]

Reimer is an embarrassment.

That's saying a lot considering the circumstances

I've never been a Smilin Reims supporter but I will say this every off season he comes back a little better than the year before and I give him credit for that. ie: catching the puck after the boston series, last summer worked on strength and conditioning. He still has deficiencies but he is one of those guys that works to improve his game. Whether or not he can become a no.1 who knows but at least he does try to get better each year.

 

[Bill Waters*]

Riemer played alright last night