Discussion: Will Tom Sestito Make The Team?

[Jimson Hogarth*]

True but it did help that their Norris trophy dman can KO pretty much anyone, along with big bruising power forward Lucic.

Yea I don't think there is a guy on the Canucks roster who could take on Chara or Lucic.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

True but it did help that their Norris trophy dman can KO pretty much anyone, along with big bruising power forward Lucic.

And they can play hockey too... That's the key, having a face puncher who can play. It's why Benning brought in Dorsett

 

[hlrsr]

You have a major problem with your team if a 2-5 minute goon provides a presence that changes the way the team plays

It might be hard to convey what I'm trying to say. I am not saying that his presence actually changes the way they play in a significant, meaningful, and positive way. To be clear, I don't want Sestito or any other one-dimensional goon on the team.

I'm saying that as a team, I can see how they may "feel" as though guys like Sestito add to their toughness, if only from a "puffing up their chests", purely psychological kind of way. And I don't mean our team specifically either.

Again, I agree he's actually useless.

 

[biturbo19]

I know you're making a point, bit. But Tanner Glass listed as a tough guy, or even a decent player, amuses me, a lot.

I mean, it's laughable to an extent, but then...that's the kind of "tough guy" this team rolled with when they were good. And he's far from a great player, but he's lot more decent than a guy like Sestito. He's a 4th liner who can handle twice the minutes (aka a regular 4th line shift) and contribute to other areas of the game (defensive zone starts, PK). The sort of things you want your 4th line to be able to do in this day and age.

The point being Glass played on the highest scoring team in the league and put up less production than Sestito on the 28th best scoring team in the league.


This thread has become less and less about Sestito and more and more about the role of an enforcer in the game.

It's not even really Canucks related anymore. Looks like general hockey discussion to me.

How did Sestito "out produce" Tanner Glass last year? Having 5 goals instead of 4, while still producing less points? And it's not as though Glass was part of the "high scoring" part of that Penguins team...he didn't play with Crosby and Malkin at all really, so referring to his role as part of that high scoring team as an advantage isn't exactly taking context into account. Whereas Sestito actually did get to play with some more offensive-minded players at times, which is where most of his goals seemed to come from.

And in any case, when one player is playing TWICE as many minutes, including actual PK time, that's the difference in an actual 4th line player (though admittedly not a great one) and a "goon" like Sestito.

And that's where it does become a more general discussion on the role of the enforcer on NHL teams today. Because that's what Sestito is...and whether he's on the roster or not comes down to deciding whether or not that's a role they want to have on the roster.

True but it did help that their Norris trophy dman can KO pretty much anyone, along with big bruising power forward Lucic.

That's the thing. This team isn't going to be one of the "toughest" teams out there because we don't have those elements of a #1D who is an enormous angry mutant, or a lunatic like Lucic playing in our top-6.

But trying to patch that with a 5 minute a night "goon" like Sestito is like a band-aid on a gunshot wound.

 

[Nordiques1979]

Orr, Mclaren, Biznasty, Parros, Janssen, Rosehill, Konopka, Westgarth, Asham, Barch.... It's clearly the end of an area.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Orr, Mclaren, Biznasty, Parros, Janssen, Rosehill, Konopka, Westgarth, Asham, Barch.... It's clearly the end of an area.

All these guys are old. Younger cheaper alternatives out there.

 

[alternate]

You think Sestito will only play 3-8 games this year?

People will get hurt and if Sestito is here for the whole year he'll play 40-50 games.

And he DID hurt the team in his minutes last year - probably cost the team +/- 6-8 goals which is fairly significant for a team on the borderline of the playoffs.

I hope you're right about Benning/Desjardins. They're saying the right things about goons ... but until they actually put that into practice I'll wait and see.

I meant to say 200-500 minutes. 20-50 games, but only if he shows he can handle a regular 4th line shift. As you say, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[biturbo19]

I meant to say 200-500 minutes. 20-50 games, but only if he shows he can handle a regular 4th line shift. As you say, we'll have to wait and see.

He certainly didn't show that last year. In fact, he showed that he was a liability playing a non-regular 4th line shift @ ~6 minutes a night.

Players can improve...but we're talking about a 27 year old lacking some critical tools, with 134 NHL games under his belt. I don't really think there's much more "upside" left there.

People are quick to point to his one good CHL season where he outsized children to the tune of 40-some goals, but that legacy and his sheer size are his only real tools.

Heck, if we want that...we could nab ourselves one free Steve Bernier on waivers today, who is similarly a "big" player who scored a lot in Juniors and has some okayish hands...can also play a more effective hockey game. A more effective forechecker, less clueless defensively, can PK a bit, a guy who has netted 15g/30pts multiple times in the NHL...plays twice the minutes a guy like Sestito has ever managed.

People hate Bernier because of his contract when he was here, but for $350k LESS than Sestito, i take that all day. Literally the ONLY thing he is worse than Sestito at, is fighting other enforcers. It always boils down to that...fighting other "goons" is the ONLY reason to keep Sestito on the roster. And it's a bad reason.

 

[absolute garbage]

@benkuzma
Desjardins on Sestito: "It's more than that (fighting), you have to be able to play — you have to be able to do both." #canucks

Sestito's spot on this team is very precarious. It won't take much for them to pick someone else up and waive Sestito IMO.

Gotta say, Willie D and Benning fit together nicely: neither of them ever say anything worthwhile (not that it matters in a coach as much as in GM). At least Torts had that going for him, too bad there wasn't much else. Let's hope Willie is the opposite of that.

Some of the lineup decisions are troubling but I'm not sure if it's all coach's decision here. Playing Sbisa over Stanton is hilariously bad and Sestito of course has been useless. While I realize he was bad for the team, I actually liked Sestito at times last season when Torts was able to light a fire under his ass and he was running around like a mad man. That hasn't been the case here when he's supposed to fight for a spot on the roster and for a player like that, it's unacceptable. There's a lot of possible waiver pickups who would be a significant upgrade right now.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

So long as Sestito sees a quick exit once Horvat returns and/or he plays good awful. I can stomach him on the roster for a few games. My only concern is if they just keep him around and scratch Richardson/Matthias or send Bo back just to give Sestito a spot.

 

[Free Edler]

Yea I don't think there is a guy on the Canucks roster who could take on Chara or Lucic.

Same can be said for nearly every team in the league.

When Chara and Lucic fight, they don't throw down with donkeys like Tom Sestito. Sestito prevents exactly nothing from happening to star Canucks players. He is the product of an era that is ending and will be over in the next couple seasons as GMs realize having a guy who can't competently play hockey on their roster is a waste.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Same can be said for nearly every team in the league.

When Chara and Lucic fight, they don't throw down with donkeys like Tom Sestito. Sestito prevents exactly nothing from happening to star Canucks players. He is the product of an era that is ending and will be over in the next couple seasons as GMs realize having a guy who can't competently play hockey on their roster is a waste.

Case in point. Had Bieksa drawn Marchand into a fight. Does anyone actually think that would stop him from being a pest in our cup final? The only way a fight benefits us, is if Sestito can actually get Lucic or any other good player to thrown down, which isn't often.

 

[Nordiques1979]

All these guys are old. Younger cheaper alternatives out there.

Who??

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

All these guys are old. Younger cheaper alternatives out there.

Orr, Mclaren, and Janssen were cut and their teams kept players who aren't enforcers.

Rosehill was cut while Rinaldo was kept. Rinaldo has a higher cap hit but is younger. Rinaldo can also play an energy 4th line role, while Rosehill is a plug goon.

The rest don't have contracts.

 

[Jyrki21]

Not sure Kassian should be fighting a ton, and Dorsett can't police the entire other team. Thats why team toughness is so important. In its absence you need a guy like Sestito.

Forget goons for a second -- how do hockey fights police anything? They happen after the fact (half the time following plays that weren't even dirty or intentional), and we still have "crime" in the game despite decades of constant "policing" in this manner.

 

[Ryp37]

Case in point. Had Bieksa drawn Marchand into a fight. Does anyone actually think that would stop him from being a pest in our cup final? The only way a fight benefits us, is if Sestito can actually get Lucic or any other good player to thrown down, which isn't often.

It's not about goading them into the fight, it's about answering them physically and letting them know they can't be running around like that

Take the Edmonton game in which Horvat was injured, they were bullying the Canucks around the ice finishing every check in the first half then Sestito went off on his penalty box merry-go-round the game calmed down and Vancouver scored two

Problem with Sestito is his emotion gets the best of him and he takes too many unnecessary penalties (such as the obvious goaltender contact he made when leaving the box) he also got lucky that punch he threw wasn't something more. If Sestito could harness the impulse meathead things he does when he gets mad I believe he' a great deterrent that teams hate to play against

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

For me it's protection against retaliation for your own mistakes.

Look at Backlund when he slammed old mate into the boards the other night. After that he's got a target. Does he have a smaller target because McGrattan's on his team? Probably.

It didn't stop the initial play, but it could prevent on-going incidents.

Or not.

 

[arsmaster*]

Looks like Boston is carrying an enforcer.

32 year old journey man to boot. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=67749

ZERO NHL games ever, and over 700 PIM's in his last 3 seasons.

 

[DennisReynolds]

You know what the real problem with Sesito is? He can't even kill penalties.

 

[Barney Gumble]

or a lunatic like Lucic playing in our top-6.

Hopefully Kassian at some point in his career.

 

[Pip]

Even though I think it would be a terrible mistake, I think Sestito stays on our roster. Despite everything said about enforcers by Willie and company, I think they're going to have a dedicated goon

 

[IntangiBo]

Forget goons for a second -- how do hockey fights police anything? They happen after the fact (half the time following plays that weren't even dirty or intentional), and we still have "crime" in the game despite decades of constant "policing" in this manner.

We have crime in the real world despite laws too. Time to get rid of them!

 

[arsmaster*]

How did Sestito "out produce" Tanner Glass last year? Having 5 goals instead of 4, while still producing less points? And it's not as though Glass was part of the "high scoring" part of that Penguins team...he didn't play with Crosby and Malkin at all really, so referring to his role as part of that high scoring team as an advantage isn't exactly taking context into account. Whereas Sestito actually did get to play with some more offensive-minded players at times, which is where most of his goals seemed to come from.

I'm talking about the Tanner Glass that played in Vancouver, the one that played on the highest scoring team in the league and scored 3 goals and 10 points. I think Tommy would have put up more points on that team by osmosis, than the non-goon Glass, who isn't nearly as talented.

Tanner Glass hasn't put up more than 15 goals EVER, at any recognized level of hockey. He's basically the same useless plug that you're making Sestito out to be, but because he can skate he has a job. He still has to fight to hold his job and it horrible at it.

Can't get this out of my head:

 

[Pip]

We have crime in the real world despite laws too. Time to get rid of them!

The NHL has a set of laws

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/pdfs/2012-13_RuleBook.pdf

And people who enforce them

http://www.nhlofficials.com

Goons are more vigilantes than anything. You really need to stop with this horrible analogy

 

[ddawg1950]

Part of the problem is that our goon does not strike fear into the heart of anyone.

Having said that, clearly the need for one becomes less and less as more teams move away from having one.